Will snipers/marksmen get camo coats and wrapped rifles?

[Capt.Cool]

anyway, wasn't this topic about having camo and cloth wrapped "sniper" rifles?
to that i say sure, but perhaps make it achievable through rank/achievements/perks etc....

Yes. Nice pic btw, bswearer!

Seems like the 'cloak' or 'cape' the soldier is wearing in that Stalingrad miniature thingy is plash palatka, standard issue shelter half for EVERY russian soldier and can be used as sort of raincoat aswell.

It's not super special camouflage for sharpshooters only...

Yes. That what I thought, too.

So thats why personally i do not mind if special clothing gets given to snipers.
Where the snipers generally spawn far away from any regular squad truly operating on their own with their own mini mission.
And not in maps where the sniper spawns together with regular infantrymen as then he would have to wear regiment clothing (unless anyone find clear evidence that they did actually carry that stuff).

The keyword is SPECIAL clothing!
The cape (plash palatka) was nothing special, nearly every soviet infantry man got one.
I never asked for a ghillie suit!

 

[Zetsumei]

If it was regular within a squad to do those light customizations then logically i don't mind it. However then it would only make sense that regular infantrymen especially rifleman would have done a lot of those things as well.

And in most cases i just haven't seen many pictures of people adding linewrapping to their rifle (and especially not as thick as that sniper model) to get the idea that it was kind of regular usage of soldiers to camouflage that way within a squad. So that was my original question how common is it for a regular squadmember / marksman to add lining to his rifle because as far as i know it was hardly done.

I know that the soviet infantry carried a thin squared rain cape / tent. But that miniature model of the sniper showcases a thick wool cape that ends at an even level to the ground. So if you guys mean getting the actual squared rain poncho ingame then i have no issue, and i think especially on rainy maps it would be nice if most soldiers carried one of those things.

And in those pics how do you know those last 2 soldiers are not actual snipers? Although a thin lining in white makes a lot sense for me even for more regular soldiers as the regular brown rifle sticks out like a sore thumb in the snow.

 

[LemoN]

Well thank you for that expert observation with no substance.... if you got nothing worthwhile to say or can't explain yourself, save yourself some embarrassment.

You couldn't even provide a valid reason why, nothing to refute what I have said, thus you have no argument, no point and you're just wasting everybody's time.

At least I have the decency to refrain from calling you or what you say stupid..... besides I don't have to stoop to such a level since what you post is obvious enough.

Don't start crap you can't finish.

Really?

look a few posts above there and you will find my perfectly explained opinion backed up by simple facts.

Fact: you are merely stating an opinnion, those who are arguing against "snipers" are stating facts.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

right, about those pictures i posted,

the first two were the exteme cases that i personally think have been partly overdone by the movies. are really thick cloth wrapped rifles that common? well, it's really just too hard to tell. you'll see documentation of it in books but it's so rare to find in photos. i think part of the problem with photos is how often were there going to be pics of a "sniper" in action? if a sniper used really thick wrapping, we'd never have many pics of it as most all "sniper" photos are staged and not real action shots. unless of course the sniper's spotter had a camera with him because of this, again even though it may be sometimes be overexagerated, i wouldn't really care if it was added in single player "sniper" based missions.

as for marksmen and multiplayer, the last 3 pics were just showing the extent to which i was suggesting rifle wrapping and "camo" improvisation. i couldn't believe how hard it was to find photographic evidence of cloth wrapping in general, but i'm still amazed at that pic with the tank. most photos of soldiers with scoped rifles were typically staged and generally are just of the "sniper", the sniper and his spotter, or maybe a group of snipers. to see an action shot of a common looking infantryman "marksman" WITH a squad (and a tank too ) and then to see the light cloth wrapping, it's really quite an interesting find. the second and third pics, again idk if they were really marksmen or "snipers" but they were just used to show examples of light modification, which i'm not against for implimentation. i really like how DH added more variation to uniforms and gear and that's what i'm looking for in HOS. some small details like having a few marksmen, or even regular riflemen for that matter, with some lightly cloth wrapped rifles is imo acceptable and doesn't completely destroy the historical accuracy and immersion factors.

i just don't want to see rediculous looking "sniper" skins from COD and MOH multiplayer in RO multiplayer. i'm having trouble finding good in game screens but anyone who's played MOH:European Assault or COD3 just think of the multiplayer sections when you choose your skin and role.

