The Official Suggest Things to Yoshi thread for Balancing

[Yoshiro]

Hey guys, I am going over several of the balance issues in KF atm, as well as trying to keep track of the several threads spread around that have been posted by the community on it.

To make this easier for me I've decided to make this thread so you can post your feedback/suggestions.

Now a few things to keep in mind:

1) Keep suggestions simple. The harder it is to do, the least likely we are to do it. Things like increase ammo price/limit available ammo by certain numbers are good.
2) Don't make things complicated (see 1). Things like "add this weapon, change damage based on range using x factor y model of theory z, new perk" will probably be skipped right over. Things like that belong in their own post in the idea/suggestion forum.
3) Just because it is suggested doesn't mean it will happen even if it fits into category 1.
4) Just because many of the users here agree with it doesn't mean it will happen, even it fits into category 1.
5) This is not a bug thread, unless that bug has something to do with balance. See bug sub forum for bugs.
6) This is not a whine at Tripwire/Yoshi thread.
7) I hold the right to delete or remove any posts that I feel don't belong here. Also I ban people for fun (see iRC). Don't get on my bad side.


Now have at it! Also normal forum rules apply, so no being idiots or insulting to each other.

 

[Yoshiro]

I've decided to make an example post for people to follow:

M14 magazine count should be limited by X number in default state.
M14 ammo price should be raised by X amount in default state.

Example of what not to do:

No really, what were you thinking when implementing it? This isn't a precise sharpshooter weapon, it's an assault rifle, something you run towards the enemy with instead of steadily picking shots at a distance.

Now this is an example of a Whine post. It did not need to be phrased that way. Next person to do it gets a temp ban.

 

[PUTZ]

Limit active pipe bombs per player to like 10. Less chance of being abused.

 

[9_6]

Oh dear, prepare for a hailstorm of suggestions.
Let me add my share:

• Make the chainsaw worth using by making the primary attack a horizontal swipe that can hit multiple enemies and stop that katana "semi auto" sillyness that serves no other purpose but to make the controls inconsistent for no reason.
  All melee weapons should have "autofire".
  Also there should be a reason to use the machete and the axe.
  The machete should also have the ability to attack multiple enemies with 1 swipe and the axe should get a damage boost so it surpasses the katana in that department.
  That way all 4 weapons each have their own individual playstyle instead of being obsolete or just blatant upgrades.
• Set the mp7m price from its insane 3500 (or whatever it is at now) down to 500 and remove the insane discount medics get on those. No one but a medic will want to use a mp7 anyway.
  While we're at it, reduce the hunting-shotgun-esque spread of the mp7 so most of your weak shots actually hit where you're aiming.
  Alternatively, the medic could also have a small reloadspeed boost because in most cases, the long reload is what kills you/your teammates.
• Raise the price of the crossbow to ~1000 or something. No discounts from any perk.
  Also make sure it can't kill a fleshpound with just 1 shot, even if a lv6 sharpshooter shoots!
• Make the LAW a demo weapon already! Un-ironsighted "shots" should result in a melee attack that clobbers whatever pittyful insect gets hit by that 14 kg monster so having it doesn't reduce you to only your 9mm and its low ammo.
  Alternatively, just lower its weight to 10 so you can have a backup weapon.
• The m14EBR must die. No really, what were you thinking when implementing it? This isn't a precise sharpshooter weapon, it's an assault rifle, something you run towards the enemy with instead of steadily picking shots at a distance.
  If you must keep it, cut its ammo pool into half so you actually are encouraged to aim.
• Make grenades worth using by raising their damage OR make them cheaper. The only thing they are good for right now is blasting doors open.
• Make the m79 shoot fire grenades when held by a firebug.
  That was kinda what I expected when I first saw that there are new grenade launchers.
  You know, because the firebug gets the ability to use fireGRENADES.
• Generally, adjust the ammo prices! It can't be that the ammunition costs more than buying a new gun which comes with full ammo (crossbow, mp7, hunting shotgun) or that the ammo of a weaker weapon costs much more than ammo for a much stronger weapon (m79 > m32)!
• Make pipebombs remote detonated via altfire instead of being magical clone-detecting bombs.
  That should also solve the spam problem since one button push detonates them all.

Things that are gray require more than just shifting variables.
That's all I can think of right now.

 

[Yoshiro]

Thank you for your thoughtful post. Please see the warning attached to it.

 

[HaTeMe]

1. Make machete weight 1 or 2 blocks instead of 3, so someone might actually buy it sometimes to fill those last blocks of space.

2. Make the LAW more powerful but perhaps cost more. Because, its a friggin rocketlauncher, Id assume it to kill anything below fleshpounds and scrakes with one shot even in suicidal. After all theres tons of disadvantages to the weapon aswell.

3. Increase the cost of the Crossbow to 600 or more, simply because buying full ammo costs that 600 atm. Same with some other weapons whose ammo costs more than the weapon itself.

4. Make chainsaw more powerful BUT run on fuel. Because, at its current state the weapon is much worse than the katana yet it costs as much. OR - make it cost less than the katana.

