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Teleporting Specimen "Specter"

Pretty cool idea.

Even though I'm sure that each player could think of some cool enemy to implement, main point is that KF needs something truly unique

80% of current specimen are simple "I come close to you and maul you with my melee attacks", which is rather boring.

Seriously, I don't see too big of a difference between Stalker (she isn't actually invisible, okay, so she is like a weaker clot), Gorefast, Scrake and Fleshpound.
All of them just charge towards you.The only difference between them is the life/damage/speed.
Yea, gorefasts have a slight boost and scrakes/FPs have enrage, but these are rather minor features.

The only true unique specimen out there are crawlers (they are small and hop weee), clots (because they can grab) and ranged ones (but even they are very similar to each other, there really isn't that much difference between a siren or a bloat, for example.Bloat *seems* unique because "he explodes in acid splash", but that splash is so small that it makes no difference).

Specimen like the one suggested in this thread are actually interesting and require you to change how you play to deal with them.
TWI should try to implement more of these
 
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In case you didnt notice its SUPPOSED to pose a threat to everyone else except firebug and berserker, and if it has around as much hp as a gorefast its not like anyone else will have huge trouble taking it out with just a knife.

And like said, you can always simply have one man carrying a melee weapon. I - for example - almost always carry a katana. Commando can have one along with scar and ak, support can have one along with shotgun and aa12, medic can have one along with medicgun and other weapons... that leaves only SS and Demo who would have difficulties with this specimen and SS deserves it too.
 
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Sorry if that shatters your tried and true strategies and makes different loadouts actually a viable option but you can still kite them and stab them to death once it's safe.
They're not supposed to move fast if not shot after all. Slower than a clot even.

Challenging player's strategies is one thing. Forcing a team to have a firebug or berserker on the team or forcing everyone to purchase a katana, and take up valuable space, isn't good game play.

1a) Indeed. So they have a reason to exist.

There are other reasons for berserkers and firebugs "to exist." People like to play them.

1b) Pretty much, yes. Fortunately you only have ~30-40 specimens to deal with solo and can avoid them and take care of other enemies first, which means you can't camp, or you have a team and, hopefully, someone who will take care of those pests.

Stop thinking "solo" all of the time. Put two of these specters in a group, on suicidal, where no one has any but a knife while other mobs are bearing down on them and that group is screwed. While everyone is pitifully hacking away with a knife, the rest of the mobs are bearing down as well. You get everyone in the group having to focus, with their least powerful weapon, on a mob that can eviscerate a player in two attacks and that group is screwed.

But there seems to be a fatal flaw with specter and I'll get to that at the bottom of this reply.

1c) It's the same thing as having a crossbow guy just to be able to deal with scrakes right now.
Also why every player, 1 is enough. Same as the crossbow guy.

But it isn't. Xbow guy can target multiple mobs. Xbow guy can attack two mobs on opposite sides of the group in a couple seconds. One xbow guy can cover the entire group.

Firebug can do that as well, but fron reading your initial post and subsequent replies, you are focusing more on the berserker. Berserker has to cover ground to get to different areas and that builds a significant delay in his ability.


2a) And the day is saved.

Well, yes. I'm trying to think things through. Supply possible solutions to problems until I get your input.

2b) Once again, problem solved.

Yes and no. Depends on a question you didn't originally answer and it also brings up the situation which was "2c."

2c) Solution: Use its ability against it, don't have the berserker walk for 5 seconds, shoot the specter so it teleports towards you.
That also isolates it from the group and the berserker can take care of it while you keep the other mobs at distance.
Hooray, teamwork!

Again, yes and no. Shooting the specter doesn't separate it from the group. Shooting the specter brings it closer to the group. You also think how long it takes for two people to solely focus on a single mob during suicidal play and mob speed.

It's not elimitated completely.

Ok, let's look at that. When you say "10%" do you mean 10% of the specimen's full health or do you mean 10% of the normal damage of the bullet? I see you edited out your snide remark.

