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New specimen "Blob"

No it isn't.
How is it not?

All ranged attackers and enemies whose melee is incredibly hard to dodge are, my good sir.
As soon as you exchange blows with the enemy, unless you have a medic devoted to nothing but healing you constantly, you are as good as dead.

Those permanent or long lasting acid puddles also totally do not limit the movement of the berserker more than for any other perk at all now, do they.
Also if it is weak enough to be no problem at all to a non-SS with a 9mm then it is probably as common as the stalker and that, my friend, a common ranged attacker that can temporarily limit your movement space would make a perk based on being mobile and getting all close and personal totally useless.

Yes, the berserker may spawn with a 9mm but at that point he might as well press the escape key and pick another perk because, you know, those are a tad better at shooting than a perk based on melee.
I'm all for giving the firebug a reason to exist but completely removing another perks reason to exist (even more) in exchange is not the way to go.
 
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I'm all for giving the firebug a reason to exist but completely removing another perks reason to exist (even more) in exchange is not the way to go.

I totally agree with you. I stressed that point in my Dualist perk idea.
One perk's existance is just as important as another perk, Killing Floor is about teamwork - every player is equally important in a team based scenario. Once you are given the choice to "prioritize" one perk over another, it ruins the game.

@NutterButter Also, I find it difficult to understand your reason behind permanent "pools of acid" when "blobs" die, why not just call it a by product and give it a different effect? i.e slows movement when walking through it. Anywho, those pools shouldn't last more than one wave at max or it would cause a major lag issue as a number of the KF community [including myself] are running the game on a relatively older PC. Plus, I'm hoping the update will add something to break up the "camping" nature of the game itself and as far as I can see the blob will only give more reason for players to camp one spot over and over again.
 
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How is it not?

Because I hadn't even thought about melee at the time.

All ranged attackers and enemies whose melee is incredibly hard to dodge are, my good sir.

So what does that mean? Any ranged attacker is immediately shot down "because it nerfs melee?" That doesn't make any sense at all.

Those permanent or long lasting acid puddles also totally do not limit the movement of the berserker more than for any other perk at all now, do they.

Not really. AGAIN, the acid puddles only there if Blob dies in a hail of bullets.

Also if it is weak enough to be no problem at all to a non-SS with a 9mm then it is probably as common as the stalker and that, my friend, a common ranged attacker that can temporarily limit your movement space would make a perk based on being mobile and getting all close and personal totally useless.

Nothing quite like taking a wild leap, the following that with a straw man, then finishing the argument with a point that is over the top. Let's look at these is order

"weak enough to be no problem at all to a non-SS with a 9mm" Is it weak? I suggested that it have the same hitpoints as a siren. Just because melee weapons can't hurt it (and every other weapon does) doesn't mean that it is weak.

"probably as common as the stalker" I didn't mention how common it would be, but considering it has as many hitpoints as a siren, I don't think it would show up often in groups of 3 or more as stalkers do. Probably more like a scrake.

"make a perk based on being mobile and getting all close and personal totally useless." Again, you are just going way over the top. Again, just because Blob COULD drop a small acid pool doesn't completely negate the entire berserker class. Yeesh.

There are two main functions I want Blob to address. One is for people to pay attention while they are playing the game. Just don't mindlessly shoot everything that shows up. Occasionally throw in a specimen where using bullets isn't always the best strategy. The other is to help prevent barricading.

You know, there is absolutely not a thing wrong for a berserker to have to call for help from his team. You complain on how Blob nerfs the berserker, but the berserker has nothing to fear from any mob. He has resistances, speed, can't be grabbed, can wade through groups without fear, and really has no money problems ever. Making the melee have to decide if he wants to call for a firebug isn't the worst thing in the world.

Yes, the berserker may spawn with a 9mm but at that point he might as well press the escape key and pick another perk because, you know, those are a tad better at shooting than a perk based on melee.

