Request to future modders that primarily add new Theatres

[Psycho_Sam]

To be honest CC innovated the most on tanks and definately the first. You could turn off your engine, it could catch fire, crew members could die within the tank. Some great stuff, but I don't think the pop tanks really caught on with the community.

 

[PsYcH0_Ch!cKeN]

So much aggression in here.

@-[SiN]-bswearer:
Our tanks are far more complex than simply engines that catch fire. Yes CC was the first to add additional tank features and they should be applauded for that, but they were also the first mod to hit the community and were unfortunately then not able to take things any further. Shurek has spent hundreds of hours adding layers of complexity to our tank system that no-one else comes close to - 1.5 additional years of work can make a lot of difference.

And I think you should avoid using engine fire as an example, as that was in the original RO and therefore is no-one's original idea. Frankly, your last few posts are coming across extremely fanboyish. I think perhaps you should actually go back over some of the feature lists from various MN and DH releases before implying that we've done nothing of note.

@Worluk:
We genuinely have replaced entire class hierarchies in order to change high level variables. A perfect example is that dynamic bullet snap and suppression required me to swap out the entire weapon tree. ROWeapon continues to exist, however I slotted in a DHWeapon subclass with the required changes and everything below it, right down to the weapons, has been replaced with DH variants. If I could have avoided such a widespread replacement I would have done, however the way that RO is coded makes it extremely difficult. What could I possibly be changing that needs such a drastic change? We'll start with constants and go from there.

@All:
My precognition is telling me that this is starting to head down the path to flamewar. I think it would be a good idea for everyone to at this point agree to disagree and to drop it.

EDIT:

urban legends like "high pingers" on the unreal engine

You have no idea how happy I am to finally hear someone else point this out.

 

[worluk]

And I think you should avoid using engine fire as an example, as that was in the original RO and therefore is no-one's original idea.

Spreading fire wasnt in RO. The different positions in CC had different probability and sequences when they started burning.

We genuinely have replaced entire class hierarchies in order to change high level variables. A perfect example is that dynamic bullet snap and suppression required me to swap out the entire weapon tree. ROWeapon continues to exist, however I slotted in a DHWeapon subclass with the required changes and everything below it, right down to the weapons, has been replaced with DH variants. If I could have avoided such a widespread replacement I would have done, however the way that RO is coded makes it extremely difficult. What could I possibly be changing that needs such a drastic change? We'll start with constants and go from there.

So did CC => CCWeapon.
And well constants...
Constants are used in functions which i can overwrite very well. Search through the code, find the function that uses the constant, overwrite it, done. No need to replace a whole tree only cause of a constant.

I still fail to see the high level. There is no portion of code in the script tree you couldnt replace within a gametype to my knowledge (with the exception of native classes of course, but the same restriction stands for the mod switch).

@All:
I think it would be a good idea for everyone to at this point agree to disagree and to drop it.

You cant agree to disagree over facts. I have no intention to start a flamewar, but i would like to know where the gametype approach is limited (i worked with the switch on other mods, while there may be more direct ways with it, everything i wanted to do was still possible both ways).

As for bswearer and sam, while i appreciate your comments, it's offtopic
And to give credits where they belong, the crew killing iirc was done with AB already and its not like it was the invention of the wheel.


Edit:

mobile radioman

Just a fun fact, not caring who did what first or who thought of what first
We had the command version of the T26 modeled which was supposed to be able to call in artillery from the commanders position in the tank. The code was there, the LOD models, rig and animations were not, and it didnt really fit in any maps we had. Pity actually
Teamwork wise, DHs system is way more interesting and for the west front realistic.

 

[Psycho_Sam]

I didn't claim it was old boy, just stating that CC did some neat things with tanks using a mutator approach. I haven't played DH recently so I am not sure what their tanking system is like now, but when the new patch comes out I think I shall be inclined to download it and give it another play.

Edit: Lol, MN actually were going to do that too, I think it ran into some eplication problems If I remember correctly. Same with smoke barrages to replace artillery.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

i really hope everyone reading is wise enough to see that this isn't intended to be an attack towards any of the mods. it's merely using one mod style (addons, like CC, afterhourz etc...) as an example to show the effectiveness and logistics of that style compared to the option taken by other mods.

