Thats a 7.62x39mm round the round the AK47 uses (M43), NOT what the Mosin Nagant uses or has ever used.
Good catch. My mistake. As I said, I'm far from an expert, and I've never shot a Nagant.
The Nagant fires 7.62x54mmR. Honest mistake.
This game needs more weapon sway. Period. Debate over. Seriously, like it or not, there isn't a realistic amount of weapon sway. Add a bit more, and there will be. You can sit here and argue that there is enough sway, but could you pull off some of the shots you do in this game, IRL, even at a range? Sure, sit and camp a min or two and shot a guy that walks into your line of fire, but then you see someone off in the distance that is about 75m away. It only takes a second or two to get a headshot no matter how you have to adjust yourself.
EDIT: I need to stop making these superposts. I'm starting to lose people I'm responding too in the mess.
Says you. The vast majority of other people seem pretty happy with it.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=907245&postcount=43
Actually I can deny this
One of the worse mistakes you can make as a designer (and I am assuming you're a designer if your hanging out in the level design forums) is to assume that "everyone" feels the same way as you do. A small but vocal group of people on a gaming forum does not constitute "everyone". We made this mistake back in the early RO days. There was a feature in the game (I can't remember what it was) but "everyone" on the forums said they wanted it changed. Every time there was a poll 90%+ of people would say that they wanted it changed. So we listened to "everyone" and changed it. Guess what happened. As it turns out the real "everyone" (as in the masses playing the game) actually liked it how it was ORIGINALLY before we changed it. There was outrage in the general RO community, and a rash of people coming to the forums to express that they loved the feature the way that it was, and wanted it changed back. As it turned out about 90% of the people playing the game liked it and didn't want it changed.
Also, I just want to say that your experience with firearms does not equal combat experience, nor does your childhood reading training manuals. Besides, that is irrelevent to the debate anyway.
And I never claimed it to equal combat experience. He was asking where I was making my assertions from, and I told him. I'm no expert, and I never claimed to be. However, I have applied a lot of the stuff we're talking about here to meatspace, not just in a game.
I can see sprinting then trying to aim as something that doesn't happen with great results often, but thats not all the "BS" shots people are seeing. Take for example: I'm slowly walking around a corner with my sights up, see an enemy at about 60m-80m away, then a second later, I kill him. Not even crouching, although if I was crouching, then it would be harder to move with the sights up anyway. Try doing that as quickly as you can in-game, IRL. Good luck with that. Another example, I move to cover, but before I get there, I see a guy, same distance away. I ADS, stand up and kill him within less than a second, and I'm back down again. Even under mg fire. Literally within a second, I can peek around corners, cover or what-have-you and still be stable enough to get a 75m shot within 1-2 seconds. I play airsoft, which has much lower ranges, and I train almost constantly to pull of shots at 120' with that speed. It's down right impossible for the average soldier to accomplsih, much less EVERYONE. Increased weapon sway would add 2-3 seconds to all of those shots, or require you to shoot again since you missed. That would remove the unrealistic, and dare I say without getting flamed to death, CoD feel to this damn realistic shooter.
Forgive me if I don't see snapping off 50m shots with a rifle that unbalanced. Maybe CoD has spoiled us into thinking that all weapons are useless outside of 50 yards unless they're sniper rifles.
I have played airsoft, and it does require quite a bit of training to hit anything outside of 25 yards. However, let's do a quick comparison:
Most Airsoft guns are capable of shooting from 50 m/s (160 ft/s) to 125 m/s (410 ft/s), although it is also possible to purchase upgraded internals for some Airsoft guns that will enable up to 210 m/s (690 ft/s) projectile velocities.
[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsofthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft
Muzzle velocity Light ball, ~ 865 m/s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin_naganthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin_nagant
A rifle is launching a projectile over 4x the speed of the most high-powered airsoft weapons on the market. It's apples and oranges here.
Okay so back at this thread I suppose. Believe whatever whoever you want - this after all the internut - but lets talk shop here.
To those saying 100m shots are easy - even in off hand, and even for new shooters - that's not true at all. You'd be surprised what people can actually do with a rifle once they get out to a range. I get it, "but its only 100 meters and a person is a big target", thats great. You're talking a whole human body - clear shot through and through. Now even in that scenario you're looking at needing a hit in the head (T-box) or roughly center of mass, both of those sections are at or less than a 8'' circle. "But 8'' is really big! Especially at only 100m!" No its really not, especially when offhand (standing) and especially when not on a calm range. You can not reduce weapon sway to none - and what I've noticed in game is that standard ADS is what the sway should be like when you hold that little "focus" button and zoom in.
