ballance the economy to give late comers a chance to catch up tech wise

[mikeloeven]

The economy in the game is broken in the simple sense that specimins give low amounts of money that only amount to something useful after you have killed a large number not bothering to take into account the wave when a player joined or what gun they are using.

When a new players join a game in progress there are several things staked against him that prevent him from being useful until the next map. The first is that they start with a static amount of cash. The second is that they start with a single pistol and even if they are really good players the guy with the aa12 will mow down most of the specimins effectively kill stealing any reward the new comer had a chance to earn.

Thirdly a newcomer will probably die with out body armor if the wave is anything over 5 losing all the money he earned/could have earned.

I have a simple fix for this rewards for kills are increased/decreased based on the level of the gun you are using and the current wave of play. a guy mowing the grass with an aa12 on the 10'th wave would make a normal reasionable amount of money while the new player with the pistol would make significantly more with each headshot allowing him to catch up to the other players. the bonus is lost when a tear 2 or 3 weapon is purchased.

The second fix is upon death the starting money is based on the current wave. The higher the wave the more starting money you get so that you can equip yourself with at least a hand cannon and body armor in the later rounds.

 

[nutterbutter]

I don't agree that the system is broken. You want a weapon when you spawn? Earn one. Level up. No reason why some lvl 2 player should join the game at wave 8 or 9 anyways.

BTW, players don't "steal" rewards. You want money. Either beg or kill for it.

And why should someone joining the game at lvl 6 be able to "catch up" with the players who have been playing the game since the beginning. The game is awash with cash anyways, so that any decent player can earn whatever money they want in a few waves.

Also, I usually play sharpie and can easily generate over 8k a game using mainly the 9mm. How much more you need?

I apologize if I sound annoyed, but there is so much money in the game and there should be some work in obtaining the highest level weapons and there isn't.

 

[mikeloeven]

this ties into a suggestion i made on the steam forums the server browser doesent show the current wave when you select the server you only find out after you connect it will be less of an issue when current wave is listed right out in the open before you join

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

the real problem is mostly due to the fact that the game allows a wide range of players to be mixed together. if everyone in the server had roughly equal perk levels, each should have the same chance to get the same amount of kills/money. the issue like you described, is that you'll get a lower level "competing" against a higher level with better weapons/attributes. thing is that should never happen. it only does when either:

A.) the high level player is playing in a low difficulty server beneath his current "status"
B.) the low level player is playing in a high difficulty server that's above his current "status"

that's the bulk of the issue. to solve it, there should be standard restrictions for "match making", and by that term i mean the ability for players to join games, not the game FORCING players into servers. example, must have a minimum perk to play on hard or suicidal. additionally if you're playing on a lower difficulty level than is equivilant to your perks, you'd only be allowed to use whatever attributes the perk max is set at. so if it were set at level4 on a normal server, even if you've got level6, you'd only be given the attributes assigned to a level4.

and like you said, the other part of the issue is mid-game joining. the server browser should indicate which wave the game is in.

 

[9_6]

I have a better idea: the joiner asks for money.
Sounds crazy, I know, but think about it.

 

[nutterbutter]

the real problem is mostly due to the fact that the game allows a wide range of players to be mixed together.

I don't see that as a problem.

 

[Olivier]

A lvl 0 in a suicidal server full of lvl 5-6 is a problem for me.

 

[nutterbutter]

A lvl 0 in a suicidal server full of lvl 5-6 is a problem for me.

Why? How does he impact you in the least? His presence creates more spawning specimens which makes a better game. Just let him die and don't give him any money. A LVL 0, as long as it isn't a FF server, impacts you not one bit. And if it is a FF server, warn him once then kill him.

 

[Olivier]

Why? How does he impact you in the least? His presence creates more spawning specimens which makes a better game. Just let him die and don't give him any money.

He's making an impact on me by standing behind me when i'm circled or shooting stuff he shouldnt shoot. And it is not true that with more players, you'll get more zeds at the same time.

 

[nutterbutter]

He's making an impact on me by standing behind me when i'm circled or shooting stuff he shouldnt shoot.

Whaaaa! Really. You can't always get what you want when you want. Either deal with it or leave the server. Everyone has to deal with someone raging the FP or scrake. Or shooting the clot when three sirens are walking up. Or ignoring the husk. Or aggroing two dozen specimens and then dragging them them to me or you. And you know what? Not a damn bit of it means anything when the game is over or when someone leaves the server.

And it is not true that with more players, you'll get more zeds at the same time.

I didn't say more at the same time. I said more spawning specimens. More people means more specimens spawn.

 

[Olivier]

His presence creates more spawning specimens

The zed limit for whitelisted servers is fix to 32, even if you are alone, you'll still get 32 zeds. Same with 6 players. The spawning time is decided by the mapper and will stay the same with any number of players.

Whaaaa! Really. You can't always get what you want when you want. Either deal with it or leave the server. Everyone has to deal with someone raging the FP or scrake. Or shooting the clot when three sirens are walking up. Or ignoring the husk. Or aggroing two dozen specimens and then dragging them them to me or you.