Idunnolol.
Is that even possible. The game system will sort out which player it targets then, probably a random one.

You have to decide. After all, it is your design.

Do you even know how big one "step" is? Cause I don't.
How about 10 feet?

Ok, 10 feet.

Being able to teleport over 90 feet towards you when shot with the strongest weapons sounds sufficient to me.
Also I was thinking something around 10%. Killing 10 gorefasts with bodyshots takes a lot of firepower so I guess that'll do.
Of course, no value is set in stone, it's just a concept after all.

Well, you have to decide. No use discussing that until you let me know what 10% actually means.


They hit it.
It has a huge resistance against those and damage from those sources triggers the teleportation.
Makes no sense, probably, but this is a game about shooting zombies in the face and this seems to be the simplest way to implement it so who cares.
Bolts and pellets tend to pass through enemies anyway.

I understand that "they hit it." That is why I asked "What happens after." After a bullet hits a specter, does the bullet disappear? Does it continue to the next mob?

The same thing that happens to everything during an explosion.
All the specter does is jump away from it real fast.

Does the specter diminish the blast damage at all?

Each projectile counts as a hit but one shotgun blast can only trigger the teleport once anyway.

So if someone shoots a shotgun at a specter and hits it with 3 pellets, it counts as 3 hits but it only triggers the teleporting once?

What is that, is it important? Do we need it?

Not especially. Just pointing that out.

It teleports towards whoever shoots it.
You can play specter pong with your team that way.

So if it is attacking a player, a shot from another player immediately breaks the attack and the specter teleports towards the shooting player?

Extreme circumstances require extreme measures.

Is the game in extreme circumstances?

But I am looking for a couple clarifications. One is "What happens to a bullet after it hit a specter?" Does it continue to the next mob or does it disappear?

The other is the damage. When you say "10%", does that mean 10% of the mob's full health or 10% of the weapon's normal damage?
 
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In case you didnt notice its SUPPOSED to pose a threat to everyone else except firebug and berserker, and if it has around as much hp as a gorefast its not like anyone else will have huge trouble taking it out with just a knife.

Umm, yes I noticed. But it looks as if you are confusing a couple things. One, it is supposed to be a threat to every class. The problem is that every other class has to attack the specter with the least powerful non-perked weapon.

And like said, you can always simply have one man carrying a melee weapon.

Doesn't work like that. Forcing a person to purchase a weapon doesn't seem fair and there is the built in delay of the person having to run from one side to the other.

I - for example - almost always carry a katana. Commando can have one along with scar and ak, support can have one along with shotgun and aa12, medic can have one along with medicgun and other weapons... that leaves only SS and Demo who would have difficulties with this specimen and SS deserves it too.

And forcing a player to reduce their carrying capacity by 3 doesn't strike you as unfair?

So that is the real reason, huh? Because SS and demo deserve to have difficulties.
 
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Challenging player's strategies is one thing. Forcing a team to have a firebug or berserker on the team or forcing everyone to purchase a katana, and take up valuable space, isn't good game play.

Isn't that what happens about the SS/Xbow > FP ? Most of the team will take at least one xbow to take them down =/ . Even if the Zerk / FB are useful against the Spectre ( remind me James bond 8D ) the other perk will still have the possibilities to take her out (spam a clip then knife / backpedal / clip ).
Dont forget that she's very slow, so even if she get close to you, you could avoid his melee if you have some good reflex (imagine knife against an husk, it must be a good example)

Edit : About SS / Demo > Demo are good against packed ennemies but suck at close combat (M32 against a gorefast who hug you 8D ?) so it fit for him , close enemies are his weakness. About SS, they are supposed to be good against people who got head / weakness that others can't properly aim . This Spec dont have a head's weakness, so SS is weak against .

I see no problem imo .
 
