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Is there going to be a good melee system?

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#21
Zetsumei said:
People can hit a baseball with a bat with relative ease.
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Speak for yourself >.<

The issue with free aim is that you do not really see where the gun is pointing while doing the bayonet animation (especially on widescreen monitors so the bottom of the image is cut off so you see less of your weapon to find out where its pointing).
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Yes you do. In my experience, of which I unfortunately have a lot, the free aim sets in after you release the charge. The strike first hits a point area exactly in the center of the screen, after which you have a short time in which to literally drag your bayonet to your target in nonsensical and unrealistic fashion before the strike damage is actually dealt.

Especially as there is no free aim in the charging stance, aka while charging it looks to be hitting in the center of your screen. So while an enemy is moving left of you, you'll turn your screen to the left and stab, so it feels like you have to stab ahead of the target.
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You also have to lead a target moving at a low velocity relative to your bullet at virtually point blank range. Might just be an issue with network or animation lag.

You do indeed have to stab ahead of your target, by more than what really seems natural. There should probably realistically be a delay between release and the strike damage but IMO it should be equal to the actual time it takes for the animation to be completed.
 
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#27
In reference to the bayo free-aim topic...I believe there was a patch that fixed that, last time I played RO, which was probly over a year ago:(, the melee always attacked the center of the screen, this might have changed since then but whatever

there really is no perfect melee system in any game, and this is especially true for pc, since having more actions requires more keys to be remembered, and no one wants to have to remember a specific key in the middle of a bayo fight, what we want is something that is smooth and can translate into mouseclicks and movement

I really don't care what TWI does with the melee, as long as it doesnt get too complicated

Oh and yes, melee's from behind SHOULD be an auto kill:D
 
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#28
VariousNames said:
PFfftthht.

You just indicated that you don't understand what I'm talking about. The melee is a game in and of itself, apart from the metagame. How it contributes to the metagame is aside from the fact that it is awesome. Have you ever played SPARTAAAAA for 3 weeks straight? No? Nein? Then you fail to grasp my point.

Have you ever played FullMJ-BoltsOnly for 3 months straight? No? Nein? Achtung, ditto.

I don't know what the hell a melee system is, by the way. It helps if you define your terms.
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Ive played Sparta once and it was boring and lame, ROs melee is lame, plain and simple. I have played bolts-only however and was addicted to it for a good week before I needed some PPSH action. I dont fail to grasp your point, your just part of that little cult that thinks the melee is absolutely awesome when Ive talked to most of my friends (and have had some midnight server convos) and majority thinks the melee is the weakest point of the game. Why do you wanna assume you know everything and answer your questions for me? If you wanna call pointing and clicking with 1 button a game in itself then fine whatever. That's not saying it cant be done efficiently but its just lame, the engine has its limits but this new one could have some serious potential in having some totally awesome melee fights. Your not the only one in the world whos put a crapload of hours into RO....because you seem very full of yourself.


I too hope it doesn't get too complicated, but something that immerses you and maybe requires just 2 different buttons and timing oriented. Everytime I get in a melee fight I kinda lose the immersion in the game and it just feels terribly awkward....though charging an auto knowing your gonna die but finally skewering him is friggin awesome.
 
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#31
Leopardi said:
RO's melee system is epic. Effective if you're skilled with it, unlike in todays games where you just press a button and anyone within 5m radius will die.
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Epic? Well like I said the animation is awkward (I tried it myself in real life). A side swing doesn't automatically mean everyone will die, with the sideswing you still need to aim in order to hit someone. ;)
 
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#32
Check out Mount & Blade: Warband. It might not be very relevant, as it has nothing to do with firearms, but that's the reason it has a really good melee combat system (to those who don't know - the game is a medieval, combat oriented rpg).
The system is rather complex, with the ability to control the directions of the swings, parrying, etc. I believe that some of the aspects, and specifically the way you control the direction of the swing - could be used in RO.

Basically to make a left swing you have to move the mouse to the left while pressing a key, to make an overhead swing you have to move the mouse up, etc. The same goes for parrying - you have to press the block button while moving the mouse in a certain direction to block a swing from that direction.

It might be complex for a game, where melee fighting doesn't occure too often, but I think that it could add a bit of variation and transform the melee fights into minigames, where the skill of the players has a great influence.
 
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#34
Morpheus said:
Ive played Sparta once and it was boring and lame, ROs melee is lame, plain and simple. I have played bolts-only however and was addicted to it for a good week before I needed some PPSH action. I dont fail to grasp your point, your just part of that little cult that thinks the melee is absolutely awesome when Ive talked to most of my friends (and have had some midnight server convos) and majority thinks the melee is the weakest point of the game. Why do you wanna assume you know everything and answer your questions for me? If you wanna call pointing and clicking with 1 button a game in itself then fine whatever. That's not saying it cant be done efficiently but its just lame, the engine has its limits but this new one could have some serious potential in having some totally awesome melee fights. Your not the only one in the world whos put a crapload of hours into RO....because you seem very full of yourself.


I too hope it doesn't get too complicated, but something that immerses you and maybe requires just 2 different buttons and timing oriented. Everytime I get in a melee fight I kinda lose the immersion in the game and it just feels terribly awkward....though charging an auto knowing your gonna die but finally skewering him is friggin awesome.
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I agree on all points Morpheus.
 
