New Ideas - May 2010

[jb_]

Most people have been talking about buffing/nerfing weapons since the last update. But that could cause other balance issues vs other specimens.

I remember when TWI introduced the HUSK into the game and boy that did change the gameplay in a good way.

I'd like to see another new specimen that will help to evolve the game experience more. Maybe a very fast moving zombie etc. Like the speed of L4D zombies with swaying and dodging alike.

...

I will based these changes on Suicidal difficulty. Newbies that dont play suicidal might not acknowledge these ideas. It will scale itself down on other difficulties too. Theres absolutely ZERO credit when you play any other difficulty than Suicidal with a LVL6 perk.

So please based your comments on Suicidal mode experience.

...

FLESH POUND
Decrease Headshot damage done by Xbow only. Making it a 2 shot kill. After the 1st shot, FP will rage. Giving the FP enough remaining HP to cause a little disturbance and putting players on FOCUS. Other Perks can shoot it down(waste ammo) or otherwise the 2nd Xbow shot will put it down.

SCRAKE
Again decrease the Headshot damage done by Xbow only. 1st Xbow shot putting the scrake on rage, leaving very little HP left, enough for a direct headshot from Hand Cannon to put it down.

XBOW
Needs to be more costly. Atleast make the price more costly to non-SS. Otherwise $500-$600 looks good to me. Reload time and ammo is fine, especially with the balance on FP and Scrake mentioned above.

M14
Needs reduction of Ammo Clips from 15 to around 7. This should stop noobs spamming shots and maybe users will actually try to aim properly. This will also give SCAR+lvl6 commando more justice in comparison.
M14 should be balanced so it is used Sharp and Conservatively and is only strong and low re-coil in the hands of a Sharp Shooter.
I can't imagine more recoil addded, it already has crazy recoil on non-SS perks.
Reload time is fine, because Handguns reload quicker still.

LEVER ACTION RIFLE(just a little praise)
An excellent side arm with M14. Stuns Husks on body shot and stuns Scrakes on Headshot. Deadly headshots to sirens and Husks. For a Tier 1 weapon, Brilliant!

COMMANDO
If Xbow and M14(sharp shooter) receives the balance as above mentioned, this will give Commando some justice. I can only think of a small 5% headshot bonus damage for LVL6 Commando.

BULPUP
This weapon has become useless on Suicidal mode since zombies move faster and have more HP. But I dont think anything needs to be done to it since it will affect AK47 and SCAR. Its still useful on normal and hard mode.

SIREN
This B**** still screams when its head gets blown off. Bit glitchy there since you loose HP from its 'headless scream' and die when you only have 5hp left lol

AA12 and Support Specialist
This weapon was supposed to be a beast! But sadly no. Its shards are inaccurate. Since it has a narrow firing stream, there should be more shards added so its guaranteed to hit upon fire. About 30%+ of the time, the shards miss even when shooting down the iron sight.
Either that adjustment or an extra clip. Because many people prefer to use the normal shotgun. You even see Support Specialists use shotgun + xbow? wtf?
It definitely needs more justice for its damn price. Its an AA12 for F*** sake.

FIREBUG
Needs another weapon. Or 'Fire rounds' on any weapon they use for extra burn damage. (Shotty + fire rounds = COOL!)

CHAINSAW
This weapon needs to be brought back to how it was before. Since its heavy, it makes up for power. Doesnt Balance since katana is lighter and stronger.
Nowadays, Berzerkers and Medics run around with Xbow and Katana. Cmon! That aint a Real Berzerker!
Before the Chainsaw nerf, Ive seen Real berzerker players running around with Katana and Chainsaw together. Its not easy but damn skillful.

MEDIC
Dont seem to have a problem here since Zombies are Buffed on Suicidal mode.

AMMO PRICE
There seems to be some weapons are cheaper to just sell and rebuy rather than refilling ammo. Like hunting shotgun and xbow. I dont know why this idea was input but I think its a bit silly and lame. Might need to review the ammo price system.

Thats about it for me. Just a new perspective.

 

[jb_]

ADD ON...