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Again, yes and no. Shooting the specter doesn't separate it from the group. Shooting the specter brings it closer to the group. You also think how long it takes for two people to solely focus on a single mob during suicidal play and mob speed.
It separates it from the enemy group so there won't be clots hugging whoever slashes it.
This also ecplains why the berserker doesn't have to walk for 5 seconds, if you read in context.

The only "problems" you point out is the actual threat the specimen is supposed to pose.
Yes, it is inconvenient, that is its threat factor, yes you need to do something to overcome it, be it having a firebug, a flamer, a berserker or a melee weapon, and no, it is probably not as bad as you make it out to be.

As for your questions.

Is the game in extreme circumstances?
Does "hard" feel more like "normal", "suicidal" more like "hard" and "normal" more like "baby mode"?
Is the sharpshooter not able to pretty much deal with an entire wave on his own with no enemy, not even the patriarch, really being his weakness at all?

One is "What happens to a bullet after it hit a specter?" Does it continue to the next mob or does it disappear?
Depends on how it is implemented.
I guess the easiest way is just to let the bullet hit the enemy but letting it pass through is an option too even though I am not sure that would be possible to implement.
Ultimately it doesn't matter at all but let's just say, it passes through.

The other is the damage. When you say "10%", does that mean 10% of the mob's full health or 10% of the weapon's normal damage?
When I said "10%" I meant, if you read everything in context, that the damage of the projectile is reduced by 90% down to 10%.
Thus the enemy gets 10% damage of the projectile. Let's say the teleport reflex is triggered by the pressure the projectiles deal to its skin (it's a bit on the blindfolded side after all) thus it gets a little scratch from it or something if you want an explanation.

So that is the real reason, huh? Because SS and demo deserve to have difficulties.
Yes. Yes of course.
Demo maybe not so much but the sharpshooter needs to feel some pain.
Why else did your blob specifically have no head, hm?

That and giving the firebug and the berserker, 2 perks that are perfectly replaceable by other perks that get the job done better right now, an edge over an enemy no other perk has. A reason to exist.
Why else did you make your blob not spawn a permanent acid puddle if killed by fire?
Because killing blobs is what you want the firebugs "job" to be.

The same goes for this one.
It's food for firebugs and zerkers and a real problem for everything else. Not impossible to deal with but inconvenient.
You know, like scrakes are to demos.
People are supposed to think "we could really use a firebug or berserker in our team right now" just like the demo with the scrake rushing towards him while he's stuck in a reload probably thinks "I really hope someone else shoots it with a crossbow".
Is that the case now? No.
Maybe this is not as true for the zerker but if you're a firebug, people will more often than not ask you to switch perks.
That's the case right now.

Also it's called "spectre" instead of "specter" now because british.
 
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I like it, but thinks it would basically make it impossible for most solo players, make it so ramboeing berserkers kill the group they left, and would kinda make the survival rate for anything not berserker thats the last survivor pretty much 0.

I mean, if I was a demo, or support, and I was the last one alive, Id prefer to see an FP than one of these things.
 
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Isn't that what happens about the SS/Xbow > FP ? Most of the team will take at least one xbow to take them down =/ .

Sure, but as mentioned before a single xbow can cover the entire team. One zerker can't always. Plus a player's running speed isn't affect when shooting the xbow.

Dont forget that she's very slow, so even if she get close to you, you could avoid his melee if you have some good reflex (imagine knife against an husk, it must be a good example)

Yeah, but you wouldn't knife a husk to death while there still are 200+ specimens bearing down on you.

Edit : About SS / Demo > Demo are good against packed ennemies but suck at close combat (M32 against a gorefast who hug you 8D ?)

Shoot the gorefast in the head with a grenade. If he isn't dead, while he does the limbo, shoot him with the pistol or other weapon.

This Spec dont have a head's weakness, so SS is weak against .

The SS, along with commando, support, demo and possibly medic, is weak against the specter because his weapons do 10% damage and the only effective weapon is an unperked knife.
 
