Tanks in ROHOS

[Napoleon Blownapart]

other tanks and Sdkfz. 9s (18ton half-tracks... 2 were needed to pull a tiger) where used to tow damaged takes back to HQs for repairs (like the spawns) some repairs were done in the field as well... just read Otto Carius's book. BUT!!!!! they were done at night very long after a battle. As for towing tanks... that was done in the thick of it.

Now... as for repairs:
-only in spawn if at all
-tracks, vision ports (i know it was done in the field as well), road wheels should be repairable... anything other than that... ei: engine, turret rings, turrets, torsion bars etc would take hours, days or weeks to repair.

The reason I saw tracks and road-wheels should be repairable it b/c some tanks carrier spare road-wheels on them along with spare track (as armor... but it would also be used) all the is need to do a repair like that is some muscle, wrench and hammers... not anything crazy. I am a big tanker in RO and yes if ur tank is hit why don;t just die and let it respawn? well for me... it feels fake and when i play with guys who feel the same way... it just takes away from the intensity of the game.

I think tanks (even on tank maps) this is to enforce team playing and smarts... non of this lone tiger tank charge... tanks were very special weapons and they wanted to be protected and last as long as possible. So, that's why i am pro-repair... for those nice big maps that last an hour or so.

_______

just had this idea... tank death animations.. very rarely do tanks blow up like they do in RO... turrets will get blown off, but more fires and such would be nice... also if they lasted a bit longer... (this would only work if tanks were limited) I would be awesome if dead tanks turned into static objects and that way could burn for whole maps once "killed"... the Cologne Panther burned for days after it was knocked out by that Pershing

 

[Bashenka]

Yeah, different tank-death animations are a must.

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

A few random points...

Repairing tracks requires more time than there is in a single round, plus the absence of enemy. Repairing/replacing a road wheel even less likely. So lets not get into the idea of "battlefield repairs". Just not going to happen on our scale. Usually requires lifting gear/functioning winch on another vehicle anyway.

Replacement of items like shattered vision blocks is at least possible.

What did a crew do when the vehicle was disabled? Depended on the crew and the situation. Not to mention the enemy. If a disabled tank continues firing, pump rounds into it until it stops. Obvious, really.

Besides all that - most people want to play the part of combat soldiers, not effing mechanics!

 

[Zetsumei]

I do want to poor some vodka in those diesel engines though

But the other question implied is what will gamers do in such a situation as their tank is broken. And what would real people do. And how do these situations correspond to each other.

As for example in the case of tankers staying in the tank using the gun, and simply waiting to be picked up 2 hours later by a towing vehicle, is probably not something that people can do realisticially within the time span either.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

So lets not get into the idea of "battlefield repairs". Just not going to happen on our scale.

Replacement of items like shattered vision blocks is at least possible.

i hope others took this as more "confirmation" there will be tanks?

 

[Matt Baker]

Hell yea, I

 

[LionbI4]

Main idea is to have realistic combat.

When I hit directly into tracks with HE ammo, tracks should be destroyed in 99% cases.
If they are not - its arcade game. Its better to play Battlefield then.

Lowered repair time is compromise, which is required for better gameplay. Since noone is going to spend 30 minutes, repairing the tank.

 

[RedGuardist]

You can read the whole Wilsonam

 

[LionbI4]

You can read the whole Wilsonam

 

[Zetsumei]

who said that the damage system would stay thesame. If anything if twi improves things on vehicles the damage system is probably in one of the highest positions.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Main idea is to have realistic combat.

When I hit directly into tracks with HE ammo, tracks should be destroyed in 99% cases.
If they are not - its arcade game. Its better to play Battlefield then.

Lowered repair time is compromise, which is required for better gameplay. Since noone is going to spend 30 minutes, repairing the tank.

Look at Arad as an example of a standard tank map..... how many areas do you think you're going to be safe enough in to even attempt a repair without being shelled by several other enemy tanks?

You may like to pop out and try and fix your tank, further wasting game play time, point accumulation time, and your lives, but I doubt many others would be willing to risk their life trying to do such a thing.

And speeding up the repair time doesn't make any sense either. You spoke of being an arcade game because damage to tracks currently isn't realistic, yet you want to compromise one form of non-realism for another form of non-realism that I doubt many would even try to use in game.

How long of a time would you think would be a good amount to be used in game to repair damaged tracks? 5 Minutes? 30 Seconds? 15 Minutes?

Personally I feel anything less then 5 minutes would be totally unrealistic and anything above 5 minutes would pretty well ensure your death in the middle of repair.

 

[LionbI4]

Look at Arad as an example of a standard tank map..... how many areas do you think you're going to be safe enough in to even attempt a repair without being shelled by several other enemy tanks?

You know, war is not safe at all.
If my tank is damaged in area, where I can feel safe, when I can try to repair it. I could use a smoke to cover my tank, while repairing it. I could ask teammates to push my tank into cover. Its up to me, if I'm going to risk or not. On some maps (in Darkest Hour) its very annoying not to be able to repair a tracks. You may have only 1 tank, and you may be stuck far away from any enemies.

