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The New Engine For The Possible KF2

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nezul

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 25, 2009
126
5
#1
Killing floor is a great game and all that, truly something and defiantly worth the $20. however think of what killing floor might have been if not made with a 6 year old engine? :rolleyes:

I was thinking about this recently and it occurred to me, why didnt TWI use the UT3 engine or even the source engine for killing floor originally? both seem like they could of done the job.

maybe in the far future when TWI runs out of ideas of kf and thinks about kf2

would engine do you think would suit its atmosphere?

now I was thinking, they would prolly go with the UT3 engine or maybe by that time the UT4 engine but perhaps Im thinking to small....how utterly mind blowing would killing floor be set in the Cry2 or 3 Engine :eek:

your opinions
 
#2
nezul said:
Killing floor is a great game and all that, truly something and defiantly worth the $20. however think of what killing floor might have been if not made with a 6 year old engine? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

the same game but with better graphics???

nezul said:
I was thinking about this recently and it occurred to me, why didnt TWI use the UT3 engine or even the source engine for killing floor originally? both seem like they could of done the job.
Click to expand...

because their UE3 license is being used for the new RO. also, source engine is equally as old as the engine KF is on. not only that, but source engine looks fake and plastic.

nezul said:
maybe in the far future when TWI runs out of ideas of kf and thinks about kf2
Click to expand...

theres only so much you can do with this game. there probably will be a kf2 as this game has become a good cash cow for TWI, but honestly i really dont see much else being added other than new guns, and new specimen. campaign already exists, thats nothing new.

nezul said:
would engine do you think would suit its atmosphere?
Click to expand...

UE 2. the more gritty the better in the case of KF.

nezul said:
now I was thinking, they would prolly go with the UT3 engine or maybe by that time the UT4 engine but perhaps Im thinking to small....how utterly mind blowing would killing floor be set in the Cry2 or 3 Engine :eek:
Click to expand...

no matter how great you dress this game up, its always going to be a straight forward game about killing, easy to get into, easy to understand, straight forward and to the point.
 
Upvote 0
#4
dextronaut said:
the same game but with better graphics???


because their UE3 license is being used for the new RO. also, source engine is equally as old as the engine KF is on. not only that, but source engine looks fake and plastic.
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fair enough

dextronaut said:
theres only so much you can do with this game. there probably will be a kf2 as this game has become a good cash cow for TWI, but honestly i really dont see much else being added other than new guns, and new specimen. campaign already exists, thats nothing new.


UE 2. the more gritty the better in the case of KF.

no matter how great you dress this game up, its always going to be a straight forward game about killing, easy to get into, easy to understand, straight forward and to the point.
Click to expand...

I was kinda referring to what the enemies can do and how they behave. sure kf would be a little better dressed up and smoothed out a little (aka the animations) but kf would be scarier if the AI did always take a direct route and tried to sneak around your back, maybe try and target the weakest person or didnt bash down doors when they dont need to (aka near the U room on biotic lab) or so how cool would it be if you got a 20% chance to fight for your life when you die, say a crawler attacks you, say the attack would of killed you but instead it jumps on you, you fall to the ground and you have to fight it off or until a team mate kills it for you.

these sorta of things would make the game more hectic and scary, kinda what the game was originally trying to do.

also you cant srsly say that the BGM for killing floor is really that good? its not scary, its not that action packed, you dont feel like a badass when killing zeds. it really does nothing for the game.

sure some of these things could be implemented without a new engine but a new engine with better graphics and game mechanics plus some small improvements could really make a difference.

take this example

Alien vs Predator 1 and 2 (for pc) were really great games, they gave you fear, they were hectic and great fun. they were by no means the most pretty or most graphic game but it was fun, simply and pretty balanced. this is similar to what killing floor is already. now we have AvP3 coming up, the graphics looks great, the game mechanics are a little different and it overall looks like a badass game. the difference of these 2 games could be the possible difference of KF one and two.

I think its the engine that prevents killing floor from having certain gameplay mechanics that could make it o so much better.
 