 

[LogisticEarth]

*rage rage rage* I have "sniper" training *rage rage rage*

Really man, you seem to devote more time to trying to burn people than actually discussing the issue. 80% of your post is sophmoric fluff and reads like you're a disgruntled high schooler. Back on topic, here's a snippet that shows where you're going wrong:

You have your training, your basic method of operation, but when the enemy uses one tactic that counters your cookie-cutter approach, you then have to change things up..... which means sometimes a "Marksman" has to play as a "Sniper"

The thing is though, following RO's class system, the Marksman is always a marksman. He can change tactics, but it doesn't change the fundamental nature of the class. A marksman suddently playing as a "sniper" doesn't make the marksman an actual sniper anymore than a rifleman trying to get into a tank is a tank crewman. The marksman is still attached to his squad, he still spawns with his squad, and really he should be doing SOMETHING to assist his squad in holding/capping the target objectives. Crawling off into a hidey hold and "contributing" by whittling away enemy reinforcements is, in my opinion, a very ineffecient and poor use of the class.

And that's what brings it back to the original point of the thread, the marksman should not be decked out as a "sniper" if he's being deployed directly with his squad. The player would only realistically be a sniper if they had a seperate spawn that was a good distance removed from his team, and was intended by the mapper to act alone.

As for why the Russian marksman class is called a "sniper", it's because the Russians used the term for both the marksman role and the dedicated sniper role. But, as many others have said, the "sniper" and scharfschutze in game are both obviously intedended to be squad marksmen.

 

[Flogger23m]

Going to agree with Logistic Earth.

You can't recon or scout in RO, as the maps are pretty small. The game is also action oriented, so you can't wait out for long periods of time either.

No matter how you play, you can never act as a real sniper in RO due to limitations in the gameplay and maps.

 

[EvilHobo]

Hey guys, let's just not have scoped weapons in the game.
No whatever-you-want-to-call-thems for anyone to debate about!

Then you can all play like a typical squad, without the overglorified rifles with training wheels.

 

[Matt Baker]

Hey guys, let's just not have scoped weapons in the game.
No whatever-you-want-to-call-thems for anyone to debate about!

Then you can all play like a typical squad, without the overglorified rifles with training wheels.

No..

snipers balance the game so, no.

 

[Jaesperson]

i never liked the DIY-camo on weapons in multiplayer first person shooters. i like twi's idea of making you feel like a random soldier on the battlefield, who will be replaced by another random guy with the next "spawn" and not making you feel a single hero who wins the battle. now if you have the same cloth wrapped around your gun every time you spawn, it would feel strange, wouldnt it?
either make it random, to show that you "are" a different person at spawn or just leave it out for simplicity.
standard issue guns for everyone/random cloth or camouflage on spawn = no "identification" with the guy you are playing = feeling of being in a meatgrinder = well done

 

[Matt Baker]

i got no problem, with camo. but the first pictures are a bit overkill. But having some white sheets around, the rifle barrel for extra camo would be nice. You would have to customize your character, to the right map. or normal which is good for most areas. But not all solider should do this to the maximum, only solider who need to not be seen that easy laying there for longer times. Holding a flank alone. A normal soldier wouldn

 

[Capt.Cool]

Hey guys, let's just not have scoped weapons in the game.

You cant be serious, hobo. I consider this as a joke.

no "identification" with the guy you are playing = feeling of being in a meatgrinder = well done

No identification with your gamecharacter?!? Are you nuts?
To indentify yourself with your character is the best a game can do! Otherwise I have no reason to play that game!
So OF COURSE you should identify with your avatar!!!