AGAIN, because ONE specimen is immune to melee weapons doesn't negate the berserker throughout the entire game. Geez dude. Just for arguments sake, let's say that 20 Blobs spawn in a game. So because 20 specimens out of 2800+ or so specimens are immune to melee, that completely removes the berserker to even exists.

Come on now.
 
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...Killing Floor is about teamwork - every player is equally important in a team based scenario. Once you are given the choice to "prioritize" one perk over another, it ruins the game.

You obviously didn't play the game before the big update. When there HAD to be a berserker on the team. If not more than one. When multiple FPs and scrakes caused fear and chaos and screams for the zerker to get to the big boys before the team was wiped out. With the last update, Tripwire has made it so every class can solo an FP and I think it is a lesser game for it. And I am not the only one.

Anyway, Blob DOES NOT prioritize one perk over another. Are you telling me that a zerker never uses the pistol EVER during a game? Or a grenade? I don't think so.

And as I mentioned in the post above, giving the berserker the option to call for a firebug isn't a bad thing.

@NutterButter Also, I find it difficult to understand your reason behind permanent "pools of acid" when "blobs" die, why not just call it a by product and give it a different effect? i.e slows movement when walking through it.

Because slowing movement down helps the team more than it hurts them.

Anywho, those pools shouldn't last more than one wave at max or it would cause a major lag issue as a number of the KF community [including myself] are running the game on a relatively older PC.

I doubt it. Say out of the entire game, 20 Blobs spawn. Blob can die in 3 ways and only one of those ways leave a small acid pool. But let's say all 20 leave the acid pool. So there are 20 graphics on the ground. Just like the blood graphic. Not an articulated dynamic model, but a small graphic. Put that in a wave where there may be 40 or so walking mobs with associated players, projectives, flamers, and such, I doubt there would be much of a hit. And that is if all 20 create a pool. Say a team grenades or flames half, then there are only 10.

Plus, I'm hoping the update will add something to break up the "camping" nature of the game itself

You aren't the only one.

and as far as I can see the blob will only give more reason for players to camp one spot over and over again.

I think it would be the opposite. If some team barricades themselves and spends the entier wave shooting down a hall, then they will have a nice layer of acid they have to run through twice each wave. If they pay attention then they can keep such pools to a minimum and even prevent them from existing.
 
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What is wrong with you?
Why are you even arguing that ranged enemies counter the berserker?
Even more so if they're flat out immune to melee too!
That is as specific of a counter as it gets.

There is absolutely no room for discussion, that thing counters the darn berserker and it doesn't matter if he spawns with his 9mm and grenades and whatnot.
You're one to talk about straw man arguments.

End of story.

You know, there is absolutely not a thing wrong for a berserker to have to call for help from his team. You complain on how Blob nerfs the berserker, but the berserker has nothing to fear from any mob. He has resistances, speed, can't be grabbed, can wade through groups without fear, and really has no money problems ever. Making the melee have to decide if he wants to call for a firebug isn't the worst thing in the world.
Whoops, there goes your credibility.

So the reason you keep discussing is obviously that you have no idea how to play as a berserker at all.
Might I even have spotted a zerker hater?
I thought those would be gone by now, as much as he has been nerfed since the last update.

Good day sir.
 
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Why are you even arguing that ranged enemies counter the berserker?
Even more so if they're flat out immune to melee too!
That is as specific of a counter as it gets.

Counter? Not really. Melee spawns with a weapon that can kill Blob. There is not a single class that can not kill Blob. Every class can kill Blob.

Anyways, the point I am arguing against (that I don't know how you could possibly miss) is that Blob ELIMINATES the berserker. Which it doesn't.

You're one to talk about straw man arguments.

If I've made one, please point it out.

So the reason you keep discussing is obviously that you have no idea how to play as a berserker at all.

Yeah, ok. Sure. As for how to play, I'll just point out that this weekend, I logged into a 'hard' game where there was a '9_6' player with a team that barricaded themselves on the third floor of Foundry from the 3rd wave on. When you can play without having to weld a door for safety, I'll take your playing advice under consideration. Until then...

