"Training" ala America's Army for key roles

[NoxNoctum]

I was discussing this in another thread but I'd start another one just to draw more attention to it because I think it's a great idea (not trying to sound arrogant, but I really do think it is):

I say we have offline "training" like America's Army had back in the day. If you want to be able to play as a sniper, you have to hit a certain % of sprinting Germans at various distances, THEN you can get the role. I'd like for class selection then to last for a full minute before the game. Everyone who wants to be sniper (who has passed the training which should be HARD, so that the people who get it are actually good with it) clicks on it, and one is picked at random. Same for MGs, AT soldiers, PTRD, SLs, etc.

Perhaps training for AT soldiers (I guess with AT grenades since shreck wasn't invented yet) for example could be running through enemy lines with your SMG trying to get to that tank. You only get to play the class when you pull that off in a variety of different DIFFICULT scenarios.

Training for SLs could be learning where/how best to use arty, how to throw smoke in a way to shield an advance (i.e. if a certain % of your troops get killed because of your failure to throw smoke in the right place you fail the training) etc.

PTRD training would be similar to sniper training (targeting stationary and moving tanks at various ranges)... except learning what specific tank parts to aim at as well.

MG training would be... having to kill a certain percentage of enemy soldiers running through an area perhaps... learning how to find good positioning and cover, etc.

Just throwing that idea out there, though I think especially for sniper especially it's important that it be based on being able to hit long distance targets running at full pace at various angles. That way, when the player DOES pass, he now knows how to snipe, without having to "learn in-game" and potentially ruin a match for everyone else.

 

[Roland777]

Already suggested.

 

[NoxNoctum]

Ya, by me. Or do you mean another thread? Regardless, the more attention brought to it the better, even if some guy made another thread with similar ideas a month ago. TWI really should think about implementing this.

 

[Roland777]

My bad. Just noticed.

 

[Nimsky]

I've always been in favour of mandatory training for the 'special' roles. It could be tied in with the progression system.

 

[sturmfuhrer]

Highly agree.

Sturm

 

[LordKhaine]

I personally thought that the "training" in America's Army was utterly retarded. None of the training really had any relation to the in game actions for a start. Sneaking around like a ninja to avoid being spotted by AI... yeah, cos that happens so often in the game. Or my favourite, a 30 minute lecture, with an exam... all to train you how to heal... which is done in game by simply pressing a single button. Nice.

I'd hate to do any single player "training" just to allow me to play certain roles, especially since those roles I've been playing in RO since the UT2003 mod days. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to just get stuck in and learn what there is actually playing the game. That really is the only way to learn.

Adding any required America's Army-esque training will serve only to frustrate and annoy players, and stop them actually doing what they want.

 

[Dsquad]

It sounds like a good idea to me. I always want to be sniper but i suck at it, and since i don't want to waist a sniper i don't pick it. With training this won't be a problem anymore.

 

[Nezzer]

I definetely support this.
-No training=only rifleman and assault trooper roles available
-A very short training for MG gunners
-A range training area for snipers for them to train range adjustment and bullet drop
-A training for tankers about ammo functions, weak spots, angling and ballistics
-A simple training for AT gunners about tank weak spots and general handling tips
-A tactical training for squad leaders about squad management and the usage of the smoke
-A compex training for commanders about the usage of fire support and general management

This way we wound only have people who know what they are doing in special roles. No more "ROPlayer"s as a SL using smoke grenades like frag grenades and ignoring the radio.

 

[Reise]

I say let people do what they want, it's not the end of the world if you happen to get someone new, or an idiot in your "important" roles.

 

[Apos]

I support this idea as long as it keeps noobs from important roles. All important stuff have been said here and I would like to add:

If newbie (new player) wants to be good in RO2 he should complete the training to unlock whats he wants.
If somebody wants to fool around and kill some guys online he can stay with rifle.
If noob wants to play as SL, Sniper and do nothing or just to piss off his own team, he shouldn't have access to such classes and "Training" system helps somehow.

For argument that every player should have access to all weapons I answer: Yes, no problem in offline mode where is good place to practice and learn stuff.

 

[OneBloodyHero]

I UTTERLY hate this idea.