Yeah but when you join a hard or suicidal server, you expect to have good players. I feel bad for all the players who were hoping to get an achievement and havent got it because someone ruined their game. But you cant understand this since you dont seem to care about others anyway.

 

[Double_Deagle]

I have a better idea: the joiner asks for money.
Sounds crazy, I know, but think about it.

^What he said.

It would be nice if you could see the current wave in the server information as well.

As for the low levels in high servers, how about when you first get the game the standard setting for the server filter are set to Normal instead of All?

 

[nutterbutter]

The zed limit for whitelisted servers is fix to 32, even if you are alone, you'll still get 32 zeds. Same with 6 players. The spawning time is decided by the mapper and will stay the same with any number of players.

Christ dude, again "I didn't say more at the same time. I said more spawning specimens. More people means more specimens spawn."

I'll say that again "I didn't say more at the same time."

More people means more spawning specimens. 6 players means more specimens to kill than 3 players. You know that. No idea why you keep arguing something else.

Yeah but when you join a hard or suicidal server, you expect to have good players. I feel bad for all the players who were hoping to get an achievement and havent got it because someone ruined their game.

O, so now you feel bad for all of the other players, yes?

A lvl 0 in a suicidal server full of lvl 5-6 is a problem for me.

He's making an impact on me by standing behind me when i'm circled or shooting stuff he shouldnt shoot.

Yeah, your previous messages don't seem to carry the same altruistic message, do they?

But you cant understand this since you dont seem to care about others anyway.

And now I don't care about others. Too funny. Yes, because I don't care who joins I don't care about others. Want to make any other claims about me? I kick my dog? Alcoholic? Don't put the cap back on the toothpaste?

 

[koneko]

Protecting level 0s that join Suicidal servers, end up contributing nothing to the team, and don't leave after somebody suggests they go to a lower difficulty isn't logical. Especially if they're the type that fires their handguns at FPs thinking they're being useful. Stop it.

The economy is fine and it's actually far too easy to get money. So what do I do when I join on a late wave and nobody hands me cash? I leave or deal with it. Usually the latter if it isn't wave 8+, since one wave with a 9mm (not even Sharpshooter) is enough to get cash for almost any basic weapon I need unless I'm trying to go demolitions anyways. Starting out as medic for free armor and survivability, then cheap armor before a perk switch does wonders.

I would really like to see the server browser list current wave, though.

 

[Olivier]

First of all i rested my perks and achievement so yes, it bothers me when i dont get an achievement because an unexperienced player joined a hard/suicidal server. But since i got all the achievements in the past, it is not the end of the world if i dont get it, but this aint the case with some of my friends and other players who bought the game a few weeks/months ago.

Second, why would i care about your own personal life. You said previously that you dont see the low-level players in higher difficulty as a problem, if you dont see this as a problem, try to play with new people that dont have the map achievements. If you and your friends already have all the achievements, well i can understand that you dont give a **** when you play in public servers.

 

[nutterbutter]

First of all i rested my perks and achievement so yes, it bothers me when i dont get an achievement because an unexperienced player joined a hard/suicidal server. But since i got all the achievements in the past, it is not the end of the world if i dont get it, but this aint the case with some of my friends and other players who bought the game a few weeks/months ago.

Yeah, ok. Sure. Look, we all understand that you, and others, get all pissed off when some new player joins your game and rages the FP. Get over it. You chose to stay in the game. Yes, it is annoying but that is all it is. Annoying. Not a big deal.

Second, why would i care about your own personal life.

Who said you did?

You said previously that you dont see the low-level players in higher difficulty as a problem, if you dont see this as a problem, try to play with new people that dont have the map achievements.

Uhh, that would be me staying in the game with the new people.

If you and your friends already have all the achievements, well i can understand that you dont give a **** when you play in public servers.

Yet another accusation cloaking an insult. Whatever dude. It is obvious that you are easily annoyed for very little cause and you are now striking out at everyone who doesn't share your opinion of the new players.

So stop acting like a child and if the new players bother you, do what I do. Just let them die. I let people die all of the time. Some idiot wants to fight in front of a spawn point and expects me to cover him? I will once and then tell him not to fight there. He keeps fighting there so I let him go. Same thing with people who aggro everything and then run around hoping someone else will bail them out. I won't. So if you want to get all pissed off about a situation someone else creates than you have no control over, then feel free. If the whole team is new, then help them out. And if they won't listen, leave. No one is keeping you on that server except for you.

 

[Unit-05]

A lvl 0 in a suicidal server full of lvl 5-6 is a problem for me.

As for me, While yes you do get more specimens to kill so you can get more money, but you can't use that money if you die, right? As more players join, as do their health. That extra amount of specimens and health is added on because the game is assuming the new person joining would be able to help you with that. The help we get, is someone, running ahead of everyone, spamming the 9mm, only to take some damage, try and run back, and die.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

I don't see that as a problem.

if you seriously don't see it as a problem for people on both sides of the issue, then i pity your failure to grasp a problem that's so blaitantly obvious. i (and countless others) have explained exactly why it's a problem in multiple threads, many of which (if i remember correctly) you attempted to refute what was said and ultimately failed to provide any rational arguement to counter our conclusions.