PATRIARCH
Since myself have also Solo'd all official maps with Sharp Shooter/suicidal. If we reduce the damage done by Xbow across the board. I dont see how Solo is possible anymore. It is a scaling system but this needs careful planing. But we know TWI has got it.

 

[nutterbutter]

FLESH POUND
Decrease Headshot damage done by Xbow only. Making it a 2 shot kill.

They can do that or just get rid of the stationary "raging" animation. Too much time to aim. Speed him up.

SCRAKE
Again decrease the Headshot damage done by Xbow only. 1st Xbow shot putting the scrake on rage, leaving very little HP left, enough for a direct headshot from Hand Cannon to put it down.

That is still plenty of time. Speed him up as well.

XBOW
Needs to be more costly. Atleast make the price more costly to non-SS. Otherwise $500-$600 looks good to me. Reload time and ammo is fine, especially with the balance on FP and Scrake mentioned above.[/quote[

I'm willing to push the xbow to 1000, reduce the bolts by half, and charge 50 for each bolt. And I mainly play SS.

M14
Needs reduction of Ammo Clips from 15 to around 7.

And reduce the insta-kill damage.

BULPUP
This weapon has become useless on Suicidal mode since zombies move faster and have more HP. But I dont think anything needs to be done to it since it will affect AK47 and SCAR. Its still useful on normal and hard mode.

I completely disagree about the bullpup being useless on suicidal. Tons of ammo, long long long shooting time on full auto and it does good damage. Love the bullpup.

AA12 and Support Specialist
This weapon was supposed to be a beast! But sadly no. Its shards are inaccurate.

Inaccurate, but it is buckshot. And it has multiple pellets. And it has penetration. Gotta take the good with bad.

AMMO PRICE
There seems to be some weapons are cheaper to just sell and rebuy rather than refilling ammo. Like hunting shotgun and xbow. I dont know why this idea was input but I think its a bit silly and lame. Might need to review the ammo price system.

I agree. It is a pain to have to resell and then purchase. Not to mention 1/4 of the time, the double-click doesn't register.

 

[HalfDemon]

Actually, everything you said there - I totally agree!
Well done for putting it all in one post!

 

[slavek]

Pretty much sums it up. Supported.

 

[Rudo]

Only thing I disagree with here is the Bullpup, the Bullpup is quite decent even on suicidal, hence it being the only assault rifle in the game when it first came out. The Crossbow is far too powerful to be bought for 400 DOSH and people are supposed to be accurate with the M14, so 15 clips is seriously too much.

 

[Ebay]

And yet the EBR would STILL do more damage than the scar with level 6.

Just decrease the bodyshot damage and leave it at that.

 

[Olivier]

Theres absolutely ZERO credit when you play any other difficulty than Suicidal with a LVL6 perk.

Disagree on this one. Kf-Survival, Kf-Deathpit, KF-Scrith and Kf-Thegrid. Try those on hard, and then try them on suicidal.

 

[HaTeMe]

FLESH POUND
Decrease Headshot damage done by Xbow only. Making it a 2 shot kill. After the 1st shot, FP will rage. Giving the FP enough remaining HP to cause a little disturbance and putting players on FOCUS. Other Perks can shoot it down(waste ammo) or otherwise the 2nd Xbow shot will put it down.

Meh, too easy. Make it 3 or 4 shots. Because, when you see a fleshpound, you shoot once to the head, it performs the rage animation, you shoot another, and when it starts running towards you, you take the 3rd shot and its down before it even reached you.

So thats why Id suggest 4 shots, to REALLY increase the difficulty. Yet it shouldnt be TOO hard because once those 3 shots have been taken the fleshpound is left with only a fraction of its original HP, therefor the rest of the team should be able to take it out easilly.

SCRAKE
Again decrease the Headshot damage done by Xbow only. 1st Xbow shot putting the scrake on rage, leaving very little HP left, enough for a direct headshot from Hand Cannon to put it down.
.

Yea that sounds reasonable I suppose. But If the fleshpound would take 4 shots like I suggested lol, a scrake should take 3, as in second shot leaves him with VERY low hp so you could just kill it with your 9mm

XBOW
Needs to be more costly. Atleast make the price more costly to non-SS. Otherwise $500-$600 looks good to me. Reload time and ammo is fine, especially with the balance on FP and Scrake mentioned above.