5. Decrease m14 ammo capacity by 3-4 mags at least, and PERHAPS make it weight a block or two more. Because, 5 blocks for a big weapon like that is not much at all..

6. Increase Firebug ammo capacity by at least 1 canister OR simply give him a lightweight secondary weapon.

7. Increase berserker damage resistance, because he is supposed to be the tank in the game absorbing all the damage, but atm you die pretty much instantly if you get surrounded or attacked by a siren/husk/fleshpound/crawler-swarm. Atm the medic is the berserker :/

8. Remove the ability to decap fleshpounds with 1 crossbow bolt. Something like 3 bolts would be more reasonable.

9. IF possible, remove the ability to stun scrakes with katana UNLESS using the berserker perk. This should be zerker ability, not katana ability.

10. Decrease the cost of AA12 from 4000 to 3000-3500, because its actually rather useless for non-support perk so I dont see why it should cost as much as it does. I mean, even Scar is 2500 and its probably better for non-support.

11. Like 9_6 said, make granades more useful because unless you are in a VERY closed hallway, you cant hit anything with those since the specimens know how to avoid them. A solution would be removing specimen ability to dodge those nades, they dont seem that smart afterall.

Thats all I can think of for now

Thats basically a suggestion with explanation on WHY this should be changed.

 

[SMIFF]

Make people fear the fleshpound/scrake again, lol.

9_6 and HaTeMe have got pretty much everything covered.

 

[Yoshiro]

Thank you for your input so far guys. I have compiled a list from the testers, this forum and my own opinion and forwarded around to people that matter. I will also be updating it as more suggestions are added and as I try out various things here in the office.

So please feel free to continue offering feedback.

 

[EricFong]

1. Remove the syringe delay, after you use the syringe and after the reload animation play, you have to wait for 5-7 second, time like this could result in fatal.
2. Fix the heal dart bug, some time it hit the wounded people and green mist show up, but it isn't register as healed.

That all.

 

[Yomommassis]

idk if this counts...

is there a reason the price of the hunting shotgun ammo and crossbow are soo high that its cheaper to sell then gun and rebuy than it is to refill?

either this need to be reworked or am i missing something

 

[Yoshiro]

Yes that is a balance/bug issue that counts. And it's on my list.

 

[mamoo]

Reduce sharpshooters headshot damage, so it looks like this:

Current bonus:
Lv0: 5%
Lv1: 10%
Lv2: 20%
Lv3: 30%
Lv4: 40%
Lv5: 50%
Lv6: 50%

My proposed bonus:
Lv0: 5%
Lv1: 10%
Lv2: 20%
Lv3: 25%
Lv4: 30%
Lv5: 35%
Lv6: 40%

Also, have a cap on headshot damage, with the crossbow especially, to prevent one-shot killing of fleshpounds and skrakes.

 

[9_6]

Oh yes, I forgot:

Autofire for dual 9mms.
So there is a reason to use them: Giving up precision for the ability of not having to click wildly.
Right now they serve no purpose but to take your ability to aim away and to lose half your ammo if you drop the additional gun (which should be fixed).
Alternatively, 1 click could result in 2 shots, 1 out of each gun.

Static discounts of ~40 or so %.
Simply put, a lv6 commando should have to pay the same price for his guns as a lv0 one.
The discounts right now just get ridiculous with 75% and more.
That way you would also get your tier 3 weapons later (read: not at wave 2 in a long game) which would make things harder.

Gaining money should be damage based, not kill based and medics should get bonus cash for healing.
So firebugs get the money they deserve and medics can also rack up some cash to share with their team by doing their job.
The score should also be damage- instead of kill based so people are not that crazy about "getting most kills" and actually pay more attention to that pound next to a teammate instead of those 5 clots on the other end of the map.

Faster move-and melee-attackspeed during slowmotion for berserkers.
So berserkers can make better use of their ZED-time extensions.

 

[FrozenDozer]

The Hunting Shotgun should do less damage. It's (imho) too easy to kill the bigger ones with it (Fleshpound, Scrake).

The Crossbowdamage should be lowered or it should be MUCH more expensive.

The AA12 is a little bit too expensive. Maybe lower it by around 500-100. I play Support normally, and I don't buy the gun because the Hunting Shotgun is much more effective.

That's what I have atm.
Also, I have to agree with everything that has been posted so far.

 

[Deleted member 24443]

Weapons
Reduce Crossbow Headshot Bonus by 25-50%
Increase Crossbow price by 250 - 500
Decrease M14 total ammocount by 3-4 to balance its damage
OR decrease its refirerate by 1 to 1.5 secs
Increase M14 cost to 3500

Decrease Bullpup weight by 1 to make it more useful
Increase SCAR weight by 1-2
Increase SCAR cost by 500
(I'm a commando and this weapon burns through most if not all specimen below wave 4 to 5, even if you are a different perk-user)

Increase Chainsaw Damage per sec (I am missing a real value here, sorry)
As has been said, alter the Machete's and Axe's playstyle
- Machete -> faster attack
- add more powerful swing to Axe to attack multiple enemies

Switch LAW to Demo-Perk weapon.
Increase LAW explosion radius by 1.5 metres and increase its damage by 25 (will be extremly effective with demo, then, but at cost of space and other weapons).