I hear what you're saying, and I agree. However, as I've said, making a snap shot at 50 meters doesn't require absolute precision when aiming for center mass. Maybe it's because I've done it all my life, but I can reasonably hit a milk jug at 50 yards with pretty respectable speed. I don't see folks in-game making snap shots out to 100m. I just don't. Maybe I'm playing on servers with bad players who can't aim right, but it seems plenty hard enough to hit an enemy in-game from 100m without cover and resting. I've never had a running soldier snap-shoot me from over 50 meters, and more often than not snap shots happen at 25 meters or less, when we bump into each other at very close range.
I can't do it, I don't see other players doing it. I feel like I'm arguing against this hyperbolic myth of super human aimbot robot quickscoping, and nobody wants to provide proof that it happens as often as they say it does.
To those saying "I was in the military and we qualified out to X-hundred yards/meters". Yah I get it, qualifying and range shooting is a lot easier on the shooter than combat shooting or even joint qualifying where multiple shooters are on the line and shooting at the same time. In fact the US Military (DoD) did a study, the same study saying that most combat happened within 300m, showed that even as close as 100 and 200m soldiers (first they tested expert marksmen and then green straight from basic) had trouble hitting targets consistently and this was amplified when more than one person was shooting at the same time. Qualifying is not combat shooting, its a different type of everything. Nerves aren't shot, you're often not tired for a qual, you usually qual from a prone or prone assistance position, and even your stance changes. Look at the 'rattle battles' that happen around the USA such as Camp Perry events. These guys can make their hits at 200/300/600yds with Garands, M1917s, whatever you name it. But they also 'game' it. They wear special coats, special glasses, special gloves, special everything to make sure they maximize their ability and even doing all of that doesn't create zero "sway". If you've qualified and have also seen combat you know what I'm talking about. If you've qualified with a rifle and then worked a desk or ran a truck you may not.
Why do I think I'm right? Well what is right? Do I think the game needs more 'sway'? - Yes. Do I play the game right now anyways? - Yes. Is it a good game without adding more sway? - Yes. All I (and some others are saying) is that it is as about as realistic as having MKBs all over the place.
I've shot and trained with current Marines, US Army, NYPD vice units, Homeland Security Units, WW2 Veterans, Vietnam Veterans, and many more. I have access to most of the guns in this game and shoot them on a regular basis. I'm not just someone who knows about guns from reading but I run firearms on a regular basis.
You can check some videos of what I do here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/mini4m3http://www.youtube.com/user/mini4m3
I understand exactly what I'm saying and why I'm saying. Please do not believe everything you read online because as we can see from this thread its a lot of poop.
Absolutely, and I've made the disclaimer several times that I'm no expert. I've been around gun experts, and I've absorbed most of the basics, but all I really know after hanging out with them is that I don't know **** about guns. I'm a hobbyist, a weekend shooter, someone who isn't concerned with getting the best performance out of his guns or gathering data on his performance. What I do is basically piddling. I drag my Mossberg out to an open field a few times a month with a box of clays and reduce them to dust. I've been hunting a few times with friends and relatives with borrowed rifles. I own a Browning bolty that was given to me, and to be honest I can't even tell you the exact model number, because I'm really not that in to all the specifics.
That being said...
No offense (I hate when people say that because its so cliche) but you're quite wrong. You didn't even know what round the Mosin Nagant fired and you look like you've never seen a gun before holding that M11/9.
Please don't be a douche. You seem like someone that might know what they're talking about. I may not be an expert by any strech of the imagination, and I never claimed to be. From the very beginning I have said that all of my assertions are based on my personal experiences with firearms and playing around in psudo-war stuff like paintball. Never once have I ever claimed to be professionally trained, or an expert in the field. However, I did grow up among a serious gun-culture. While my family didn't let me own guns till I was old enough to buy them myself, I grew up shooting with friends, relatives, and neighbors. I may not know all the ins and outs, but I can handle a firearm with a fair bit of skill, and I've shot dozens of different makes, models, and styles in my 20 years on this earth.