You may like to pop out and try and fix your tank, further wasting game play time, point accumulation time, and your lives, but I doubt many others would be willing to risk their life trying to do such a thing.

Whats what people did in real life, man. But currently, what you do, if your tank's track are damaged? Many people just do suicide to quickly respawn near fresh tank.

And speeding up the repair time doesn't make any sense either. You spoke of being an arcade game because damage to tracks currently isn't realistic, yet you want to compromise one form of non-realism for another form of non-realism that I doubt many would even try to use in game.

Because I want to make COMBAT non-arcade. Non-arcade tank battles. Realistic damage to tanks. Realistic strategies. More choices in combat.
If I need to add arcade NON COMBAT feature to make COMBAT better, I would go for it. Actually feature (track repair) itself is not arcade (if implemented well).
Its time may be unrealistic for it.

How long of a time would you think would be a good amount to be used in game to repair damaged tracks? 5 Minutes? 30 Seconds? 15 Minutes?

I would like to have it configurable by server admin.

Personally I feel anything less then 5 minutes would be totally unrealistic and anything above 5 minutes would pretty well ensure your death in the middle of repair.

Totally unrealistic is then I hit tank tracks from 5 meters away with HE and do no damage.
Totally unrealistic is leaving your tank, when tracks are damaged.

 

[Kashash]

Hey how about making time delay for respawning if a player commit suicide as a punishment? This would force players to get back to the base on foot just like in RL, how many times you read in books about tank crews going back to the base after losing a tank. Last night I was playing on the tank map and after I lost a tank I've found a jeep and although I could just commit suicide and be at spawn in seconds but I decided to take a ride and it felt so cool and realistic, you gotta implement something like this in game beacuse even 3 minutes walking on foot back to the base gives you fun of realism. Also it could be extra points if you'll manage to get back for surviving this would encourage players to stay alive even more as they would gain points for that. Cause that repairing idea doesn't seem good for me. To much of a Battlefield game like or some cheap tank arcade game with those mini line in bottom of the screen showing you repairing progress...

 

[LionbI4]

Hey how about making time delay for respawning if a player commit suicide as a punishment?
...

Here can work "indivudual reinforcements" thing, suggested by Zets.
How about receiving even more fun of realism by traveling by foot for 2 hours before entering into the battle?

 

[Temporary]

In 10 years, there will still be "realistic/unrealistic" debate on the forum...

Men, this is a GAME, if you want some psycho uber-realistic simulation don't look for a commercial multiplayer game (<=> RO:HOS), only mods can go that crazy about the "realism realism".

And about "repairing", this is NOT fitting with the game mechanics.

definition : Game mechanics are a construct of rules intended to produce an enjoyable game or gameplay.

ENJOY-FREAKING-ABLE

If you want to repair, you need to make it Battlefield-like (you use a simple wrench to fully repair a tank in less than a minute).

Over that minute it's a waste of time, during your happy I'm-fixing-mah-car-lol time (with some QTE bs maybe) you should be helping your team winning the round.
That means leaving the tank, rushing to die, respawning and bringing a new tank to the frontline.

nb : you need to leave your realism-ego outside to do that



About destroying tracks with HE hit, IF there is tanks, and IF it doesn't make tanks into weak milkpacks on wheels, maybe it's gonna be implemented, TWI will decide.

It needs to be a balanced game mechanic, you can't put it in the game just because it's "realistic".
ex : vanilla ArmA 1 tanks were such a joke it wasn't enjoyable anymore... 1-rocket-hit-disabled/killed :s

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

Hey how about making time delay for respawning if a player commit suicide as a punishment?

There is an idea there: I think we may have to instigate compulsory counselling for anyone who attempts to commit suicide...

 

[Matt Baker]

There is also the issue at people commit suicide to get a class, the person chooses the class then take suicide. The person who chooses the class automatically get it because he

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

You know, war is not safe at all.
If my tank is damaged in area, where I can feel safe, when I can try to repair it.

The problem is that usually once your tracks are damaged in the game, you can't move to a safer location and you're stuck right in the same spot as where you were attacked, thus not a safe spot..... as well, since in this game players respawn, they're going to make their way back to where you are soon enough.... so I am not sure how you'd feel safe at anytime to try and repair.

I could use a smoke to cover my tank, while repairing it.

As it currently stands, tank crews don't have smoke, nor would the smoke last long enough for a repair "in real life".... and on top of that, a tank would take up much of that smoke area, thus all one would need to do is shoot at the smoke and if they're using an HE, you're not going to live very long.

I could ask teammates to push my tank into cover.

A tank is not your mom's K-Car you can simply push into neutral and shove to the side of the road..... you'd need another tank or similar to do such a thing, it's not currently a feature in the game to even do this, you now put two tanks at risk in the game by making them very close in proximity, and I highly doubt other players are going to be willing to help someone move their tank into the woods with their tank, making them very slow and vulnerable, and I'd suspect they'd just let you die or get you to go and get another tank.