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It separates it from the enemy group so there won't be clots hugging whoever slashes it.
This also ecplains why the berserker doesn't have to walk for 5 seconds, if you read in context.

I read it in context. I just misunderstood you. Relax, dude.

The only "problems" you point out is the actual threat the specimen is supposed to pose.
Yes, it is inconvenient, that is its threat factor, yes you need to do something to overcome it, be it having a firebug, a flamer, a berserker or a melee weapon, and no, it is probably not as bad as you make it out to be.

Well, how many strikes does it take to kill a gorefast with a knife? 2 then the gorefast meanders around without a head? Not a big deal. How many strikes does it take to kill a gorefast on suicidal with 6 players? 5? 6? 7? How long does it take? 4 seconds? 6 seconds? How far does the other mobs close in during those 4 to 6 or more seconds?

Does "hard" feel more like "normal", "suicidal" more like "hard" and "normal" more like "baby mode"?
Is the sharpshooter not able to pretty much deal with an entire wave on his own with no enemy, not even the patriarch, really being his weakness at all?

I think you are confusing two different things; "making the game harder for everyone" and "obviously trying to punish sharpshooters who use the m14."

What you are unintentionally doing is actually forcing sharpshooters to use the m14. I hate the m14 and only use it on candlesmoke because there really is no other option for the sharpie. On every other map, I use the xbow, 2 cannons, and the 9mm is my primary weapon. I am not the only one who uses this load out. By forcing the sharpie to carry a katana, you are forcing the sharpie to have to use the m14. I'd probably try to stick with the LAR (and far fewer bullets), but I'm guessing the net effect is "less space" = "lower weight but more hated m14."

Anyway, the absolutely easiest game I have ever played was 3 other medics and myself playing medic. Nothing ever got within 30 feet of us.

Depends on how it is implemented.

It doesn't depend on how it is implemented. It can be implement either way because it works that way now depending on the weapon. You need to decide because it is your specimen.

Ultimately it doesn't matter at all but let's just say, it passes through.

It makes a huge difference.

Bullets pass through: Players can shoot through the specter and do damage to mobs behind the specter.

Bullets stop: Depending on the situation, players have to either avoid shooting the specter or target the specter. Add in that specters then effectively become big bullet proof vests.[/quote]

When I said "10%" I meant, if you read everything in context, that the damage of the projectile is reduced by 90% down to 10%.

Again, I didn't understand.

With 10% damage, whether bullets pass through or not really makes a difference.


Yes. Yes of course.
Demo maybe not so much but the sharpshooter needs to feel some pain.

That is what I thought. It look as if specter was designed to primarily screw with sharpshooter but you couldn't figure out a fiar way so you just took away every projectile weapon.

Why else did your blob specifically have no head, hm?

There is a slight difference is remove a small damage multiplier and nerfing every single projectile weapon (90%) for every class that uses such weapons.

That and giving the firebug and the berserker, 2 perks that are perfectly replaceable by other perks that get the job done better right now, an edge over an enemy no other perk has. A reason to exist.

They have a "reason to exist." You speak of the berserker and firebug as if no one plays them. That is far from the truth.

Why else did you make your blob not spawn a permanent acid puddle if killed by fire?
Because killing blobs is what you want the firebugs "job" to be.

You seem to focus on one thing and ignore everything else. Yes, if Blob (and no idea why you keep bringing Blob into this. Makes no sense to compare imaginary specimens) could die one of three ways. TWO of those ways didn't leave an acid puddle and everyone spawned with the weapons to kill Blob.

The same goes for this one.

Far from it.

It's food for firebugs and zerkers and a real problem for everything else. Not impossible to deal with but inconvenient.

You think it is inconvenient. I think forcing people to swing an unperked knife for 4 seconds or more at a 6 player buffed gorefast on suicidal is a little more than "difficult."

