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I hate this!

Bigger maps and more players is better but right now 64 is the most feasible, when the third Red Orchestra come sout 5 years from now maybe it'll have maps twice as huge with 100 players per map and a company CO who commands several platoon commanders and can call in air strikes.

Or it will be another MW2 clone with slight variations, we'll see....
 
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nope, people fight for the same one objective, and that part of the map gets too crowded, and the rest feels too open and empty.

so, there is too much walking at one point, and then you enter a crowded area that is a complete stalemate of camping... the more players in one place, the harder is to advance.

Maybe they can have multiple objectives at once, or maybe the players can be not stupid and have some stay back to give cover or hold the surrounding area.
 
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lately, in most maps, RO is like a big battlefield, slowly pushing forward in a big open map

back in the mod, RO felt much more tactical, where choosing your path, how, where and when to attack was more important. Trying to attack the objectives that were less defended, and from there trying to ambush the enemies.

It was more of a squad or individual based gameplay, where the actions of 1 or 2 players really mattered. Rostov, and Koitos with 32 players were a good example of it.

Now it just feels too much like Konigsplatz, one big front that moves, and your actions have minimal consequences. No thinking, just pushing forward and pray.

With many players, every objective will be heavily defended and the combat will be much more stale, as you'll have fire from every direction, all the time, making it much harder to advance.

Maybe is just me, but I find the old gameplay more fun.
 
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lately, in most maps, RO is like a big battlefield, slowly pushing forward in a big open map

back in the mod, RO felt much more tactical, where choosing your path, how, where and when to attack was more important. Trying to attack the objectives that were less defended, and from there trying to ambush the enemies.

It was more of a squad or individual based gameplay, where the actions of 1 or 2 players really mattered. Rostov, and Koitos with 32 players were a good example of it.

Now it just feels too much like Konigsplatz, one big front that moves, and your actions have minimal consequences. No thinking, just pushing forward and pray.

With many players, every objective will be heavily defended and the combat will be much more stale, as you'll have fire from every direction, all the time, making it much harder to advance.

Maybe is just me, but I find the old gameplay more fun.

Thats just how war is, maybe some maps will be designed differently and of course there will be smaller servers.
 
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Thats just how war is, maybe some maps will be designed differently and of course there will be smaller servers.

I'm just saying that I miss the old gameplay, and that RO:Ost lost it with the choice of maps and the increase of player count, thats all.

Whatever direction TWI decides to take with HOES is up to them, but I still feel the need to write my opinion in this matter.

And my opinion is that not everyone want huge maps with lots of players, and some people prefer close combat fighting than long range fighting.
 
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lately, in most maps, RO is like a big battlefield, slowly pushing forward in a big open map

back in the mod, RO felt much more tactical, where choosing your path, how, where and when to attack was more important. Trying to attack the objectives that were less defended, and from there trying to ambush the enemies.

It was more of a squad or individual based gameplay, where the actions of 1 or 2 players really mattered. Rostov, and Koitos with 32 players were a good example of it.

Now it just feels too much like Konigsplatz, one big front that moves, and your actions have minimal consequences. No thinking, just pushing forward and pray.

With many players, every objective will be heavily defended and the combat will be much more stale, as you'll have fire from every direction, all the time, making it much harder to advance.

Maybe is just me, but I find the old gameplay more fun.

And now you've written yourself why I'll personally pretty certainly will continue to prefer Territory over Countdown. In countdown you need an increased focus due to limited active soldiers which limits paths and choices in how to attack especially with the time limit that forces people to attack nearly head on.

For instance in countdown you will only have 1 cap zone open at the same time and limited time, meaning that enemy movement will be highly predictable.

Focus is important, to keep the game action packed but for me I prefer a game where there is slightly less focus and more freedom to move around and surprise the enemy. Which is why I hope that different maps truly offer game play for different focus types. For instance with fallen heroes it was loads more fun in my opinion when all 3 center capzones were open at all time.

Its one of the reasons why in all fps games clan matches are generally run with lower player amounts than with public matches. As otherwise it gets too crowded, with for instance every entrance covered by multiple people. Which is why I expect that with ROHOS the 16 player map scale will be used competitive for 4v4, and the 32 map scale will be used competitive for 8v8.
 
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And now you've written yourself why I'll personally pretty certainly will continue to prefer Territory over Countdown. In countdown you need an increased focus due to limited active soldiers which limits paths and choices in how to attack especially with the time limit that forces people to attack nearly head on.

For instance in countdown you will only have 1 cap zone open at the same time and limited time, meaning that enemy movement will be highly predictable.

Focus is important, to keep the game action packed but for me I prefer a game where there is slightly less focus and more freedom to move around and surprise the enemy. Which is why I hope that different maps truly offer game play for different focus types. For instance with fallen heroes it was loads more fun in my opinion when all 3 center capzones were open at all time.

