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Balance and other things, a note from Yoshi.

Oh how's it work in the game I play? Well you see it's the 2nd highest damage single target hitting weapon in the game that also has the 2nd highest fire rate out of non melee/automatic weapons, not to mention a virtually limitless ammo supply. I mean you have to literally try to run out of ammo for it to happen. You can make an entire crowd disappear in mere seconds if you're quick with aim, you can make the strongest zeds die before they can even attack.

In the hands of a level 6 sharpshooter that can aim, deals 256-294 damage per shot at a fire rate of .175 seconds. That's 1463-1680 dps. A fleshpound on suicidal solo has 2625 health. He kills it in less than 2 seconds. 9-11 shots. He still has 9-11 more shots in his clip, so he can kill 2 fleshpounds before even having to reload and in under 5 seconds! Try doing that with any other class' final tier weapon! You'll find yourself wasting multiple clips and taking a much longer time to do it.

The iron sights are dead on, just because you can't use them, doesn't mean they don't work or suck. It means you are blind because you can't use it for some strange odd reason even though it's exactly like using the LAR's sights but you have no issue with that.

The laser sights do have some issues, but for the most part, do make life easy. It's only on 2 zed types that it doesn't work properly on(clots and bloats) and that's just a bug.

Your argument it lacks the "power" of the xbow, but dramatically outperforms it in the dps department. Sure it doesn't oneshot that fleshpound, but it sure as hell will drop him faster than it takes you to reload if you missed with the xbow.

There's a reason it can't be used with the xbow. That much power would've made the balance that much worse. Heck your only argument here is that you just want the ability to use the xbow for the FPs even though the m-14 is just as effective at bringing them down if not better.

The xbow is NOT a better team support weapon. Yay I heardshot that raging fp with my xbow, but oh noes my teammate still has another one chasing him and is backing into a scrake! I can only choose one by the time i reload! Teammate! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! What then? The M-14 could've handled it all, it can even handle the large groups of trash that come out with ease, heck bodyshots take care of them.

Please, if you can't see how overpowered it is, you're in denial.
 
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Maybe some of you are 'omgwtf crazy good' at Killing Floor for one reason or another, but not all of us find it 'too easy' and enjoy what's there, instead of always whining for changes.

What I noticed is that a lot of people here who constantly cry about how the game is too eay, particularly the most vocal of the pack, blow their skills in game out of proportion on this forum. Most claim suicidal is too easy and don't have half, or sometimes even one of the suicidal achievements.

I mean I've played a lot on suicidal and have beaten every stock map on it and I still find suicidal to be a challenge on most maps. A team full of M14 users will NOT survive a round with 3-4+ FPS. In a perfect world, you would have a sharpshooter who would take care of them using a xbow, but really sh** happens- they miss twice, more than 2 fps show up at a time, team enrages it, all of which can lead to a wipe. And if all 10 waves work out well, there is still Pat to take care of. Sure a lot of you say pipebombs make short work of him, and they do, but that comes with a lot of risk.

The only conditions where I think suicidal would be easy on any map would be solo play, 3-4 player play or playing with only experienced friends. 6 man suicidal pubs are a different story.

My point is, I agree some weapons, particularly the M14 (needs ammo reduction big time) are unbalanced but the game is by no means easy on pub suicidal. People who claim otherwise are just trying to boost their e-peen so don't let that get you down.
 
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Please, if you can't see how overpowered it is, you're in denial.

I just really don't think it's all that and a bag of chips.

I would rather have a Commando6+SCAR than a SS6+M14. SCAR has bags of ammo too, oneshots the trash and doesn't have a ****ty scope. If I'm standing shoulder to shoulder with a SS I'll be the one clearing the crowds because I'm more effective and he's the one dropping the big guys.

The sight on the m14 sucks compared to the LAR or SCAR. The m14 is a great weapon...it's Tier 4 after all, but it's not ruining the game.
 
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I just really don't think it's all that and a bag of chips.
opinion...
I would rather have a Commando6+SCAR than a SS6+M14.
...is opinion...
doesn't have a ****ty scope.
is opinion
The sight on the m14 sucks compared to the LAR or SCAR. The m14 is a great weapon...it's Tier 4 after all, but it's not ruining the game.
is opinion.


Please come back with facts or stfu.
 
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opinion...

...is opinion...

is opinion

is opinion.


Please come back with facts or stfu.

Who made you the grand pooh-bah Nazi of the forums that has declared that nobody's opinion but your own matters?

And, oh grand pooh-bah, WTF are you going to do about it if I don't come back with facts? You gonna ban me? Take back my christmas toys? Cry? What?

Also please note, your grand pooh-bahness, that we are debating something that is very subjective so opinions are in many ways more important than fact.