If you need practice or "training" go and play in offline mode. Learn to hoam in your rilfe, sniper, commander, mg roles. I do not want to waste my time "training" (this is a GAME, not REAL life, and i could care less how many targets or whatever I may hit). Even if I do hit an "x" amount of targets with a sniper or whatever, it does not transcend into actual gameplay in multiplayer modes. If you don't understand how the sniper works, go offline mode and tweak and mess with it until you know how the equipment works or how it should be used. The way TWI will unlock speciallty roles is through experience that the player has exacted through gameplay. That is his/her training. I do understand, however, that there will be tanker training, as that role is significantly more different than any other.

I'm all for tutorials, but for the love of god no training to unlock weapons or level, or whatever the hell. I love RO because it is so excessable (as I believe many others do as well) and user friendly, and by forcing players to "train" to play certain roles is, in my opinion, really bad.

Praise be to :IS2:

 

[Galslacht]

Good idea, make it a mandatory thing just like in AA.

Noobs are still a great threat for good gameplay in ROOST. Remember all those rounds that turn into a disaster because the SQL-role is being occupied by a noob?

Cannot blame the noobs, but I do blame the system

 

[NoxNoctum]

I UTTERLY hate this idea.

If you need practice or "training" go and play in offline mode. Learn to hoam in your rilfe, sniper, commander, mg roles. I do not want to waste my time "training" (this is a GAME, not REAL life, and i could care less how many targets or whatever I may hit). Even if I do hit an "x" amount of targets with a sniper or whatever, it does not transcend into actual gameplay in multiplayer modes. If you don't understand how the sniper works, go offline mode and tweak and mess with it until you know how the equipment works or how it should be used. The way TWI will unlock speciallty roles is through experience that the player has exacted through gameplay. That is his/her training. I do understand, however, that there will be tanker training, as that role is significantly more different than any other.

I'm all for tutorials, but for the love of god no training to unlock weapons or level, or whatever the hell. I love RO because it is so excessable (as I believe many others do as well) and user friendly, and by forcing players to "train" to play certain roles is, in my opinion, really bad.

Praise be to :IS2:

You're missing the point. The experience thing is good... but once the player gets the rank that they need to get the, say, sniper role, they're TOTALLY inexperienced with that except from when they've been picking it off corpses. (and usually you get shot when trying to do that because you're standing right where someone was just shot lol)

And ya sure you can say "if you dont understand it go offline and mess around to practice" but people don't do that!!! They want to go online immediately just like everyone else. It needs to be mandatory, and I'm sure TWI is capable the training entertaining.

 

[NoxNoctum]

I say let people do what they want, it's not the end of the world if you happen to get someone new, or an idiot in your "important" roles.

Of course not, it's just a game, but games are supposed to be fun, and having some guy wasting a key position takes out a lot of the fun.......but it will even more irritating than it is now when we're playing on 3-4 hour long "campaign mode" matches and the same retard keeps taking SL.

 

[NoxNoctum]

I personally thought that the "training" in America's Army was utterly retarded. None of the training really had any relation to the in game actions for a start. Sneaking around like a ninja to avoid being spotted by AI... yeah, cos that happens so often in the game. Or my favourite, a 30 minute lecture, with an exam... all to train you how to heal... which is done in game by simply pressing a single button. Nice.

I'd hate to do any single player "training" just to allow me to play certain roles, especially since those roles I've been playing in RO since the UT2003 mod days. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to just get stuck in and learn what there is actually playing the game. That really is the only way to learn.

Adding any required America's Army-esque training will serve only to frustrate and annoy players, and stop them actually doing what they want.

I agree with you it was poorly implemented. AA's intention though was to interest people in actual military procedures, including training, not to actually make someone GOOD at a role.

RO2's training would be purely to make someone at least half decent at an important role.

 

[HerrPorsche]

I am all for training in the game. However Tripwire has it seems always taken a simple approach to usability in the game. Most new people can easily figure out how to use weapons in game. Plus people are very friendly to new people when they ask questions in game on how to do something. With this said if there are any more complex classes and weapons to these classes in HOS then I am all for training.

 

[OneBloodyHero]

You're missing the point. The experience thing is good... but once the player gets the rank that they need to get the, say, sniper role, they're TOTALLY inexperienced with that except from when they've been picking it off corpses. (and usually you get shot when trying to do that because you're standing right where someone was just shot lol)

And ya sure you can say "if you dont understand it go offline and mess around to practice" but people don't do that!!! They want to go online immediately just like everyone else. It needs to be mandatory, and I'm sure TWI is capable the training entertaining.