It seemed like you wanted to strike back at the sharpshooters but I wanted to make sure before I mentioned it. I'm sorry if you think berserker has been pushed off the most popular class (and I don't think it has), but nerfing every single projectile and demolition weapon against a mob isn't the way to "equalize" things.

Maybe this is not as true for the zerker but if you're a firebug, people will more often than not ask you to switch perks.

I play mostly suicidal and I have yet to see anyone ask someone to change from playing a perk to another perk.
 
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After seeing peoples comments i think you should just go for the simple, the specimen should tall, thin and quite slow when walking. It should be killable with: bolts/bullets/fire/explosives/bolts and immune to headshots, but whenever you shoot this thing long enough or keep running away from it, it should enrage like a fp (make a movement to visualise its gonna teleport) and teleport up to the person who made the most damage or the closest to it, after it has damaged/killed that player it should teleport to another one who damaged it next. It should have more health than a gorefast and less health than a scrake with very fast attacks. Also this specimen should be stunned and weak to melee weapons and an easy target for zerkers (maybe decap the head with katana :p). I just hate the people running around maps on their own and trying to take out every zed by their self, etc. Kf-defence, this specimen should make things interesting ingame.

Anyway im just telling you my idea, i fully support yours and i like it and hopefully this new type of specimen should be added to kf soon. ;)
 
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Sure, but as mentioned before a single xbow can cover the entire team. One zerker can't always. Plus a player's running speed isn't affect when shooting the xbow.

There are the good/bad SS and some good/bad Zerks . Some can cover your mates's *** very well and some others .... *duh*. I remember that in some games when there is no xbow nearly, some say " SCRAKE! " on the mic, that way the zerk with his katana will come and 4 shot him. I can clearly imagine the same concept about shouting "SPECTRE !" on the mic .

Yeah, but you wouldn't knife a husk to death while there still are 200+ specimens bearing down on you.
Surely (or ... i rly hate them 8D), but like said 96 , you can shoot some bullets at her to pull her near you and cut it out / let your comrade do the job . Most of the time you're not alone .

Shoot the gorefast in the head with a grenade. If he isn't dead, while he does the limbo, shoot him with the pistol or other weapon.
I talk about close close combat x) . He's just in front of you , most of the time you will fire to the ground near him to kill him but this time he is really next to you . Will you really shoot him in the head at close range, taking the risk to blew you up ? You will take the knife / 9mm to damage him, slow/stop him out then explode him when he'll be @ good range . But okay, if you're surrounded, you can shoot at your legs with the m32, but that's not the same thing x).

That's a real fact, Demo + Close enemy = Blew up . Just as Zerk's weakness > Siren / Husk / crawler , Commando's Weakness > Fp - Scrake (not always), Fb's weakness > FP , Support > FP / Husk , SS > Nothing <_< , etc ..

The SS, along with commando, support, demo and possibly medic, is weak against the specter because his weapons do 10% damage and the only effective weapon is an unperked knife.
Weak doesnt mean useless .
Let's see a commando with his scar : 20*75's base damage (no perked).
He will damage the Spectre of an amount of 7.5 dmg / bullets (if the 10% rules is keeped). So, if we spam our Scar, we will affect her for 130 . Sure she will be at close range. You will then 2 shot-knife her (if you're alone).

And, dont forget that she is as small as the siren (i guess), so if you've enough aim, you can easily kill the specs behind / near her as she comes . And then, she is very slow, so the other spec will go faster than her , letting her behind . So she will "protect" the others spec few times, only crawler could be proctected by her, that's all .
 
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Is it just me or does alot of people go bat**** bonkers if someone even remotedly suggests an enemy that might cause sharpshooter to lose its demi-god status that makes everything so trivial and instead might have an enemy that might pose actually a minor challenge to kill it rather than being completely trivial shooting range yawning?

As for the idea itself, it's pretty brilliant but it would be beter if it could be killed with firearms - just make it very inconvenient thing to do :p
 
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