Head Bob While Running

[Zetsumei]

Spotting is harder when you are moving quickly because you need to take the entire environment into account much quicker which as the placement of the pixels is rapidly moving.

But your brain is able while moving to atleast get a clear image that doesnt move around shakey all the way. I don't think the ability to see when running should be made a lot harder than it already is.

 

[LJFHutch]

Spotting is harder when you are moving quickly because you need to take the entire environment into account much quicker which as the placement of the pixels is rapidly moving.

But your brain is able while moving to atleast get a clear image that doesnt move around shakey all the way. I don't think the ability to see when running should be made a lot harder than it already is.

I wasn't referring to running, only sprinting.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

It does annoy me when head bob is introduced in situations in which it is not realistic. Take ArmA2, the head bob is very good, but they seem to have gone for the shaky-cam approach instead of the human approach, meaning that your view shakes around when walking and situations where a human body would easily compensate

Head bob should only happen when your character is really exerting themselves or is being severely affected by the environment:

* Jumping.
* Falling.
* Dying
* Being hit by a HE round.
* Sprinting (provided the sprint is something more than "fast jog" like most games)
* Dropping to your stomach.
* Climbing.

Etc......

See those make sense.... and like I said if you're running really hard or almost spent with energy from running, then this effect should also apply.... but regular walking, jogging and at least the first half of running shouldn't have any bob.

I mean being able to focus on things in a distance at the start of a run isn't just realisitic, but in the game you're weapon can't be used while running, so it doesn't matter if you can focus or not.... but if I have to run from the barn to the house with a tank shooting all over the place, I'd like to see that I'm aiming decently at the doorway.

Already I end up hitting the corner of the doorway and getting stuck where I'm then gunned down quickly more often then I'd like..... I don't like the idea of a constant head bobbing while I'm trying to get into a specific spot without getting shot to hell.

When you're wounded or really tired, sure.... toss it in. When you jump, fall or jump to prone, nearby explosions.... go ahead.

But don't toss it in during times when you really need to be focusing on what's going on and you're fit as a fiddle or only ran for a couple of seconds.

The above at least meets both sides of this argument halfway on having it in or not.

 

[213]

your vision will not bob even though your body is physically bobbing.

please do not include "shaky cam" vision style. our vision is not camera-like. we have sensory gyros that allows us to have stable vision like a steadycam.

 

[Zetsumei]

your vision will not bob even though your body is physically bobbing.

please do not include "shaky cam" vision style. our vision is not camera-like. we have sensory gyros that allows us to have stable vision like a steadycam.

exactly but that is primarily in keeping your sight aimed at the same place. Actual movement of the camera in space is realistic aslong as the focus point remains thesame. If the focus point remains the same then you get exactly the same in reality, as if you would have a system stabilization controller.

 

[LJFHutch]

exactly but that is primarily in keeping your sight aimed at the same place. Actual movement of the camera in space is realistic aslong as the focus point remains thesame. If the focus point remains the same then you get exactly the same in reality, as if you would have a system stabilization controller.

However, it can only stabilize to a certain extent, when sprinting this is not so effective, hence the "head bob".

The faster you run and the more you exert yourself the less able you are to effectively focus, try it. Last time I clocked myself (I was 17 then) I managed to get 23km/h, at that speed, you just aren't able to see with perfect clarity since your entire body is being pushed to it's limits in order to attain and maintain that speed, you experience what is commonly referred to on teh internetz as "shaky cam", though I agree, it's not much like shaking handheld camera like an amatuer who's just dropped it down a set of stairs

Edit: Yeah, just went out for a quick sprint and you sure do get head bob, none of this rail shooter stuff

 

[Flogger23m]

To shake the camera as much as in ArmA2 is pretty unrealistic as i pointed out on their forums as well.

What he said.

When you turn it down to the lowest setting, it actually does look pretty realistic. But at the default setting, it shakes far too much.


Same with motion blur. Games over do that far too much. When I move my head a tiny bit, my vision doesn't turn into a giant blur (think Crysis with motion blur at the max settings).

 

[Reise]

I think the idea behind the head bobbing is that the game is doing for you what your body would be doing in reality.

Your eyes still focus on one point on the screen, the screen just happens to be bobbing like your head would be. It's basically the same effect. I thought the way it was done in Ostfront was very nice and the preview videos for HOS seem to have kept that level of screen movement.

please do not include "shaky cam" vision style. our vision is not camera-like. we have sensory gyros that allows us to have stable vision like a steadycam.

With the bobbing camera, our "sensory gyros" can kick in, even in the comfort of our office chairs.

 

[Zetsumei]

With the bobbing camera, our "sensory gyros" can kick in, even in the comfort of our office chairs.

Our sensory gyros can indeed kick in from the confort of an office chair but if our gyroscopic sensor doesn't feel anything (like if we do not move) it will not feel any need correct anything.

Aka the image point you're looking at on the screen, if that moves around it can be hard to keep track off. While you can move your body pretty wild and still be able to read text.

Thats why especially angular movement of the camera can be really hard to keep track off and lead to motionsickness as well.

 

[LJFHutch]

Our sensory gyros can indeed kick in from the confort of an office chair but if our gyroscopic sensor doesn't feel anything (like if we do not move) it will not feel any need correct anything.

Aka the image point you're looking at on the screen, if that moves around it can be hard to keep track off. While you can move your body pretty wild and still be able to read text.