 

[nutterbutter]

if you seriously don't see it as a problem for people on both sides of the issue, then i pity your failure to grasp a problem that's so blaitantly obvious. i (and countless others) have explained exactly why it's a problem in multiple threads, many of which (if i remember correctly) you attempted to refute what was said and ultimately failed to provide any rational arguement to counter our conclusions.

There are things that matter and things that don't. What everyone is complaining about doesn't matter. In the least. The games are not persistant. Games last a maximum of 11 waves. If the team dies in wave 2 what is the difference between that and the team dying in wave 8? Or wave 10? Or wave 11? Nothing. Not a single thing.

Leveling Commando is the same solo as multi-player. Is the same as beginner, as normal, as hard, and as suicidal. Is the same with two players as six. Is the same with wave 2 as wave 10. Is the same as every single other perk. So some newb ruining your game at lvl 9 doesn't interrupt a thing except for your delicate sensibility.

Noobs bother you? Teach them. Tell them what they need to do without sounding like a pompous jerk (which is what the vast vast majority of the people who are complaining sound like). If they won't listen then let them die. Don't heal them. Don't give them money. Run around the map. After all, if the complaining players are the uber-players they make themselves out to be, then roaming for a couple waves should be easy enough, right? After a few waves, the new guys will leave. If they won't leave, then YOU, or any of the other people who are complaining can LEAVE. If you don't leave then you, and everyone else, is choosing the stay in that situation so just play the game as always.

What you don't understand is that there is one thing worse than all of these new people paying for KF and joining these games? KF dying because no one new joins. You have to take the good with the bad and in this case the good (a ton of cash going to TW) overwhelmingly outweighs the bad (your annoyance).

I think the m14 breaks the game. So I choose not to use it. Well, except for Candlesmoke because there just isn't enough ammo to use cannons with xbow. But not using it is the only choice I have in the matter. I can't affect other players nor can I make them do what I want. So when a couple other players use the m14, I have a choice. And I've been in games where there has been 4 other sharpies and a medic and ALL OF THEM had an m14. I can leave a game that is going to be boring, I can play another perk to test some theories, or I can leave. If I choose to stay then I lose the ability to complain about the other players.

"Refuting" that someone got all pissy because some noob kept taking money and getting killed and kept aggroing the FP with a non-perk weapon is a a losing argument because it can't be refuted other than to tell the pissy person to "grow up."

Again, yes it is annoying, but that is all it is. How much you let it bother you is up to you.

 

[Unit-05]

There are things that matter and things that don't. What everyone is complaining about doesn't matter. In the least. The games are not persistant. Games last a maximum of 11 waves. If the team dies in wave 2 what is the difference between that and the team dying in wave 8? Or wave 10? Or wave 11? Nothing. Not a single thing.

Leveling Commando is the same solo as multi-player. Is the same as beginner, as normal, as hard, and as suicidal. Is the same with two players as six. Is the same with wave 2 as wave 10. Is the same as every single other perk. So some newb ruining your game at lvl 9 doesn't interrupt a thing except for your delicate sensibility.

Noobs bother you? Teach them. Tell them what they need to do without sounding like a pompous jerk (which is what the vast vast majority of the people who are complaining sound like). If they won't listen then let them die. Don't heal them. Don't give them money. Run around the map. After all, if the complaining players are the uber-players they make themselves out to be, then roaming for a couple waves should be easy enough, right? After a few waves, the new guys will leave. If they won't leave, then YOU, or any of the other people who are complaining can LEAVE. If you don't leave then you, and everyone else, is choosing the stay in that situation so just play the game as always.

What you don't understand is that there is one thing worse than all of these new people paying for KF and joining these games? KF dying because no one new joins. You have to take the good with the bad and in this case the good (a ton of cash going to TW) overwhelmingly outweighs the bad (your annoyance).

I think the m14 breaks the game. So I choose not to use it. Well, except for Candlesmoke because there just isn't enough ammo to use cannons with xbow. But not using it is the only choice I have in the matter. I can't affect other players nor can I make them do what I want. So when a couple other players use the m14, I have a choice. And I've been in games where there has been 4 other sharpies and a medic and ALL OF THEM had an m14. I can leave a game that is going to be boring, I can play another perk to test some theories, or I can leave. If I choose to stay then I lose the ability to complain about the other players.

"Refuting" that someone got all pissy because some noob kept taking money and getting killed and kept aggroing the FP with a non-perk weapon is a a losing argument because it can't be refuted other than to tell the pissy person to "grow up."

Again, yes it is annoying, but that is all it is. How much you let it bother you is up to you.

So, you are telling me that, When one/two people join, the four/five people should just leave if they dont like the fact that their bothering them, and if the four/five people don't leave thats their problem and loose the right to complain? What the hell kind of logic is that?

If we do not heal them or give them money, they are useless, If we do give them money and heal them, They either do something retarded that would get us killed (such as in biotics lab with the two rooms connected room and the two doors, where you usally weld the door on the right and stay in the left room but they go to the right side room and makes the specimens break into the right side door). Or be of minimal help even with their best of weapons which then no one can afford to make any mistakes or everyone is going to get wasted.