Please if possible make the mod an add on like CC and the afterhourz mappack was so the game can be run together with other maps in the normal server browser.

everything that has been discussed so far has provided support for the OP's suggestion. it's on topic and important to to point out all of the positives and negatives of each style to support why the OP's suggestion is the better option for the general community. this is why i like seeing the facts that have been explained because for somebody like me who knows nothing the about modding, it's important to get the input from actual modders. everything's been really enlightening and i think the discussion has been quite calm up to this point, so i hope it can continue down this path. the only "aggression" i see comes after facts are given and really, being aggressive isn't an inssue so long as it's not insulting or offensive.

tbh, it's really nice to see the three main guys from the three mods all in one thread discussing the facts and capabilities of the topic at hand. sharing and discussing the knowledge you all have can't be a bad thing.

 

[Zetsumei]

Thats the main problem with most mods. They take a lot of time and devotion and by the time your mod is done the game its ment for is almost death.

A part of the problem could be that the modteam want to make to much and during development new plans and options are made so they step away from the original shedule and plan and this will even take even more time.
The result is that some members will loose patience and will leave and the mod team have to do to much work with less people.

It would be the best if the mod could be released in steps. The sooner part 1 is ready the more interest people will have. The game is alive and your mod is there. New plans can be added in future downloads

I think the best to do is,

- Gather a team of people.
- Make a plan and time shedule.
- Try to release material asap
- and stick to the plan

Jup and one of the main advantages of making a mod like an add on is that it doesn't need as much content to be successful. So a mod could be released earlier with say only 2 maps and 2 new weapons, but in a nicely highly polished state.

So both the taste in the mouth for a mod is good and it releases early at peak interest times. And then more maps could be added one at a time. On its own 2 maps won't keep people their interest but if you can play regular maps next to it then people will stay interested.

 

[Harb]

Firstly when a server switches between vanilla and custom content it's a good bet that the majority of players won't have or don't want that content. From either have no knowledge of what it is or just not liking it. So when the server asks you to download a 1gb+ file at 50kb the server empties. It annoys the players who stay on and find a now dead server and annoys the players who left because they want to play just vanilla RO2. This can be seen in a lot of games. A recent example is COD where the server switches to a new map pack, server empties, rinse, repeat.

Secondly a lot of larger MODs want their own identity. An example of this would be Darkest Hour where they've built up their own community and identity. I don't think that would be possible if they became just another rotation within RO2. Out of the big 3 mods for RO, CC felt closest to RO (which is a compliment) and felt like it could easily slot within RO. DH and to a lesser extent MN have a very different feel. They belong as separate entities.

So I would prefer to see an option within RO2s main menu that allows you to switch between it and said MOD. The MOD keeps it identity yet it still informs players that custom content exists and they have a choice to explore it rather than have it foisted upon them.

 

[Le0]

Firstly when a server switches between vanilla and custom content it's a good bet that the majority of players won't have or don't want that content. From either have no knowledge of what it is or just not liking it. So when the server asks you to download a 1gb+ file at 50kb the server empties. It annoys the players who stay on and find a now dead server and annoys the players who left because they want to play just vanilla RO2. This can be seen in a lot of games. A recent example is COD where the server switches to a new map pack, server empties, rinse, repeat.

Secondly a lot of larger MODs want their own identity. An example of this would be Darkest Hour where they've built up their own community and identity. I don't think that would be possible if they became just another rotation within RO2. Out of the big 3 mods for RO, CC felt closest to RO (which is a compliment) and felt like it could easily slot within RO. DH and to a lesser extent MN have a very different feel. They belong as separate entities.

So I would prefer to see an option within RO2s main menu that allows you to switch between it and said MOD. The MOD keeps it identity yet it still informs players that custom content exists and they have a choice to explore it rather than have it foisted upon them.

I have to agree with Harb here, some mods need their own identity and deserve it.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

That is true, but the option to switch to a mod from within ROHOS would be nice.