Thats why especially angular movement of the camera can be really hard to keep track off and lead to motionsickness as well.

Indeed, run around with head bob on full in ArmA2 and you'll want to hurl after a while, that or just get sick of not being able to see anything at all. A little is nice though, I think about 20-30% is perfect for sprinting ... walking and jogging ... not so much .

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I think the idea behind the head bobbing is that the game is doing for you what your body would be doing in reality.

Your eyes still focus on one point on the screen, the screen just happens to be bobbing like your head would be. It's basically the same effect. I thought the way it was done in Ostfront was very nice and the preview videos for HOS seem to have kept that level of screen movement.

With the bobbing camera, our "sensory gyros" can kick in, even in the comfort of our office chairs.

The problem is that your physical eyes notice this head bob on a computer screen far more then you would in real life, mainly because the screen isn't attached to your brain and it's putting in an automated/simulated body motion you're not connected to.... thus harder to focus on then what would exist in real life.

Since someone's own/personal head bobbing is subjective based on neck muscles, height, posture, eye strength, how they run, etc.... one pre-set style of head bob may work for a few people, while others would think it's too much or too little. This is why I believe it should just remain out of the game, or leave it as it currently is.

Our sensory gyros can indeed kick in from the confort of an office chair but if our gyroscopic sensor doesn't feel anything (like if we do not move) it will not feel any need correct anything.

Aka the image point you're looking at on the screen, if that moves around it can be hard to keep track off. While you can move your body pretty wild and still be able to read text.

Thats why especially angular movement of the camera can be really hard to keep track off and lead to motionsickness as well.

Ah, that's what I was touching on in what I mentioned above.... motion sickness.

I have found over the years, through my own personal experience growing up and what my wife has gone through up until just a couple of years ago, that motion sickness/car sickness is based on eyes that have weak muscles that have a problem focusing on moving objects.

I grew up having a lazy eye I am told (everything is 20/20 with no glasses now) and my wife had an issue with her left eye straining more to focus then her right. Because of this, long drives, staring at a computer screen for long periods of time or a movie with quick flashes or blurry motions would make her sick or give her headaches..... once she got glasses for this, all her motion sickness issues went away.

Now how this relates to the topic is that we're not the only ones who had issues with our vision and many more around the world still do..... and thowing on more motion blurs, head bobs and other things to visually alter what you see in the game for fancy effects will only cause more headaches.... litterally.

I tried playing Resident Evil 5 on the PC a couple of days ago and I had to take the blur off because it was so intense and distracting I couldn't play the game and started getting headaches after about 10 minutes.

Artificial Head bobbing is simply not worth it and it adds more strain on the viewer's eyes then needed when it comes to continually trying to focus when what you're trying to focus on tries to artificially unfocus on you..... not healthy for your eyes in the long term.

 

[Zetsumei]

Well moving the the gun around and moving the camera up/down/left/right are things that are safe to do for any normal person (anyone can still focus perfectly with that going on).

Changing the angle of the camera makes it hard to focus so that could be debatable, but in some cases like sprinting for your life it could be reasonable.

Basically what i want is the feeling of being a person rather than a floating camera so you get more immersed and headbob and moving guns can help with that. But it shouldn't disrubt your ability to see things correctly.

Is it a balance sure, and the goal should be to find the setting that works the best for the majority of the people.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Well moving the the gun around and moving the camera up/down/left/right are things that are safe to do for any normal person (anyone can still focus perfectly with that going on).

Changing the angle of the camera makes it hard to focus so that could be debatable, but in some cases like sprinting for your life it could be reasonable.

Well for mad dashes, impacts, falling, explosions, I all agree with these things, but my comments were generally speaking towards visual effects that are geared to simulation what you see or don't. In other words, I don't want to see it in normal jogging, crouch-moving or going prone.

If it's in the game constantly or most of the time in just about everything you do, many people are going to have problems with their vision after a while if they can't disable these features.... but for odd times like falling, explosions, mad running, etc. it'd make sense.

Basically what i want is the feeling of being a person rather than a floating camera so you get more immersed and headbob and moving guns can help with that. But it shouldn't disrubt your ability to see things correctly.

Is it a balance sure, and the goal should be to find the setting that works the best for the majority of the people.

How about rather then a head bob, your helmet bobs in and out of view at the top of the screen? Then what you're focusing on can be focused on, while you still have the simulation of movement (along with the weapons animating in hand)?

 

[Zetsumei]

How about rather then a head bob, your helmet bobs in and out of view at the top of the screen? Then what you're focusing on can be focused on, while you still have the simulation of movement (along with the weapons animating in hand)?

Showing a helmet in the vision will probably look ugly as hell (or at the least weird) so i probably wouldnt think its worth trying around with that. But seriously there is a difference in headbob between angular movement and a translating movement.

The movement of point of aim when moving your head maybe 10cm is pretty much negleglible. And it should show things in pretty much in the same way your head stabilizes.

As your head stabilizes itself by keeping your eyes on the focus point yet the head moves up and down, so if your ingame image or virtual eyes stay pointing at the same thing while moving up and down you get the exact same experience as you would get when moving yourself.

Thats why i would like you to try out to just look at something in the distance of the game and quickly hit crouch and uncrouch a few times. You will see that you wont have any issue focussing on a point in the distance and the movement from crouch to uncrouch is a lot bigger than the movement you would get from headbob.