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9mm: A compromise between ammo and damage

flashn00b

Active member
Feb 1, 2011
677
35
28
Noticing a fair amount of complaints about the 9mm not having enough ammo despite the fact that you can decapitate clots now. Maybe a compromise between damage and ammo is required?

9mm Pistol
Perks: Commando, Field Medic, Berserker, Support, Demolitionist, Firebug, Gunslinger, Sharpshooter, SWAT, Survivalist (9mm will benefit from ALL perk skills and passives)
Damage: 15
Max Ammo: 15 + 165
Starting Ammo: 15 + 75

Field Medic and Survivalist
Both perks have a hidden damage bonus for the 9mm specifically (34% for Medic, 19% for Survivalist). This is so that both perks CAN decapitate clots (Survivalist will have to wait until he's Level 25 however, as the 19% damage bonus is to stack with the 15% Neutral weapon damage bonus)

Commando
Fallback: 9mm damage bonus decreased to 25%, knife damage unchanged.
Hollow Point Rounds: Has a hidden -15% penalty to the 9mm pistol specifically, effectively making the skill give a 30% damage bonus to Assault rifles, while the 9mm pistol only gets a 15% damage bonus.

SWAT
Close Combat Training: 9mm damage bonus decreased to 25%. He'll still start with Dual 9mms

What this will mean in practice
At a glance, it seems like i'm suggesting that we get the old 9mm again with less ammo than release, but more ammo than 15+75. However, my suggestion also entails that the 9mm counts as a perk weapon for all perks, rather than simply being an off-perk weapon. If we're to look at a Level 25 Commando, my proposed changes would do this (Assuming RLLLR)

High Capacity Magazines: Magazine size of 22
9mm base damage: 15
Perk Weapon Damage: 3.75
Fallback: 3.75
Hollow Point Rounds: 4.5
HP Rounds (9mm damage penalty) -2.25
Total 9mm Damage as a Level 25 Commando with relevant skills: 24.75

Or if we're to look at the 9mm dealing as much damage as humanly possible, let's look at the Demolitionist

Base Damage: 15
Perk Weapon Damage: 3.75
Bombardier: 3.75
High Impact Rounds: 3.75
Armor Piercing Rounds: 7.5 on Headshot
Total Damage: 22.5 on Bodyshot, 30 on headshot.

Suddenly, the Demo has a free Varmint Rifle. I could probably list how my 9mm suggestion would affect other perks (i.e: 9mm benefitting from Vampire and Smash) but i think i made my point pretty clear.
 
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Zilltoid Mosntre

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 4, 2019
27
2
3
32
Canada
Changing the 9mm pistol. erhm why in hell? Its a sidearm. You can also kill fleshpound and scrake with it, if it's the last thing standing the knife work to!
Being more felt when its upgraded all the way to tier five. Would probly be its best bet. But then again... it's a weightless sidearm.
The worse part is that it ain't droped on death or doesn't stay inventory after death. All you need to do is to stay alive ...
But that is my opinion on it. Nothing to be remembered haha.

Its already afftected by class perk. It just has to say "perk weapon" and not a specific like explosive and flame ,unless the specific implies 9mm.
The best way to find out for sure is finding a server or hosting one. With a damage viewer added "damage display".
Or test it with various zed without having the same perk layout on the next wave to see the difference.
 

flashn00b

Active member
Feb 1, 2011
677
35
28
Changing the 9mm pistol. erhm why in hell? Its a sidearm. You can also kill fleshpound and scrake with it, if it's the last thing standing the knife work to!
Being more felt when its upgraded all the way to tier five. Would probly be its best bet. But then again... it's a weightless sidearm.
The worse part is that it ain't droped on death or doesn't stay inventory after death. All you need to do is to stay alive ...
But that is my opinion on it. Nothing to be remembered haha.

Its already afftected by class perk. It just has to say "perk weapon" and not a specific like explosive and flame ,unless the specific implies 9mm.
The best way to find out for sure is finding a server or hosting one. With a damage viewer added "damage display".
Or test it with various zed without having the same perk layout on the next wave to see the difference.
People seem to love to complain about the 9mm. Either it doesn't do enough damage or it doesn't have enough ammo.

And the only times perk selection affects the 9mm is if you pick a skill with faster reloads, are a Commando with Fallback, a SWAT with Close Combat Training or a Gunslinger with Bone Breaker. Making it a perk weapon means that you'd be able to use skills to boost the 9mm's damage like Hollow Point Rounds (Commando), Butcher (Berserker), Salvo (Support), etc. Pretty much, my suggestion involves bringing back the old 9mm before the decrease in ammo except make it so that generic damage bonuses will now apply to the 9mm, rather than require 9mm specific damage bonuses.
 

Azukki

Grizzled Veteran
Jul 7, 2009
1,502
126
63
When they buffed 9mm to decap clots/etc with base damage just before they added the upgrade system, that was a missed opportunity, I think.

My simple suggestion is 17 damage, 150 total max rounds.
With the headshot bonus and rounding, that's 19 damage to heads. That way, even the slightest benefit would make 9mms good. Slinger, Sharp, Comm, SWAT, and now even mid-level Survivalist could all make 9mm work well for free. But for the small price of the first upgrade, anyone could make it into a good weapon.
 

Zilltoid Mosntre

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 4, 2019
27
2
3
32
Canada
A second buyable upgrade on weapon that gives more ammo capacity. Making them weight more has a compromise.
It should be another thread but...

Unless your all complaining about the first wave 9mm stat... And even then, it's only applicable on HoE. With a low skilled team that can't do a proper headshot. Which all died. AND even then, hey pals... You got a knife. Two leg. Go find an ammo crate or a spawned weapon laying somewhere.
I would loooove to go on. But I will be mean. Very... . Not the point right. Must be constructive:

6 Players/ Wave 1 /HOE
HS-critical weakspot (not in event)


Clot/crawler/stalker = 1-2 bullets
gorefast/EDDAR/HUSK = 2-3 bullets
bloat/siren = 4-5 bullets
gorefiend/rioter = 10bullets-clip.
QP = no idea (sad cause they can spawn)
SC = no idea
FP = no idea

I see no problem with he 9mm sidearm on wave 1
rioter? knife
gorefiend? Bash/Parry then knife, rince repeat.
bloat? Bash/Knife
siren? Bash

Upgrading the 9mm for which perk?
Firebug? How in hell would he even need a sidearm. That class can do the wave 1 on his own.
Zerker? Litterly can kill everything with a crovel.
Medic? use the knife...
Demo? Don't waste ammo and be perceptive.
Survivalist? melee perk use knife..
Gunslinger? Plenty of ammo with the revolver already.
Sharpshooter? Inbuild class capacity.
Commando/Swat? Perk for 9mm and knife.

Level 0 ye I would agree on this. Everything is bad at that point. Still no need to play on HoE. Unless you want a real challenge.