 

[Zetsumei]

snipers balance the game

in almost all maps that have a sniper feature both sides with a sniper. Aka if you remove snipers nothing will change with the balance. And from a realism standpoint it would actually be more realistic to not have scoped rifles at all.

However as too many people absolutely want that weapon (and ww2 games feel incomplete for most without them), im up for the comprimise of having a scoped marksman ingame.

The idea of RO is that when you spawn you are a new soldier everytime instead of thesame soldier, so in that sense its ok to identify with a character but then you should never die .

 

[Jaesperson]

You cant be serious, hobo. I consider this as a joke.


No identification with your gamecharacter?!? Are you nuts?
To indentify yourself with your character is the best a game can do! Otherwise I have no reason to play that game!
So OF COURSE you should identify with your avatar!!!

of course you can identify with the guy you are playing at a time. but if every sniper rifle you spawn with has the same individual camo it gets kind of meh. i dont know how to put it in words easily. it's just my experience/point of view. i never liked these counter strike or day of defeat custom skins that gave your weapons an individual look (like fancy gloves, carvings in the buttstock etc.). i felt better playing a wargame that made everyone an equal part of the mess you had to go through

 

[Matt Baker]

in almost all maps that have a sniper feature both sides with a sniper. Aka if you remove snipers nothing will change with the balance. And from a realism standpoint it would actually be more realistic to not have scoped rifles at all.

However as too many people absolutely want that weapon (and ww2 games feel incomplete for most without them), im up for the comprimise of having a scoped marksman ingame.

The idea of RO is that when you spawn you are a new soldier everytime instead of thesame soldier, so in that sense its ok to identify with a character but then you should never die .

Balance.... balance, well. There are maps with lot of hiding places which you only show 1mm of your head (don

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

*Recycled Tripe Already Discussed Multiple Times Before and Refuted*

Oh, are you still talking about this?

Sorry, I kinda moved on from 4 days ago since it was just more foot stomping and repeating the same stuff over and over again.

Regardless, my original point in joining in this little pow wow is that I'd like to see both options of uniform/dress and weapon features for both marksman/sharpshooter and sniper and if it would please other people here, then make two different classes with two different functions.

There are people here who want it left as is, and others here who want actual "Snipers" to be represented in the game since they were an important factor in WWII not to be left out.... regardless of whatever other technicality complaints you can drum up.

Now, do you have any ideas or suggestions on how to implement this in the game or are you going to stomp your feet some more and tell us all it shouldn't happen?

Going to agree with Logistic Earth.

You can't recon or scout in RO, as the maps are pretty small. The game is also action oriented, so you can't wait out for long periods of time either.

No matter how you play, you can never act as a real sniper in RO due to limitations in the gameplay and maps.

As mentioned before, there are limitations in the game that prevent you from actually playing any of the roles exactly as they were in real life, including the vehicles used in game..... I don't see how that argument should be even considered valid.

The maps are quite big actually and seem to be almost as large as they should be considering where one force in real life would prepare for an attack just outside of a village (as an example) and the other force would be holding and preparing to defend in the village. There's enough space and distance in many maps for people to go around or position themselves outside of the hot zone and attack from a distance, or recon if one was so inclined to do so.

If the maps were that small, then you wouldn't need scopes in the first place.... but if you have more then enough space to move around, more then enough space to take someone out at a long distance and the maps have enough space for you to have your bullets drop because the target is too far away..... I'd say they're big enough.

 

[CrazyThumbs]

Regardless, my original point in joining in this little pow wow is that I'd like to see both options of uniform/dress and weapon features for both marksman/sharpshooter and sniper and if it would please other people here, then make two different classes with two different functions.

There are people here who want it left as is, and others here who want actual "Snipers" to be represented in the game since they were an important factor in WWII not to be left out.... regardless of whatever other technicality complaints you can drum up.

Now, do you have any ideas or suggestions on how to implement this in the game or are you going to stomp your feet some more and tell us all it shouldn't happen?

There were lots of roles in WWII that were very important that get left out. Mainly because it's out of scope of the game. A game aiming for realism at the platoon/company level does not need specialty units that operated at higher levels of command, say division, corps, or army level.

