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Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?
- Thread starter brphoenix
- Start date
Although the idea in general is good, I think the +ammo capacity should not apply to the revolver, as holding any more than 5/6 rounds in a revolver is just ridiculous.
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ammo capacity != Bigger magazines.
Simple. An increase in ammo capacity means you can carry more ammo for a weapon. Like, more mags for it, overall.
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Guess what i found? It's quite.... interesting.
i think we've finally found the perfect tier3 weapon for the gunslinger!
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That previous one was Tier 1!
This one is Tier 2:
And this one is Tier 3:
Do want.
So:
In this order then?
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Do want.
So:
In this order then?
D:
Let's stop joking,ppl. I know, the thread's basically done now, as there's not much more to add. But there's always new people joining these forums, and I'd hate to see them voting "no" because of last-pages jokes D:
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Guess what i found? It's quite.... interesting.
That does look nice . . . Its like a pistol and a mini shotgun in one . . . I Want it! Thread reopened for tier3 weapon discussion ?
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I'll just throw it here.
Stop with the joke guns.
There.
Now, please, stop. You are ruining this thread, making it look like a joke. If it gets closed, it'll be YOUR fault.
Stop with the joke guns.
There.
Now, please, stop. You are ruining this thread, making it look like a joke. If it gets closed, it'll be YOUR fault.
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Most of those people who voted no didnt even read the topic. At least based on their replies.. Heck at first I was gonna bash this idea myself but after actually READING IT I realized it would be fun.
And the rest just voted no because they dont like pistols.
So, the real percentage would be 100% yes xD
And the rest just voted no because they dont like pistols.
So, the real percentage would be 100% yes xD
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How did so many end up voting anyway? 270 total votes? Aren't there fewer than 100 active members in the KF forum?
We either have lurkers voting yes, or HateMe is making alternate accounts to vote yes. Or the Patriarch is.
Also, I like pistols. That doesn't necessarily mean I like gunslinger.
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I am still failing to see how the Gunslinger perk will be useful in KF. So I'll start it out like this.
Killing Floor is a co-op game, where the players must help each other to survive. There are 7 perks, each with different characteristics and some perks are almost opposites of each other. This is done to encourage teamwork.
Now what I can gather from the posts I have read, the Gunslinger perk is a versatile, pistol wielding, ZED-Time based perk. I have a problem with the "versatile" part. Your idea of versatile is having the perk decent against all enemies but having it outshined by other perks if a certain enemy is their primary role.
I want to say this. Versatility in KF is a big NO-NO! Versatility won't encourage teamwork, it will destroy it! Because the Gunslinger perk seems to be able to take on any kind of enemy, there doesn't seem to be an obstacle that the Gunslinger can't overcome! Everyone will want to play as Gunslinger because of this! No one will want to play any of the other perks anymore. Diversity will disappear! Think of it this way. A team of 6 Commandos will be crushed by Fleshpounds and Scrakes. A team of 6 Support Specialists will get mauled by crawlers. But what's going to defeat a team of 6 Gunslingers? They are decent enough to take on any kind of enemy! Are you guys seeing what this perk is going to do to KF!? Please people, open your eyes! The Gunslinger still needs a weakness!
Killing Floor is a co-op game, where the players must help each other to survive. There are 7 perks, each with different characteristics and some perks are almost opposites of each other. This is done to encourage teamwork.
Now what I can gather from the posts I have read, the Gunslinger perk is a versatile, pistol wielding, ZED-Time based perk. I have a problem with the "versatile" part. Your idea of versatile is having the perk decent against all enemies but having it outshined by other perks if a certain enemy is their primary role.
I want to say this. Versatility in KF is a big NO-NO! Versatility won't encourage teamwork, it will destroy it! Because the Gunslinger perk seems to be able to take on any kind of enemy, there doesn't seem to be an obstacle that the Gunslinger can't overcome! Everyone will want to play as Gunslinger because of this! No one will want to play any of the other perks anymore. Diversity will disappear! Think of it this way. A team of 6 Commandos will be crushed by Fleshpounds and Scrakes. A team of 6 Support Specialists will get mauled by crawlers. But what's going to defeat a team of 6 Gunslingers? They are decent enough to take on any kind of enemy! Are you guys seeing what this perk is going to do to KF!? Please people, open your eyes! The Gunslinger still needs a weakness!
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"tl;dr" people, read what's underlined and what's in bold. This is gonna be long.
And you can't tell, from what you've read, that this perk is nothing like sharpshooter. Sure, both are versatile, and sure, you haven't mentioned not even once sharpshooter. Then, why am I mentioning it?
Because, if you replace every single time you wrote "Gunslinger" on your post by "Sharpshooter", then it'll be true. There's nothing that can stop current players to go 6-man sharpshooter. They are overpowered.
