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Demoman Smoke/Fog
- Thread starter Colt .45 killer
- Start date
There has to be some disadvantage to using an AoE weapon. A demoman being able to take out 6-10 mobs with one shot has to have some disadvantage to it and smoke is it. After all, if there isn't any smoke, then the demo man just keeps spamming the front of the group over and over again.
There has to be a balance with weapons (except for the m14 apparently) and continually spamming the grenade launcher in front of the group means the group has no visibility.
The demoman should be targeting groups of mobs away from the main group. That is why he is there. Just like the flamer. Thin the herd before it gets to the main group.
There has to be a balance with weapons (except for the m14 apparently) and continually spamming the grenade launcher in front of the group means the group has no visibility.
The demoman should be targeting groups of mobs away from the main group. That is why he is there. Just like the flamer. Thin the herd before it gets to the main group.
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Yea but imo his weakness shouldnt be an annoyance to other team members aswell. Thats why I said the smoke should be visible for the user only, so team members wouldnt be annoyd by it, but it would still be a disadvantage for the user.
And besides, grenade launchers already have quite a few of weaknesses:
1. Slow reload times
2. Cant be used up close
3. Rather limited ammo
4. High chance of hurting yourself
So... if you made the smoke visible to the user(s) only the weapon would still be balanced enough imo and wouldnt be spammed any more than it is now.
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Why not? They reap the benefits, yes? If the demo dude is doing what he is supposed to be doing, then everyone benefits when he pops 6 crawlers with one shot.
Are you also saying that no one should lose visibility from the flamer because "his weakness shouldn't be an annoyance to other team members?" That is the same thing.
AoE weapons have to have some disadvantage.
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Yes I agree completely that AoE weapons need to have disadvantages, but if the weakness will be an annoyance to the whole team, it will just make the perk hated.
Personally I find it annoying that every time someone goes demo, people start complaining about the smoke and they might even go as far as kicking the person from the game. Thats why I was saying the smoke could be visible to the users only, to prevent this from happening.
Tho, I was never particularry bothered by the smoke effect.
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The weakness isn't an annoyance to the whole team. Improper use makes it an annoyance to the whole team. The weakness has no effect on the team if the weapon is used properly.
ergo...
Idiots who can't play demo annoy the entire team. Demo can be incredibly powerful in a closed corridor or area. Good concentrations of mobs. But idiots want to shoot in front of the group. Complete idiots want to lay multiple grenades down in front of the group and aggro everything along with blocking everyone's vision for 4 or 5 seconds. Which brings smoke. Which screws over the whole team. The exact same thing happens when a flamer lays down an 10 second burst 5 feet in front of the team. The disadvantage (limited visibility) becomes and annoyance when used improperly.
Now if the demo does what they are supposed to do and shoot past the immediate mobs, then the entire game is easier. Thiner front lines means commandos and supports pick off the small stuff. Thinner front lines and less small junk means the sharpies pick of the large mobs.
I am. I almost always rambo (9mm, 2 cannons, xbow) because playing in a barricaded room or corridor is just too damn easy. This style also opens up another front for mobs and since the other group has an easier time they usually shoot in front of me all the time. Now, I don't care about that. I believe everyone should kill everything they can tap as far aways as possible, but I do get annoyed when demos and flamers shoot 3 feet in front of me. I can't see and the big stuff bounces which screws up my shots. And since I look for a challenge, I usually put myself in a position that if I miss 2 critical shots in a row, I'll die.
So I'll ask them nicely to stop and 90% of the time they will.
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True, in most cases. But in some maps/spots its really hard to avoid causing the smoke screen in someones view. Like, I dunno, that long hallway on bedlam? Or Foundry, 3rd floor.
Might not be as much of an annoyance to low-medium ranged perks but for sharpshooters it can be annoying no matter how far you shoot the nades.
Well what ever the solution is, we need something, because atm when ever I play demo I feel like a noob and any time I shoot a nade near my teammates I get this bad feeling as if I was doing something wrong LOL. Always have to watch out where you shoot so you dont bother anyone.
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KF IS A TEAM-BASED GAME! Same thing as lvl2 N00B coming to suicidal server and when the N00B enrages the FP should it only hurt the N00B? No because it attacks, who is ugliest (I dunno, LOL!) So if the Demoman spams a smokescreen at your face, it should be yours problem too, because you can always votekick a asshole player out.
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Personally I think it's enough of a disadvantage that Scrakes are near immune to grenades (only becoming enraged), that gorefasts take 2 grenades to the face to kill and that bloats take somewhere between 3 and 4 grenades to kill.
At close range demos are ****ed and at all times they are near helpless against scrakes.
You can play a huge map and see a scrake on the other side of the map obviously having you in mind and you can know that that Scrake will be your death. And it will be unless a berserker steps in to take care of it (rarely happens) You then have 2 choices. run away and hope someone kills the scrake or empty the whole Multi Grenade Launcher mag at the scrake followed by 1 shot from the single fire grenade launcher. This will enrage it and it will quickly close the distance and makes grenades unusable so after that you have to whip out the 9 mm and shot the scrake in the face until you or the scrake dies.
Demos can wipe our hordes of clots, crawlers and stalkers with a single grenade and a whole salvo of grenades can even kill a fleshpound instantly but all this requires range. A good long range. Once enemies are 5 meters or closer then all we have is the 9 mm. Using grenades any closer than that will seriously hurt us which makes stalkers particularly dangerous because you can fire a grenade at enemies further away only to have it hit a stealthed stalker that was right in your face. Killing the stalker but the demo as well.
I don't think a lot of other classes realise how helpless demos can be against scrakes. It's like the scissor to our paper.
The demo is purely a support class. More so than the actually named "support class" and it requires a lot of effort from the rest of the team for one demo to be able to function properly.
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Hiljaa
Thats entirely different thing, because as I said, in some cases you cant avoid causing a smokescreen on the team.
Oh yea, so the list actually goes more like
1. Slow reload times
2. Cant be used up close
3. Rather limited ammo
4. High chance of hurting yourself
5. Low damage on anything larger than a gorefast (and even gorefasts take up 2 hits)
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I fail to see any pun, small or otherwise, in your statement. You may be assuming that the sarcasm you've employed is a pun.
Your humor is as funny as demoman smoke/fog. Similes aside, I feel that demo's smoke disadvantage is fine as is, because (other than noobs raging Fleshpounds) all they do is create smoke. Who does smoke bother Primarily? The overpowered Sharpshooter class, who then proceeds to whine about not being able to obtain headshots.
Oh, I'm sorry Sharpshooter. Did one of my 36 grenade launcher rounds throw off one of your million billion M14 rounds? I apologize, I'll just sit here in the corner and let you kill everything while my pipe bomb saves your *** if a FP charges.
It's (not) like racial equality! The demolition and other subjugated classes are being taken advantage of by Sharpshooter Supremacists! Sharpshooters earn a disproportionately Greater amount of wages at the end of each round! Equal Rights!
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