Might I even have spotted a zerker hater?

If it makes you feel better, think whatever you like

Good day sir.[/QUOTE]

Good day.
 
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Yeah, that happened to be me.
Yeah, ok. Sure. As for how to play, I'll just point out that this weekend, I logged into a 'hard' game where there was a '9_6' player with a team that barricaded themselves on the third floor of Foundry from the 3rd wave on. When you can play without having to weld a door for safety, I'll take your playing advice under consideration. Until then...
What are you even trying to say?

Is welding that door so nothing comes from behind so you can heal and support teammates without a siren suddenly biting into your *** a bad strategy?
Let me tell you, if you have only a small team or are alone, it does work quite well.
Are you getting at the fact that it was just a "hard" game?
Then what were you doing there?
Do you think using that spot at just a hard game is "too good of a strategy" and that I am "not hardcore enough" for doing it?
Well excuuuse me.

Where were you even during that game?
I vaguely remember someone by the name of "nutterbutter".
Do not tell me you were that lv6 sharpshooter with a m14 that was ramboing all alone, far away from the team at the entry hall all the time.
Because in that case, you're in absolutely no position to say anything against my playstyle at all.

Truth be told, I was mostly just dicking around anyway. You know, playing for fun.
Also how does that nullify anything I said in any way whatsoever?
And why do you post my profile publicly?

You know if you're running out of arguments, just shutting up at least doesn't make you look like a douche.
 
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Yeah, that happened to be me.

What are you even trying to say?

"Yeah, ok. Sure. As for how to play, I'll just point out that this weekend, I logged into a 'hard' game where there was a '9_6' player with a team that barricaded themselves on the third floor of Foundry from the 3rd wave on. When you can play without having to weld a door for safety, I'll take your playing advice under consideration. Until then..."

Is welding that door so nothing comes from behind so you can heal and support teammates without a siren suddenly biting into your *** a bad strategy?

Welding doors is a poor players crutch. And if I remember correctly, there were at least 2 lvl 6 players, if not 3.

Are you getting at the fact that it was just a "hard" game?
Then what were you doing there?
Do you think using that spot at just a hard game is "too good of a strategy" and that I am "not hardcore enough" for doing it?
Well excuuuse me.

Wow, look at you go.

Do not tell me you were that lv6 sharpshooter with a m14 that was ramboing all alone, far away from the team at the entry hall all the time.

That was me but you didn't see an m14 from your vantage point way up from the action and in the corner. What you heard was a 9mm but I can understand you not recognizing a weapon while you were furiously welding the door to keep "a siren suddenly biting into your ***."

Also how does that nullify anything I said in any way whatsoever?

When discussing a topic with someone here, I am willing to take their advice and opinion at face value. When a person (such as you) claims "obviously that you have no idea how to play as a berserker at all" then you bring your own playing ability into the discussion.

Got that?

When you have advice I'll be happy to hear it. When you claim that I have no idea how play then I'll look at your playing. Sound fair?

And why do you post my profile publicly?

I just posted a public web page that is UNDER THE SAME NAME. Not like I posted your real name, address, or anything like that.

You know if you're running out of arguments, just shutting up at least doesn't make you look like a douche.

I'm not running out of arguments. You keep changing the arguments. I'm still on the same one of thinking Blob makes a good specimen. Needs tweaking sure, but still good. Now if you want to keep bring everything else into this thread, then make a thread somewhere else or send me a PM.

And now you are calling names. I'm not surprised.
 
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When discussing a topic with someone here, I am willing to take their advice and opinion at face value. When a person (such as you) claims "obviously that you have no idea how to play as a berserker at all" then you bring your own playing ability into the discussion.

Got that?