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#5
nezul said:
but kf would be scarier if the AI did always take a direct route and tried to sneak around your back, maybe try and target the weakest person or didnt bash down doors when they dont need to (aka near the U room on biotic lab) or so how cool would it be if you got a 20% chance to fight for your life when you die
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its the AI. it finds the quickest path to the players and takes that path. its not easy to program it to do complex stuff like, "ok, they are there, and theres a good spot over there that i can shoot them from without them knowing, ok, ill go there, and while im at it, ill have these guys flank them as a distraction"

you really need to do some research on programming, AI, etc so yuo can see just how hard it is to make good AI. new engine does not equal better AI.

nezul said:
say a crawler attacks you, say the attack would of killed you but instead it jumps on you, you fall to the ground and you have to fight it off or until a team mate kills it for you.
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nah man, if you want that, play L4D. i play KF because of the freedom, i dont have to save everyone, i can if i want to, but i always have the choice.
 
Upvote 0
#6
I am aware that it is difficult to program AI, especially for shooters. I'm simply stating that the AI in KF could be better and if improved could make the game better. in AvP your enemies never always took the direct route, they would sneak behind you and in front of you to attack, in and HL2 game enemies would take cover and try and flank you (Im not referring so much the take cover part), in bioshock the enemies would again try and flank you, in left 4 dead enemies would run in a curve around you to avoid gunfire.

I get that AI is hard to program however Im simply stating the fact that asking for smarter AI, AI that exists in almost any recent shooting game you care to mention is not a huge ask for a sequel thats probably years away.

and I know that a better engine does not mean better AI but a better engine allows for more programmable, more intelligent and complex AI

Im gonna try break the ranting,lets drop the arguments and focus more on the core topic

so back to the question of this topic

what engine do you think will be best for the next KF game? is so what game mechanics does that engine allow that would be similar or beneficial to the next game.

(fair enough on the go play L4D comment)
 
Upvote 0
#7
nezul said:
I am aware that it is difficult to program AI, especially for shooters. I'm simply stating that the AI in KF could be better and if improved could make the game better. in AvP your enemies never always took the direct route, they would sneak behind you and in front of you to attack, in and HL2 game enemies would take cover and try and flank you (Im not referring so much the take cover part), in bioshock the enemies would again try and flank you, in left 4 dead enemies would run in a curve around you to avoid gunfire.

I get that AI is hard to program however Im simply stating the fact that asking for smarter AI, AI that exists in almost any recent shooting game you care to mention is not a huge ask for a sequel thats probably years away.
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well im going to tell you a fact right now: this is a zombie game. they are not going to being doing intelligent tactical manueveurs. they come at you, and you shoot them. end of story. thats how KF works. its straight to the point. its like solitaire or checkers but for us maniacs.
 
Upvote 0
#8
:rolleyes:.........*sigh

Im just ganna let the argument drop, cbf arguing anymore

lets stick engines, ill start off


I think the Cry2-3Engine would be a pretty good engine, its got good graphics, it can support massive worlds and probably therefore large amounts of zeds, it can support smart AI (let it drop...) nice explosions, good physics, destructible buildings (how fun would it be to explode a building down into a flesh pound), average-high CPU usuage, (might loose some players there) and sure we might loose the grain affect but it might not be so bad.

ok, without getting into an argument, what do you think the UE2 or whatever engine can make the game better/improved for the sequel.
 
Upvote 0
#9
graphics wise, for a zombie game thats meant to be a coop horror survival, id say the "worse" it looks, the better. heres bioticslab from 1.0,

biotics01.png


Quote: THATS WHAT A ZOMBIE GAME SHOULD LOOK LIKE!
 
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Upvote 0
#10
To be fair we all know there are limitations to UR2. A newer engine as well as supporting better graphics would give more possibilities to program into the game. There have been a number of suggestions that have been overlooked because it isn't possible for the current engine. I think thats what nezul is driving at ;)

If I'm honest with the exception of maybe in game customisable charatcers, I can't think of anything I'd want to see in a newer engine game than the current one. The grit factor is brilliant, and I think a newer engine would merely give more polish tro the game, all the little stuff that people moan about, like Ak-47s with the safety on and there being no model difference for aiming down sight or not ;)

Its nice to imagine what a fully completed campaign mode would have been like though :)
 
Upvote 0
#12
nezul said:
thank you undedd jester for understanding my point

i get what you mean...."worse" does look better but i think engines that look "bad" on purpose look better than engines that just look bad.
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you just made a good point, i can accept that.

PS: better explosions is always welcome, and the thing you mentioned about houses in Crysis collapsing, that is awesome. i was playing one time and they threw a nade so i took cover in the little shack, the house collapsed and im standing there like holy crap. in a zombie environment that would be tight.
 