This perk was, yes, built to be versatile. HOWEVER, it is nowhere near sharpshooter's strength. You say it can handle everything fairly easily. Well, let's do the math with the numbers I've suggested here. Let's take, for example, the Tier 3 Revolver.
It's damage is 375~400. With perk bonuses (let's say he gets the same base damage bonus a sharpshooter does - 60%) it goes up to 600~640
Five rounds before reloading. This will give you a total of 3000~3200 damage before reloading. Let's assume we have a skilled and patient player - 100% headshots, this weapon would have 1.2 multiplier - and calculate the highest damage possible: 3600~3640
How much does the M14 deal with one clip? 100~115 damage per clip, 20 rounds, with perk bonus... 3200~3680. I have no idea what is its headshot multiplier, but as a Sharpshooter weapon, I'm pretty sure it's high. Around, say, 2x? Perhaps 1.5? So, let's take the lower example: 1.5
Assuming a skilled player has 50% headshot accuracy, 100% overall accuracy, the situation is like this: 1600~1840 damage go to bodyshots, and 1600~1840 go to headshot bonuses. But, let's not forget, Sharpshooters have a headshot damage bonus of 50%, so that 1600~1840 turn into 2400~2760. Oh, let's not forget, there's the standard headshot multiplier (applied to all weapons - no idea what's this one, so I'll ignore it as it won't change) and this weapon's multiplier (which I assume is 1.5), meaning that 2400~2760 is effectively 3600~4140.
The total damage a whole M14 clip can deal is 5200~5980.
That is overpowered.
Now, the crossbow. It deals 300 base damage. Sharpshooter bonuses makes it a 480, headshot multiplier is SIX (Yes, 6 times the normal damage. SIX), making it a 2880 damage. Now, the headshot multiplier kicks in: 2880*1.5 = 4320. The crossbow deals more damage in one headshot than the revolver deals in five.
It takes 1.8 seconds to reload the Crossbow. It takes four to reload the Revolver.
If you need specimens numbers, a Fleshpound's health on 6-man suicidal is 6562.5
All info here was taken from kf-wiki.
This perk's damage output is severely below sharpshooter's. I'm not doing this for every other perk, but I can almost assure you, they can deal more damage than the Gunslinger, or have "redeeming" aspects. I did, however, some calculations for ten-second damage output, and it turns out the SCAR deals less damage. It does, however, have faster reload with all weapons, low recoil, ability to see stalkers, enemies health bars... Those are redeeming aspects.
Thanks for reading this.
This was solely to prove the Gunslinger perk would be balanced.
The reason why I want it to be versatile, is so that a Gunslinger can help anyone near him, no matter what's his perk. He'll behave as a sharpshooter near a firebug, as a support near a demolitions... He compensates other perks flaws. But his lack of firepower and his "focused" weaponry make it so that he can't compensate his own flaws.
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Ok, this does not solve my problem. I am asking for a weakness here. Not a Gunslinger-Sharpshooter comparison. Yeah, his lack of firepower and his "focused" weaponry make it so that he can't compensate his own flaws. What flaws? Does he even have any flaws in the first place? Lack of firepower? I thought you said he was supposed to act as a Support near a Demolitions and a Support is all about firepower! The Sharpshooter DOES have a weakness and I pointed this out in a post you have read before but I'll quote it again to refresh your memory
To clarify, the Sharpshooter is only effective if he aims. He sucks at on the run combat and needs another player with him to cover his back while he is sniping. In short, he is easily overrun. THAT is a weakness. Not just having increased reloads or decreased damage. I say again, a weakness has to be a part of a perk that can get the player killed. It has to be a reason why a player might not want to a choose a certain perk.
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i think this perk is more like commando, which is why i like it. good for cleaning up the trash.
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What I meant by "act like a support near a demolitions" is to take his role. Perhaps Commando would've been a better example. It means he'll take down what gets close. What does a support take down? Specimens that are close to him. That's what I meant
A sharpshooter with M14 is hardly overran, because of its spam capabilities.
But on to Gunslingers' weaknesses:
- Small clips;
- Longer reloads (Four seconds to reload a weapon is quite long);
- Reduced "punch" compared to other weapons;
- Being outshined by every single other perk on their own "territory" (that's what makes the Sharpshooter so powerful: it outshines other perks)
There are strategic aspects that may be considered flaws depending on your point of view:
- Dual-wielding system: You trade ironsight accuracy and faster reloads for double the clip size. But, two times a small number is still a small number;
- Lack of a definitive role: players will constantly change playstyle if they want to adapt to their "surroundings" - this may confuse inexperienced players
But, by your definition of "weakness", I'd say the Gunslinger's real weakness is that he can't handle himself alone. If his friend leaves him, by either dieing, moving without him, or quits the game, the Gunslinger is probably as good as dead. That's what can get him killed.
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