When you have advice I'll be happy to hear it. When you claim that I have no idea how play then I'll look at your playing. Sound fair?
Advice?
Do you even know what your own topic is about anymore?
I was not trying to give you advice.
If you want advice on playing berserker, there are more than enough tutorials out there telling you how to do it.
Protip: None of those say that the berserker has "nothing to fear from any mob".
That you are taking my performance in some random pub game as some sort of "evidence" for anything instead of your own experience says more about you than it says about me.
It is completely irrelevant and, frankly, off topic.

From the very start, all I said is that your enemy idea counters the berserker.
I provided more than enough reasons on why it does.

You kept saying it somehow does not even though it clear as day does without providing any actual counterarguments at all.
You then proceeded to describe how the berserker can "wade through enemy masses with no fear for any mob due to his damage resistance so him having to call for help for once would do no harm" which is pretty far from how the berserker actually plays (you also contradicted yourself here, just in case you haven't noticed. Why would he need to call for help if that enemy doesn't counter him?).

If you knew how to play berserker, you'd know that.
You just wouldn't say such a silly thing that can only come from someone who has only seen other people play zerker and just looked at some stats.

You then proceed to derail your own topic on the basis that I welded a door in some public game (which you were ramboing around in, mind you), which somehow means my word has no weight at all, completely ignoring what I was saying on topic.

All I was trying to do is getting you to acknowledge the simple fact that this thing is a berserker counter the same way, or even worse, the siren, bloat and husk are berserker counters.
Everything that defines it, ranged attack, acidpuddles, immunity to melee, everything counters melee and melee is just what defines being a berserker.

Whether or not that is bad is your thing to judge.
I suppose most people wouldn't see it as too much as a good thing since the zerker got a new counter and lost his niche, scrakes, after the last update.
Whether or not it is the case, however, is not open to discussion.
It's just using common sense, opening your eyes and looking at how that particular enemy would work.

That is what I wanted to get you to consider. You know, looking at the bigger picture.
Bringing something you have overlooked to your attention.

But since you're apparently resistant to any form of argumentation that says anything against your awesome idea, I clearly just wasted my time here.

In the light that, due to the sheer masses of them, no idea posted here probably has any chance of being implemented into the actual game though, disregard everything I said, your idea is awesome.

Good day.
 
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You obviously didn't play the game before the big update. When there HAD to be a berserker on the team. If not more than one. When multiple FPs and scrakes caused fear and chaos and screams for the zerker to get to the big boys before the team was wiped out.
Nope, I played with friends and we were relatively organized - we used VOIP to it's full potential to cordinate and flank specimens. We always had a duo Support team w/ HSG to quickly and efficiently dispatch scrakes and fleshpounds. This worked well up to hard mode - given this was only about 2 months after the game came out, I'd say we did quite well.

Anyway, Blob DOES NOT prioritize one perk over another. Are you telling me that a zerker never uses the pistol EVER during a game? Or a grenade? I don't think so.
Berserkers specializes in melee weaponry and they lose their speed bonues when using other weapons so tell me why a zerker's abilities should be compromised to the point where they are almost useless against the blob?

And as I mentioned in the post above, giving the berserker the option to call for a firebug isn't a bad thing.
Nope, this only supports the idea that you'll prioritize one perk over another.

Because slowing movement down helps the team more than it hurts them.
I can't wait to see how you explain that slowing movement helps the team more than it hurts them.

I doubt it. Say out of the entire game, 20 Blobs spawn. Blob can die in 3 ways and only one of those ways leave a small acid pool. But let's say all 20 leave the acid pool. So there are 20 graphics on the ground. Just like the blood graphic. Not an articulated dynamic model, but a small graphic. Put that in a wave where there may be 40 or so walking mobs with associated players, projectives, flamers, and such, I doubt there would be much of a hit. And that is if all 20 create a pool. Say a team grenades or flames half, then there are only 10.
Firstly, dont just say "I doubt it". Your baseless assumptions only proves your ignorance; you've never experienced the pain of playing games a on P4 desktop w/ a integrated graphics. And don't insult my friend by saying he should get better hardware because he can't, he's trying to finish college and has to financially support a relative in the hospital. The last thing I need to hear from you is "he shouldn't play if he don't have the hardware or because he busy with heavy responsibilities". He's still human and he has gaming needs just as much as we do. And if only 20 blobs spawn a whole game, I don't think they are worth the effort to inplemenet into the game. Anyone else with me on this?