And when platoons and squads already have designated marksmen, there's really no need to add the extra class of an actual sniper. It's completely redundant.
So for a realism game, why not pick the more historically accurate of the two and just go with that.

I really don't get your last part there either. The point of the thread is for discussing ideas, not to unanimously agree with yours.

 

[Oldih]

A game aiming for realism at the platoon/company level does not need specialty units that operated at higher levels of command, say division, corps, or army level.

Indeed. If I wanted to really mess with some big picture and become self-proclaimed armchair world conqueror, I might pick up Total War game or Hearts of Iron to begin with, not RO:HoS.

If the maps were that small, then you wouldn't need scopes in the first place

Tell that to basically every regular WW2 shooter that has shoebox sized multiplayer maps with max open area barely exceeding 70-100 yards, yet they still have those scoped weapons around.

Somehow this sniper vs sharpshooter reminds me about battleship vs battlecruiser: both have diffrent definitions and roles but they end up doing more or less similiar stuff once **** hits the fan.

And as small edit, while the scale of the game certainly is not an excuse to leave something out of it, it still is a good reminder to keep things relative to the scale. I doubt having player controlled flights or squadrons of fighters or bombers in the game would do any good even though they were present during the real battle.

 

[Capt.Cool]

A game aiming for realism at the platoon/company level does not need specialty units that operated at higher levels of command, say division, corps, or army level.

Sorry, but snipers were deployed at platoon level!

"To examine the tactics of the Soviet Sniper, it is necessary to review the philosophy for using snipers in the first place. Under the Soviet system, snipers were fielded in teams of two with a sniper and an observer. Both team members were qualified snipers and changed roles after each kill. The sniper was to provide both scouting duties as well as point and indirect fire to disrupt enemy activities and communications. The observer assisted in spotting potential targets, provided security and recorded and confirmed kills. Each sniper carried a "kill book" where they recorded time, date, location and details of each kill or engagement. This book was also used to record detailed information on German troop concentrations and movements. As mentioned before, the sniper was assigned at platoon level and reported directly to the platoon leader. Most sniper teams worked autonomously and ranged ahead of advancing formations or across an assigned frontal sector."

the full article can be read here.

 

[CrazyThumbs]

...As mentioned before, the sniper was assigned at platoon level and reported directly to the platoon leader. Most sniper teams worked autonomously and ranged ahead of advancing formations or across an assigned frontal sector

Interesting, someone posted earlier that in the Russian system they used the same name both roles, platoon assigned marksman/sharpshooter, and actual sniper. Which is what I base my previous post on.
Anyone have more information on that?

Here's another thing I found in the article,

German snipers were posted everywhere throughout the German combat forces. Up to 22 German snipers were typically
deployed with a German rifle battalion. Each sniper was paired with a marksman from that battalion in a two-man team.”

It acknowledges the difference between the two, but it seems they would work together. At least for the Germans.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

... I really don't get your last part there either. The point of the thread is for discussing ideas, not to unanimously agree with yours.

Never said you had to agree with me, but the topic of this thread is about the uniforms and sniper class.... thus one would think posting ideas and suggestions of this topic would be required for the topic.

If you posted your opinion that you don't like the idea and see no need to contribute any ideas or suggestions to the topic, then logically you just made your view apparent and no longer have anything to contribute to the conversation other then to continually tell other people you don't like their ideas or suggestions..... we already know.

At times I will go into a thread, voice my opinion that I don't like an idea being suggested and explain why, but more often then not, I will also present compromises or alternative ideas which may make everybody happy. If they don't, meh.... time to move onto another topic then.

I at least try to be constructive so that some sort of compromise can be met that pleases as many people as possible.

If plenty of people want a "Sniper" class in game (which many here seem to want) then where's the harm in brain storming on how to implement this idea?

This isn't a big important make/break situation for the game if the classes are modified or not, but I personally would like to have the opportunity to blend in with my surrounding environment, rather then constantly be easy to spot because of my lime green uniform and almost perfectly washed face.