Upvote 0
#13
dextronaut said:
because their UE3 license is being used for the new RO. also, source engine is equally as old as the engine KF is on. not only that, but source engine looks fake and plastic.
.
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absolutely wrong.

2.5 is ancient compared to source engine
last time source engine was updated was l4d2 ( November 16, 2009 )
37380_9.jpg

suburb_04.jpg



there's nothing fake or plastic about source engine
it depends on how its used

dextronaut said:
the same game but with better graphics???
Click to expand...
assuming that the developers wouldn't change anything or take advantage of a modernized engine is extremely naive
 
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Upvote 0
#14
now that i think about it though, killing floor would look horrible (in a bad way) in the source engine. source is way to "clean" to be anything close to the UT2 engine. I see more gore, blood and fear in any KF map then I do when playing any of the HL2 zombie areas

I think I understand what you mean now dextronaut.....
 
Upvote 0
#17
defragen1 said:
absolutely wrong.

2.5 is ancient compared to source engine
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Both Source and UE have roots that reach back to the mid-late 90s.

TWI would have to buy a license to develop on a new engine. They already have one for UE3, though.

I love a lot of Valve's games and Source is a good engine, but I much prefer UE3 for its flexibility and overall performance. If you need an example of what I mean, time the loading between engines when joining a multiplayer server. UE3 (UT3) rarely takes more than a few seconds, while I often have to wait minutes for a game to start up in Source (TF2). Redirected content also seems to download and initiate faster as well.

That said, both Source and UE are a patchwork of updates and upgrades. I just think Source is starting to show its age, while UE is still looking new. It's just unfortunate that Epic is leaning mostly toward console development with the next incarnation of Unreal Engine.
 
Upvote 0
#18
i see....

thanks for your input that was very helpful and very true.

so TWI best option atm is the UT3 engine which looks good and since they already have the license that looks even better. if they did go the way of the UT3 engine then the possible killing floor 2 would also be console compatible.

thanks, that was very usefull.


i still think KF/KF2 would look amazing on the cry2-3engine (2 costs less power but 3 has more..."stuff", also bear the fact that, anything in fact would look good on the cryengine)
think about fighting as a team through the level of crysis with zeds swarming you every 2 mins or so, how epic would it be to hide in a building and blow down entrance while you recover, when all your team is ready you then smash and entrance open and cut your way through.

moments like that would be mind blowing, although alas...never going to happen....

what other engines do you think would improve killing floor?
 
Upvote 0
#20
nezul said:
now that i think about it though, killing floor would look horrible (in a bad way) in the source engine. source is way to "clean" to be anything close to the UT2 engine. I see more gore, blood and fear in any KF map then I do when playing any of the HL2 zombie areas

I think I understand what you mean now dextronaut.....
Click to expand...
"source is way to clean to be anything close to UT2 engine" ?? that statement absolutely made no sense
if you knew anything modding you would know how easy it would be to implement a new blood effect into any sourcemod
A engine is a engine and its not clean nor dirty
I could easily create the KF "look" in a sourcemod by using some color changing fog / gritty textures / very dim lighting / gibs / dead people props / huge sprites with slow fades / red orchestra smoke effects / huge blood decals and done ( and dont forget sloppy mapping [url]http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3866/sloppy.jpg[/URL] )



Reise said:
Both Source and UE have roots that reach back to the mid-late 90s.

TWI would have to buy a license to develop on a new engine. They already have one for UE3, though.

I love a lot of Valve's games and Source is a good engine, but I much prefer UE3 for its flexibility and overall performance. If you need an example of what I mean, time the loading between engines when joining a multiplayer server. UE3 (UT3) rarely takes more than a few seconds, while I often have to wait minutes for a game to start up in Source (TF2). Redirected content also seems to download and initiate faster as well.

That said, both Source and UE are a patchwork of updates and upgrades. I just think Source is starting to show its age, while UE is still looking new. It's just unfortunate that Epic is leaning mostly toward console development with the next incarnation of Unreal Engine.
Click to expand...

I know the history engine history quite well but I think its pretty unfair to compare unreal3 to source. I will agree that unreal3 is the highest performing dx10 supporting engine out there but UE2.5 engine is not better than source
When hl3 comes out I'm pretty sure UE3 will VERY comparable

PS im not in anyway saying/promoting/hinting that tripwire should use source engine
Its just kinda annoying that some ppl will go around making vague statements
 
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