I think it would be the opposite. If some team barricades themselves and spends the entier wave shooting down a hall, then they will have a nice layer of acid they have to run through twice each wave. If they pay attention then they can keep such pools to a minimum and even prevent them from existing.

I still don't see how this doesn't support the camping nature of the game. Firstly; "blobs" are ranged. Secondly; depending on how they die they could leave pools of acid which kills - tell me how this DOESNT restrict the movement of the team?
 
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If the pools go away with fire, you know whats going to happen? At the beginning of every game, someone will go Firebug and get a nice little flamer, then when the wave will end, he will switch to any other perk and leave the flamethrower at the camping spot. No one will go firebug, someone will only pick it up at the end of the round and burn the acid pools, then take back his weapon.

And again why would the acid stays on the ground, but when you get some on you, you dont die? If it gets through kevlar, i'm pretty sure it goes through leather (gloves). SO even if you try to wipe it out, if will simply get through your gloves and into your hands. Try to hold a weapon with acid burning your hands slowly.

Finally, why would explosives damage him? The explosives would get stuck into the gel and would not explode since its not a solid surface. And i dont believe your zed wouldn't have any vital organs, so why would the melee weapons be unable to damage him (a katana can go pretty far in almost anything and since this is gel, it will go right through it and slice the organs).


/Thread
 
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Time to do the massive 3 player response. :)


Advice?
Do you even know what your own topic is about anymore?
I was not trying to give you advice.
If you want advice on playing berserker, there are more than enough tutorials out there telling you how to do it.

I said advice and opinion. As I said as well, I'll take any person at face value but when you comment on my playing ability that means I can bring yours into the conversation as well.

Protip: None of those say that the berserker has "nothing to fear from any mob".

Protip: Read more threads on this board. Check out the thread that was just made on favorite perks. Read what people have said about berserkers.

That you are taking my performance in some random pub game as some sort of "evidence" for anything instead of your own experience says more about you than it says about me.

Whatever dude. You did the same thing with my single comment about berserkers and you still are. Let it go.

From the very start, all I said is that your enemy idea counters the berserker.

It counters the berserker the exact same way it counters every other class except flamer and demo. It does not eliminate the need for the berserker class.

You then proceeded to describe how the berserker can "wade through enemy masses with no fear for any mob due to his damage resistance so him having to call for help for once would do no harm" which is pretty far from how the berserker actually plays (you also contradicted yourself here, just in case you haven't noticed. Why would he need to call for help if that enemy doesn't counter him?).

Which the berserker class does. Which everyone with lvl 6 melee does. Which people brag about all of the time Also, no contradiction. Melee can kill Blob just like every other class can kill Blob. But the best way to kill Blob is with fire or demo. The melee would call for the flamer just like the SS, support, and medic would call for the best way, NOT THE ONLY WAY, to kill Blob.


If you knew how to play berserker, you'd know that.

You just wouldn't say such a silly thing that can only come from someone who has only seen other people play zerker and just looked at some stats.

See, won't let it go.

All I was trying to do is getting you to acknowledge the simple fact that this thing is a berserker counter the same way, or even worse, the siren, bloat and husk are berserker counters.

But it doesn't. You speak of it as if it is only a melee counter. It counters every other perk except for demo and firebug. AGAIN, every class can kill Blob. But there is a good, better, and best way to kill Blob.

Bringing something you have overlooked to your attention.

And I welcome such comments. But when you directly tell someone that they have no idea what they are talking about, multiple times, in no uncertain terms, don't expect the most polite replay.