I get your point, except I completely disagree with it.

So if the player is inexperienced with the sniper role when he reaches a rank that allows for the sniper to be used, then the player will learn from then on. Anything Mandatory is and can be infuriating. I don't care if the sniper is a poor shot, or the advanced elite assault trooper is a dope; he will eventually learn, if not, whatever, it is only a game. Just play with another role until that one becomes available. Plus, it doesn't mean that if you undergo training as sniper, you'll all of a sudden be a qualified one or any good at it. Sure you may know how to adjust range or whatever more quickly than someone else, but it surely doesn't mean you have talent at hitting a moving target 100m away.

Also, it seems to have been suggested by TWI that players that are performing better than others will experienced temporary rank boost or whatever. Meaning that you'll have a chance to obtain that weapon you so dreamed of. Similarly, I'm guessing they will have a counter-effect from which if you perform poorly, you'll be temporarily demoted and play with weapons which are not the most advanced. That seems like a great solution to what you all have been addressing. Players that perform aptly in a multiplayer game will be the ones that will have the opportunity to use weapons, like a sniper or the advanced assualt rifle, rather than dopes or nubs that can't tell the difference. At least, that is the impression that I got from TWI interviews...

 

[NoxNoctum]

I get your point, except I completely disagree with it.

Plus, it doesn't mean that if you undergo training as sniper, you'll all of a sudden be a qualified one or any good at it. Sure you may know how to adjust range or whatever more quickly than someone else, but it surely doesn't mean you have talent at hitting a moving target 100m away.

Also, it seems to have been suggested by TWI that players that are performing better than others will experienced temporary rank boost or whatever. Meaning that you'll have a chance to obtain that weapon you so dreamed of. Similarly, I'm guessing they will have a counter-effect from which if you perform poorly, you'll be temporarily demoted and play with weapons which are not the most advanced. That seems like a great solution to what you all have been addressing. Players that perform aptly in a multiplayer game will be the ones that will have the opportunity to use weapons, like a sniper or the advanced assualt rifle, rather than dopes or nubs that can't tell the difference. At least, that is the impression that I got from TWI interviews...

First part... uh ya... it does. If you repeatedly practice shooting at sprinting targets at 100, 200, 300, 400 meters away running at different angles and speeds you get better at it. That's just basic... humanity. We get better at things the more we do them.

As for the second I hope you're right, I've heard it suggested by players but not TWI, and I've read/watched all the interviews. All I've heard is that as you go up in rank, you get access to more "elite" classes. Now if you DID get demoted for poor performance in these "elite" roles than it would be great and would largely solve the problem. But still there's the question of how do you determine whether a SL is doing his job on a map with no arty? How do you tell if he's smoking the right places or being a dumbass and throwing them at the spawn? See what I'm saying?

 

[OneBloodyHero]

First part... uh ya... it does. If you repeatedly practice shooting at sprinting targets at 100, 200, 300, 400 meters away running at different angles and speeds you get better at it. That's just basic... humanity. We get better at things the more we do them.

As for the second I hope you're right, I've heard it suggested by players but not TWI, and I've read/watched all the interviews. All I've heard is that as you go up in rank, you get access to more "elite" classes. Now if you DID get demoted for poor performance in these "elite" roles than it would be great and would largely solve the problem. But still there's the question of how do you determine whether a SL is doing his job on a map with no arty? How do you tell if he's smoking the right places or being a dumbass and throwing them at the spawn? See what I'm saying?

No, the more you repeat things, the better you get at repeating things in the circumstances by which you repeat them. Some people are exceptional in training. I mean really good. When they go and put that training into practice, they are not noticeable or good, or nowhere near the quality they were in how they performed in training. I trained to be pro-soccer player, but got severly hurt. I experienced this phenomenon of repeated training and doing things, and redoing them in actual practice in a "live-fire" situation. Others, were really poor in training, and yet exceptional during matches... Anyways, this is a philosophical debate ...

If a player is a poor squad leader, then let him be a poor squad leader. This reflects realism. Not all squad leaders were good in real life. Many made terrible mistakes and were castrated or executed post-battle. Others were changed during the course of the battle (like in RO with tk limits and hopefully poor performance resulting in demotion, vote-kick, or admin removal, etc.).