Its one of the reasons why in all fps games clan matches are generally run with lower player amounts than with public matches. As otherwise it gets too crowded, with for instance every entrance covered by multiple people. Which is why I expect that with ROHOS the 16 player map scale will be used competitive for 4v4, and the 32 map scale will be used competitive for 8v8.

I kinda agree with countdown there, but lets see how they make it in the end, it will have its advantages and disadvantages I suppose.

About the map scales: due to the layout of most maps in RO:CA, it had that "clanny" feel even in public servers:

More objectives, and less exposure to the "open" battlefield. For example, lets compare old Koitos with new Konigsplatz.

In Konigsplatz with 50 players, you are pretty much exposed to 25 enemies camping across the field all the time (with a tank or 2). There is not much you can do here, surviving is more luck than skill, just pray that your team is better and manages to advance.

In Koitos with 32 players, you chose your route, you have your personal little fights, and concentrate in them, if you are fighting for the radio house, you don't have to worry about the snipers in the apartment, they have their own fights.

You also know that due to the lower player count, whatever objective you are attacking, the bulk of enemy players in one area wont be an impossible obstacle that will completely lock your movements. And if there are too many, you know that other objectives will be less defended.

What I'm hoping for this game, is that whatever the player count is in the server, maps escalates well and keep a decent number of objectives active at a time to avoid linearity. 3 objectives for 30 players is reasonable IMO (10 players per objective).

Also, those objectives should be more independent from each other, like in RO:CA, when you felt that fighting for one objective or the other could make you feel like fighting in a completely different map. It just feels good to be able to choose the objective you like the most, instead of just slamming the same brick wall with your head over and over again.



Edit: I'm not really against bigger maps, what I'm against is what people mean with bigger maps:

If there was a Koitos with 2 more objectives and 3 more streets for an increased player count, that could be an interesting bigger map. But with bigger maps, people mean Berezina, with 2 more Kilometers long, and that's exactly what I don't want.

Edit 2: I really look forward to the grain elevator map, even if its lineal, that close indoors combat looks like is gonna bring back some of the old RO feel
 
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There should be 4 different map types....

Smaller tactical maps that rely on the skill of individual soldiers.

Big maps with lots of concentrated fighting that would rely more on the skill of commanders.

Big maps with spread out fighting, that would be more steadily paced and rely on a mix of command and individual skill.

And of course tank maps :IS2:
 
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As fun as the old days were with 32 player limits (and often not nearly so many on at once), I definitely feel the player number boost improves game play. So perhaps it limits what one man alone can do... but that's what war is. The reality is war is messy, and you can be sure battlefields were "overcrowded" at key points as one side tried to push through the lines. You just have to take a step back, and view it more as a team experience rather than a chance to rambo it up and clear those objectives single handedly old style.

In the mod days, if I saw 16 players on a server I jumped in it. Now if I see a server with 16 players.. I skip it and find one with 40+ in it. The bar has been raised.
 
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So perhaps it limits what one man alone can do... but that's what war is. The reality is war is messy, and you can be sure battlefields were "overcrowded" at key points as one side tried to push through the lines. You just have to take a step back, and view it more as a team experience rather than a chance to rambo it up and clear those objectives single handedly old style.

Taking out the concept of individual, takes out with it a lot of sense of accomplishment and reward for your efforts. Yes, war is that way, but if I'm playing a game I want it to make me feel good.

I really miss being Rambo in RO:CA
 
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Bigger maps and more players is better but right now 64 is the most feasible, when the third Red Orchestra come sout 5 years from now maybe it'll have maps twice as huge with 100 players per map and a company CO who commands several platoon commanders and can call in air strikes.

Or it will be another MW2 clone with slight variations, we'll see....

I don't think 64 is hard coded into the dedi files. If they were, we wouldn't see 50, 53, and at one point, on the 29th server, a 100 slot server. But I'm happy we have 64 slots. That is a perfect number to give you a huge (maybe huge is the the best word, but the only one that came to mind) battle experience, or at least that is the experience I get some times when playing smaller Arma2 maps and PR mod.

As fun as the old days were with 32 player limits (and often not nearly so many on at once), I definitely feel the player number boost improves game play. So perhaps it limits what one man alone can do... but that's what war is. The reality is war is messy, and you can be sure battlefields were "overcrowded" at key points as one side tried to push through the lines. You just have to take a step back, and view it more as a team experience rather than a chance to rambo it up and clear those objectives single handedly old style.

In the mod days, if I saw 16 players on a server I jumped in it. Now if I see a server with 16 players.. I skip it and find one with 40+ in it. The bar has been raised.

Well said. +1
 
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