Yes, it definately needs to cost more. But, if they are going to make Fleshpounds and Scrakes more resistant to crossbow bolts, I dont think an increase in the cost is necessary. If they kept the crossbow the way it is now, it could aswell cost something like 1000 imo.

SIREN
This B**** still screams when its head gets blown off. Bit glitchy there since you loose HP from its 'headless scream' and die when you only have 5hp left lol

I think its supposed to be a "death scream", but its sorta badly timed. I mean, it should happen JUST BEFORE it dies, but at the moment it seems to happen when it falls down -_-

AA12 and Support Specialist
This weapon was supposed to be a beast! But sadly no. Its shards are inaccurate. Since it has a narrow firing stream, there should be more shards added so its guaranteed to hit upon fire. About 30%+ of the time, the shards miss even when shooting down the iron sight.
Either that adjustment or an extra clip. Because many people prefer to use the normal shotgun. You even see Support Specialists use shotgun + xbow? wtf?
It definitely needs more justice for its damn price. Its an AA12 for F*** sake.

I agree that its too prizy for non-support perks (

 

[jb_]

@HaTeMe

Yeh I know the suggestions you made shows that you want a more higher difficulty than suicidal. And according to your suggestions, Id like to suggest you try playing on a 'custom server'... why?

Because Me and a mate of mine were also frustrated that the game got too easy on suicidal so we created a custom server for all those lvl6 players looking for a challenge in OZ. We started it off with 15 Waves, as after Wave 10, the amount of zombies increase greatly. We still found it easy and beat patty but much more challenging.

So we tried punching the spawn numbers up to double on every wave and last wave being wave 10. Now that got harder, I remember I was playing Farm solo and I was at 800 kills by wave 7. And Wave 8 spawned an incredible 300zeds which I ended up getting toasted. All in all, it was challenging.

So if we inplement your suggestions, it might work on large maps like Farm with long shots being possible. But maps like BioticLabs, the whole team will get owned. Also make it very difficult for all current custom maps and will force map makers to create extra large maps that will end up looking like farm, Which is boring.

New Specimen will help balance things up a bit.

 

[jb_]

I did mention we are basing our comments on suicidal gameplay.

BULPUP
The reason why I think its useless is because;
Takes too long to put a zombie down compared to 9mm+SharpShooter. you shoot the head twice and the zombie still charges forward headless blocking your shots on other zombies. Now dont say 'nerf the 9mm' lol cmon. Bulpup is only useful for the Small fries in early waves. AK47 power is the minimum needed in suicidal. I've never seen a Commando lvl6 use bulpup on suicidal. Id rather sell it and get ammo/armor than carry the weight.
The time it takes for a Bulpup to put down 10 zombies, AK47 already done 20.
Theres no need to adjust the Bulpup since its well suited on other modes besides suicidal. No complains, just stating facts.


AA12
The problem isnt the price. I cant understand how a non-support specialist perks can even afford a $4000 AA12 on Suicidal, and expect it would be of some use? Clearly shows that someones been playing on beginner/normal mode for too long.
The problem is this. You receive 20 ammo per 6 clips, meaning 120 shots. I'd say 30% or more of those shots totally miss even if you aim down the iron sight at mid range. With the normal Shotgun, you Never miss a shot!
It needs more shards rather than just 5-6 shards that are visibly shooting out. In real life, you could hit a target at 70m distance. Its a damn beast of a weapon. Nothing needs to be changed about it except add shards so it will guaranty a hit!

M14
I know everyone seems to really hate how overpowering the M14 is and are suggesting to nerf it down crazy like they did with the chainsaw. But seriously. Just imagine, if you had only 6 clips of 20ammo, would you still see ppl spamming like a nutter? Ok, not a gd enough point? How about, we reduce the firing rate to half? Simple adjustments like this makes a huge difference. If you dont believe me, then try buying a M14 without ammo fill and play suicidal without spamming shots. You'll get owned and realise that you need to use the 9mm and Hand Cannon more. So it brings the gameplay similar as if you were using the xbow, 9mm, and HC.
Nerfing the power isnt necessary with the above adjustments. Insta-kill isnt a problem otherwise your just creating another SCAR like alternative weapon. Pointless.