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#35
Just an idea, but it would be epic and realistic if the bayonnet could be stucked in the body until the player use his feet to take away the bayonnet...

That's why soldiers in the first world war liked to use Shevels rather than bayonnets, because its much easier to take it away from bodies..
;)

It would be nice too if we could send helmets in ennemies face to stun them..
(Poor russians, they wont be able to do it)

With a really nice melee system, this game will be the best one ;)
 
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#36
Morpheus said:
Ive played Sparta once and it was boring and lame, ROs melee is lame, plain and simple. I have played bolts-only however and was addicted to it for a good week before I needed some PPSH action. I dont fail to grasp your point, your just part of that little cult that thinks the melee is absolutely awesome when Ive talked to most of my friends (and have had some midnight server convos) and majority thinks the melee is the weakest point of the game. Why do you wanna assume you know everything and answer your questions for me? If you wanna call pointing and clicking with 1 button a game in itself then fine whatever. That's not saying it cant be done efficiently but its just lame, the engine has its limits but this new one could have some serious potential in having some totally awesome melee fights. Your not the only one in the world whos put a crapload of hours into RO....because you seem very full of yourself.
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It isn't pointing and clicking with 1 button. I've explained this thoroughly already and I feel no need to reiterate all of my points.

The problem here is you're already making it apparent you have no idea that you're talking about. You may have put a lot of hours into Ost, but as you said, you've played Sparta once. Also, I find it kind of disturbing that you were unable to detect the fact that my post was tongue in cheek. I'm not that pretentious, sorry to burst your bubble.

"I dont fail to grasp your point, your just part of that little cult that thinks the melee is absolutely awesome when Ive talked to most of my friends (and have had some midnight server convos) and majority thinks the melee is the weakest point of the game."

Anecdotal evidence and a bandwagon fallacy to boot.
 
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#37
VariousNames said:
Anecdotal evidence and a bandwagon fallacy to boot.
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stating your opinion as fact doesn't help your point much either.

Fact is though, that ROs melee system is indeed simple in so far that it doesn't utilize modifiers for the attacks, for example based on movement direction, it does not offer blocking, it only offers 2 attack modes (bayo and stock) and those require a comparably long time to change.
"Good" as the thread title says might be based on opinion, but a complex melee system certainly is something different of what Ostfront offers at the moment.
 
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#38
worluk said:
stating your opinion as fact doesn't help your point much either.

Fact is though, that ROs melee system is indeed simple in so far that it doesn't utilize modifiers for the attacks, for example based on movement direction, it does not offer blocking, it only offers 2 attack modes (bayo and stock) and those require a comparably long time to change.
"Good" as the thread title says might be based on opinion, but a complex melee system certainly is something different of what Ostfront offers at the moment.
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Firing a weapon only requires pressing mouse 1.

Ergo your point is bunk.

You know better than this, admit it.
 
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#39
VariousNames said:
Firing a weapon only requires pressing mouse 1.

Ergo your point is bunk.

You know better than this, admit it.
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where do we discuss the use of rifles or the like? Afaic the discussion is about melee systems and compared to implementations in other games ROs melee system is trivial.

I guess everyone here by now got that you consider Ostfronts point and click the best thing since sliced bread, good for you. Doesnt mean much to anyone else though and even less to the point that the system lacks options that work very well in other games.
 
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#40
worluk said:
where do we discuss the use of rifles or the like?
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You've got to be kidding me with this one.

Afaic the discussion is about melee systems and compared to implementations in other games ROs melee system is trivial.
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ROs melee system fails compared to what games in particular? It might help your case if you could mention a single one.

In games like Halo, Medal of Honor, and Call of Duty, you press the melee button, one single button, and you get an auto-lock-on aiming lunge swipe attack with a kill arc of about 4 feet that presses in about 5 feet deep. Basically you press E and everything in a giant radius is instantly killed.

In a game like Aliens vs Predator, as I've already pointed out, you've got an auto kill button, which is also ridiculous. The attacks have auto aim. This means there's no skill involved. I'm sorry if you're just dawning on this realization, but aiming and maneuvering is the point where the skill and the tactics come in. You know, like when you have a rifle and you aim and maneuver around cover, or dodge a line of fire? When you have to lead a target moving at a given velocity and intercept him with the trajectory of your round? You'd prefer what, exactly, two token buttons called "LIGHT" and "HEAVY?" Or maybe one giant one labeled "KILL?" It makes no difference. T

he current implementation in Ost allows for all of these things. It's honestly hurting my head and making me more cynical that you were unable to determine that the charging mechanism in Ost allows you to make a range of the power behind your strikes based on timing. It's the same ****.

No first person game that I know of has a more advanced melee combat system short of Age of Chivalry.

I guess everyone here by now got that you consider Ostfronts point and click the best thing since sliced bread, good for you. Doesnt mean much to anyone else though and even less to the point that the system lacks options that work very well in other games.
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How do you propose a block/counter mechanism for a rifle with a bayonet? How do you even parry a bayonet charge from an 8 pound rifle and a sprinting soldier loaded with gear?

More importantly, why oh why would a block/counter mechanism, if that's what you're proposing, even be important?
 
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