In the light that, due to the sheer masses of them, no idea posted here probably has any chance of being implemented into the actual game though, disregard everything I said, your idea is awesome.

Good day.

No they don't. I have no illusions about that. But thanks for saying Blob is awesome.

If I didn't want your opinion, I wouldn't have replied to your posts.






Berserkers specializes in melee weaponry and they lose their speed bonues when using other weapons so tell me why a zerker's abilities should be compromised to the point where they are almost useless against the blob?

Every berserker I have ever been in a game with always has a backup weapon.

Nope, this only supports the idea that you'll prioritize one perk over another.

Every perk can kill Blob.

I can't wait to see how you explain that slowing movement helps the team more than it hurts them.

I thought the conversation was still in the "pools of acid affect specimens as well as players." If the pools don't affect specimens then slowing movement wouldn't help the team.

Firstly, dont just say "I doubt it". Your baseless assumptions only proves your ignorance; you've never experienced the pain of playing games a on P4 desktop w/ a integrated graphics. And don't insult my friend by saying he should get better hardware because he can't, he's trying to finish college and has to financially support a relative in the hospital. The last thing I need to hear from you is "he shouldn't play if he don't have the hardware or because he busy with heavy responsibilities". He's still human and he has gaming needs just as much as we do. And if only 20 blobs spawn a whole game, I don't think they are worth the effort to inplemenet into the game. Anyone else with me on this?

Wow. Really. Wow. You just made an assumption, insulted me, then told me what I have never experienced, and then just kept on going. And going. And going.

I said "I doubt it" because it was the polite way to reply without making a direct statement. If you had read earlier in the thread, someone who knows more about framerates than either of us, made his learned opinion known and it was that it would be fine.

I still don't see how this doesn't support the camping nature of the game. Firstly; "blobs" are ranged. Secondly; depending on how they die they could leave pools of acid which kills - tell me how this DOESNT restrict the movement of the team?

I'm not sure of your question. You've put a bunch of negatives everywhere. I'm going to reply and if I don't answer your question directly, just let me know and I'll try again. Think of every time you've been in a barricaded position. A closed room and a longish hall. If the one way out of the barricade leads to running through 20 feet of acid pools then players are going to lose health as they run out and armor as they run back in. Now imagine that at the end of the wave, a few players survive with 10 to 30 health. Can they run through the acid and not die? Maybe. Will they need to heal up first to make it? That burns time. Then they have to run back. Barricading, and this is the important part, not paying attention to what they are doing (mindlessly firing bullets at everything that moves) impacts the entire team throughout the game. But if they pay attention to what they are doing, then no acid pools.





If the pools go away with fire, you know whats going to happen?

Pools don't go away with fire. You kill Blob with bullets and you have to deal with the small acid pool throughout the game. That gives incentive to kill Blob in the best way possible.

And again why would the acid stays on the ground, but when you get some on you, you dont die?

The same way a bloat can vomit on you and a player doesn't necessarily die. Only if the damage drops his health to zero.

If it gets through kevlar, i'm pretty sure it goes through leather (gloves). SO even if you try to wipe it out, if will simply get through your gloves and into your hands. Try to hold a weapon with acid burning your hands slowly.

Same thing as a bloat attack. Dude, we are talking about a game where magazine are magically attached to weapons, money is magically added for kills, specimens spawn from the same spots every game, doors magically reappear at the beginning of each wave, and so on. Bloat attack blinds someone for a few seconds then their vision is perfect again.

Finally, why would explosives damage him? The explosives would get stuck into the gel and would not explode since its not a solid surface.

Not sure what "not a solid surface" has to do with anything. Grenades are timed, not triggered by contact.

And i dont believe your zed wouldn't have any vital organs, so why would the melee weapons be unable to damage him (a katana can go pretty far in almost anything and since this is gel, it will go right through it and slice the organs).

Blob is made up of gel. Just like running a knife through thick soup. Goes right through and comes right out.
 
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