Increase Pipebomb cost by 100 each.
Decrease Pipebomb discount for Demoperk by at least 50%
Decrease additional pipebomb ammo for Demoperk by 3. (1 for each of lvl4 to 6)

Decrease M7 Medic Gun spread by 50%
Decrease M7 Medic Gun reload speed by 1 second

Decrease Flamethrower weight by 2. Leaves space for backup weapon.
Increase Flamethrower cost to 1250.

Perks
General
Decrease Perk Discount to a total of 50% on level 5 (10% discount / level)

Support Specialist
Move Grenade-damage-bonus to Demoperk.
Reduce Shotgun penetration chance by 15% (5% of each level 4 to 6 or level 1 to 3)

Commando
Fine as is. Possibly remove 1 ZED-time extension.

Sharpshooter
Reduce headshot damage by 10-15%
9mm does not count as sniper weapon.

Demo
(copied from weapon -> pipebomb)
Decrease Pipebomb discount for Demoperk by at least 50%.
Decrease additional pipebomb ammo for Demoperk by 3. (1 for each of lvl4 to 6)

Firebug
Fine as is. Burns through specimen easily.
Possibly increase additional tank ammo by 15% instead of 10% per level.

Medic
No suggestions. Seems fine to me.

Beserker
Should run fine with suggestions to melee weapons. Additional speed now acts almost as scout class. Possibly decrease overall speed gain by 12% as level 6 (2% per level).
€dit: Remove the melee secondary fire for other perks. Only Zerker should be able to handle more complex maneuvers without slicing himself.

Other
Increase Scrake spawn chance by 1 from wave 7 on
Increase Fleshpound spawn chance by 2-4 depending on difficulty from wave 8 on.

Thank you for giving us this opportunity!

 

[Nenjin]

-Reduce M14 magazines by 50%. (I think the current is 20 mags. Way too much.)

-Reduce the number of shots per magazine. (I think its' currently 14?)

-If M14 stays a SS weapon, introduce a slight firing delay between shots. Or alternatively, increase the recoil a little.

-Cap Xbow headshot damage against FPs. I dont' see the need for a price increase if that happens. Skrakes and FPs are the only reason people are unhappy about the Xbow. Scrakes should be left alone as SS do deserve at least one instant decap on a tough target.

-Increase Berzerker's effective damage mitigation by 20% or so.

-Reduce the medic's body armor damage mitigation by 20% or so.

(A suit of medic body armor should not be the equivalent of two berzerkers. Dead is dead, the berzerker's non-perishable damage resistance doesn't mean squat if he's still dead by the round's end. The medic on the other hand can survive a lot of abuse to go on and buy another vest.)

-In total agreement about grenades. They are worthless on suicidal as non-demo, non-support. Increase their damage value on higher difficulties, or make them much cheaper to buy so we throw more in every round.

-Increase the price of the SCARS relative to max level Commandos. Rank 6 commandos with SCARS on round 2, even in suicidal, is a leading cause of boredom.



And guys, let's note. This is a request for balance changes. Asking for what amounts to new content isn't probably going to get considered. I'd guess that includes things like animations and what not.

 

[Deleted member 24443]

Remembered another thing.
Not really balance, but a good touch to get people play together nicely.

Insert an indicator whom healed whom, meaning a message that "You got healed by X". Sometimes notice that I got healed and just type in V->2->3 but cannot return the favor directly.

 

[Outsider]

Hum, i also think the M14 is overpowered. But more than that, i also think it does not fitted the sharpshooter perk : http://world.guns.ru/assault/as15-e.htm .
For the sharpshooter perk, i'd have taken the M14 Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR) (follow the link). I'm explaining : the current version is just transforming the sharpshooter in an hybrid with commando perk with its rate of fire, its shooting power, and its laser.
If its a sharpshooter, it needs more a DMR version with its scope and less of rate of fire.

Ah, and could you make the LAW a bit more like it seems to be in real life ? I mean : it just feels weird to launch a rocket and to have such a little explosion and even clots are surviving it (when they are not hitted directly).
And with that, you should decrease the amount of ammunition. I mean, it is rockets, it must be very cumbersome.

Oh, just one last thing : could you decrease the number of pipe bomb available for one person, even for the demo perk ? It can be such a mess in the end with all these bomb everywhere. And they are quite effective ... not like the LAW.

 

[mamoo]

Ah, and could you make the LAW a bit more like it seems to be in real life ?

A single use discarded weapon?

 

[KingJoker]

1. Change the LAWs stats to basically match the mods power. It had the power of NEARLY killing a fleshpound, but since retail only has about 10% of the fleshpounds mod had i think the LAW should be capable of also nearly killing scrakes! ALSO A CON FOR THIS WEAPON = Make it have massive weight..


FIx LAW plox