Its up to me, if I'm going to risk or not. On some maps (in Darkest Hour) its very annoying not to be able to repair a tracks. You may have only 1 tank, and you may be stuck far away from any enemies.

That's nothing new and track damage being common was indeed common in the mod and back then if I was in a T-34 or IS2 and my tracks were toast, I could usually still hang out in that same tank through the entire round killing the enemy easily, while I'm stuck on an angle, deflecting their shots..... happened a lot on Karlovka.... if you're that far away from any enemies, then how did they get a hit on you? And if you're stuck that far away from enemies, most people would get out on foot and continue the game.... perhaps hop into a passing by tank. If you decide you want to do this, all the power to you, but out of all the features, tweaks, improvements and modifications being talked about, I'd suspect this being the lowest priority.

Whats what people did in real life, man. But currently, what you do, if your tank's track are damaged? Many people just do suicide to quickly respawn near fresh tank.

I just get out on foot and try and contribute as much until I die and respawn back to the tanks. Even with just a mere pistol I can usually take out two or three enemies, which of course I can then pick up their weapons and do even more damage.

In real life and right in the middle of the battle, if your tank was damaged and you think you're at serious risk of being killed because of the damage to your tank, you ditched it. Otherwise you'd keep on fighting, but nobody just suddenly hopped out and started doing the repair work right in the middle of a battle unless they're fools. Repairs normally would be done after the battle.

Because I want to make COMBAT non-arcade. Non-arcade tank battles. Realistic damage to tanks. Realistic strategies. More choices in combat. If I need to add arcade NON COMBAT feature to make COMBAT better, I would go for it. Actually feature (track repair) itself is not arcade (if implemented well).
Its time may be unrealistic for it.

So now you're subjectively determining for everybody else what arcade-like game play is less arcadey then another?

Track repair isn't arcadey... I never said that, it's your idea of making track repair (realistic) faster in the game (not realistic) because you don't like how tank tracks are damaged (realistic) but can't be repaired (not realistic) ~ All for a feature that seems most so far who have commented on, don't see a practical use for, let alone interest.

I would like to have it configurable by server admin.

But then nobody knows how long it's going to take until they actually start doing it.... or if it's even available on that server. This falls along the same lines of issues I have with different difficulties being allowed in online gameplay..... too many options being able to be adjusted server-side that can drastically alter the overall gameplay isn't going to make anything better. Sure more options are nice in general, but when I buy one game, I expect to learn how to play that one game with it's one game style in a decent fashion.

I have no interest in trying to learn how to play One Game 4 or 5 different ways and not being able to know exactly all what is allowed, not allowed, what features are on or not, until you're on the server.

Too many useless features will only confuse the overall feel of the actual game and people will be far less patient in trying to understand and enjoy the game when everytime they venture online, everything keeps changing parameters..... where one thing would work here, it doesn't work elsewhere, and where someone was never on the map, is now suddenly on the map.

I don't mind being able to adjust the time limits per round, player counts, class availabilities, maybe even cap zones being moved on maps, etc...... but having core parts of the game like how tanks react, crosshairs or iron sights, being able to turn on or off free aim iron sights, or have health bars and then none..... all it does in my view is make the game look messy, confused and appear that the developers couldn't make up their minds so they tossed a bunch of crap at the community and hoped for the best.

^ This type of approach is find for a Mod or some Beta to figure out what's good for a final product, but when you're going for a full retail product you want to sell.... some gameplay consistency would be nice.

Totally unrealistic is then I hit tank tracks from 5 meters away with HE and do no damage.
Totally unrealistic is leaving your tank, when tracks are damaged.

And what else is totally unrealistic is a T-34 shell taking out a tiger with one shot in it's frontal armour, but it happens in the game anyways.

What else is totally unrealistic is how the turret is so much of a pain in the arse to aim while on the move and how the tanks have no absorption of bumps and hills so you have an even harder time aiming.

Like I said, there are many more important issues with the tanks that should be addressed before we focus on being able to Tim Taylor the tracks.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

There is an idea there: I think we may have to instigate compulsory counselling for anyone who attempts to commit suicide...

But if you fall and kill yourself by accident, it counts it as a suicide..... I suspect it'd have to relate to entering the code "Suicide" rather then just blank deaths in game?

 

[Kashash]

yeah and the thing is also that new players don't know that you can just kill yourself by typing suicide, which makes unfair beacuse it's gives advantage to more experienced player that can just suicide and take a better class quick or take a tank straight instead of walking back or trying to catch with another tank which I also do. Also when team just captured another objective which moves their spawn even farther with new and better tanks, some players like to suicide even though their PzIV is fine just to take a Tiger from new spawn and be even closer to the objective. That's why on most maps tank crews don't have a granade to not kill themselves all the time, unfortunately there's other way...