XBOW
I dont mind Putting the price up for non-SharpShooters since its normal for all other weapons. But a simple adjustment like reducing the damage caused by a non-sharpshooters with the above adjustments I mentioned on SC and FP would be a good idea. Simple and affective mod. then yes it will take 3 shots on FP and 2.5 on SC by a non-sharp.

@Olivier
I know theres some custom maps that are very hard, but yeh, we're basing the conversation on official maps.

NEW SPECIMEN
With my above mentioned adjustments, I suggested a Very fast moving zombie charging at you giving you only the slightest split second to shoot FP's, Husks etc. This will totally change gameplay just like it did with the HUSK. it will make it harder to snipe sirens, SC and FP with the disruption from a fast charging zombie.
With Husks shooting, sirens screaming, Sc and FP closing in with all the small frie zombies and this crazy fast Charging zombie. It will make a huge difference in gameplay and keeping it FUN and beatable purely depended on your skills.

The game is very close to being balanced, its only a matter of time before TWI gets it right. Simple adjustments have huge affect. I just hope more ppl will see it that way, rather than requesting to nerf the crap out of the m14.

I do want a New specimen please TWI

 

[jb_]

Just a add-on comment...

Since the Flesh Pound and Scrake would be more immune to Xbow headshot based on my suggestions on 1st post, atleast it doesnt affect other perks keeping it balanced. Its already difficult enough for Commando Lvl6+SCAR vs Scrake + surrounding zombies.

 

[Demon_333]

Yer man excellent post, i totally agree

 

[Badbloody]

About AA12 :

This gun is fine imo . The AA makes a better DPS than a Shotty . The strength of the AA is that he can handle ****ty mob with single shot and can destroy a large amount of grouped specimen / big boys when spammed .
Each weapon from the supports got a "weak" and "strength" point .

Hunting > Great burst but slow fire rate . Shotty > Medium damage / medium rate . AA > Lesser pellets-Medium damage / crazy rate of fire .

THATS balanced.

About Commando :

Same as support, great balance . But im wondering about the SCAR, we should remove some magazines to balance it a little (Dont yell at me xD), 10 mags could be great .
I think that a Commando who waste 4 bullets for a single clot / crawler (what ? Single shot mode? Never heard about it x_x) dont deserve to finish the round with his weapons filled with 2-3 mags. Damn, save your ammos.

It could add a "Survival" side , hell , Commando doesn't means rambo . He's like the SS, he must bu accurate to be useful .

The "Counter strike Full's user" must learn to play survival , its boring to see people spam their weapons, thats an unskilled attitude T.T .

 

[airsoft343]

I agree with everything except the FP 2 hit kill... should be more like 3
But other than that, amazing!

 

[Surkov]

Gotta agree with bad bloody on the shotguns and SCAR, ALL the melee weapons need some work especially in Berserker hands, jb pretty much has it down (i agree with the others on the 1-3 shots for flesh pound though) the only thing i can add really is that the xbow should have a penetration reduction, I've seen Sharpshooters tear through mobs better than Demolition experts using that thing.

 

[CandleJack]

xbow should have a penetration reduction, I've seen Sharpshooters tear through mobs better than Demolition experts using that thing.

NO.

That's one of the main uses of the Xbow. It can do that because it was designed to do that from the outset. That's one of the defining features of the weapon. Take that away from it and you take away a part of the game.

 

[Surkov]

NO.

That's one of the main uses of the Xbow. It can do that because it was designed to do that from the outset. That's one of the defining features of the weapon. Take that away from it and you take away a part of the game.

I said lessen it not remove it, when a weapon for a SHARPSHOOTER is more effective at clearing mobs than a Demolition expert there might be a problem.

 

[mikeloeven]

this has probibally been done to death but the patriarch should NEVER be able to one shot a player who has 100 health let alone 100 health and body armor. if your down to half or even 3 quarters i can understand but no boss should ever be able to oneshot someone.