If your facts were so solid you wouldn't have to resort to being such a tool would you? ...just my opinion :)
 
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Who made you the grand pooh-bah Nazi of the forums that has declared that nobody's opinion but your own matters?

And, oh grand pooh-bah, WTF are you going to do about it if I don't come back with facts? You gonna ban me? Take back my christmas toys? Cry? What?

Also please note, your grand pooh-bahness, that we are debating something that is very subjective so opinions are in many ways more important than fact.

If your facts were so solid you wouldn't have to resort to being such a tool would you? ...just my opinion :)
You know when you try to get change to happen you don't go to your boss and say "OMG THIS IS SO COOL! WE SHOULD CHANGE IT! I THINK ITS AWESOME!!!" you go to your boss with charts, graphs, numbers, pictures, comparisons, etc....I've done that, and you shot not one thing down. In fact you listed a bunch of opinions, which when it comes to concerns of balance, opinions have no place.

Who made you the grand pooh-bah Nazi of the forums that has declared that nobody's opinion but your own matters?
This isn't a matter of opinions. It's a matter of facts. If you can supply no facts as to why the game is balanced when so many state that it is unbalanced and can even back their statements up with proof, then you should keep your mouth shut to keep yourself from looking the fool. "It is better to let them think you a fool, than to open your mouth and cast away any doubt."

And, oh grand pooh-bah, WTF are you going to do about it if I don't come back with facts? You gonna ban me? Take back my christmas toys? Cry? What?
You just prove me right and you lose your credibility in the argument, defaulting victory to me.

Also please note, your grand pooh-bahness, that we are debating something that is very subjective so opinions are in many ways more important than fact.
Subjective, as in it will affect many attributes of the game. These must be weighed through logical truths and facts, along with numbers to help prove how things will go. Opinions have no place here.

If your facts were so solid you wouldn't have to resort to being such a tool would you? ...just my opinion :)
Keep your opinions and flames out of a discussion about in game mechanics, thanks.
 
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Hey now. KF is srs business. That's the only way to explain people taking a non-competitive game's balance this seriously, right?

Seems like it.

People need to chill out.

mr-freeze.gif
 
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We can bicker about the m14 all day long but I guess what we all can agree on would be that the ammo prices are totally out of balance and I'm not just talking about the crossbow here.
Just compare the revolver- to the single action grenade launcher or the AA12 to the hunting shotgun. Also grenades.
The price-gain ratio is complete whack.

The extremely low ammo cost (if you re-buy the crossbow, which is an issue in itself) is part of the reason why the sharpshooter is regarded as 'overpowered' by so many people.
300 shots of which 4 can kill a FP for ~120 pounds is all I have to say.

If everything SS was priced according its efficiency and if there was no way to circumvent buying ammo by re-buying weapons or by ammo crates replenishing 1/5 of your ammo, it would probably not be regarded as overpowered at all.
Even if you can carry up to 300 shots for the m14 and rapid fire 20 shots, that wouldn't be worth squat if you can't afford to completely refill the ammo each round because every shot is 3 worth pounds.
 
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On Suicidal, my group typically only uses 3 perks: Sharpshooter, Commando, and Medic. The others are regarded as just not viable for a variety of reasons, mostly ammo usage:

-Support runs out of ammo way too fast and is too expensive to justify
-Berserker relies on being up close and simply can't take the hits that come with it and hope to survive on Suicidal
-Demoman has poor damage against Suicidal specs and the explosion shakes/smoke screw up everyone else's aim. Plus low ammo capacity...
-Firebug has pathetic damage, little space for a backup weapon, and runs out of ammo in no time.

Commando and Sharpshooter are the only worthwhile ones because they can take down multiple targets quickly and still have ammo to go on. We ALWAYS have 1 Sharpshooter with the X-Bow to take out FPs/Scrakes, and our medics almost always carry an X-Bow for anti-scrakage. Even without the M-14, even if using the X-Bow, Sharpshooter has close to 300 9mm shots (Each of which can kill a Gorefast or anything less in 1-headshot)...plus at least 90 handcannon shots.

The rest of the team is always M-14 Equipped Sharpshooters or SCAR/AK Commandos, which are used almost interchangably. However, the M-14 Sharpie is preferred because it's basically a semi-auto SCAR with a crapton of Headshot damage, allowing you to deal with Scrakes where the SCAR can't. On areas where we hold for a long time, almost every Sharpshooter gets an M-14 and leaves a Crossbow lying around for Scrakes/FPs.

Basically, right now, the only really viable perks for Suicidal are Sharpshooter and Commando. Medic is necessary for healing as well. The other classes just aren't viable. I don't think it's so much of a problem with Commando and Sharpshooter as it is an issue with the other classes...
 
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Support and Demo (albeit annoying sometimes) are also very viable classes on suicidal actually. Sharpshooters and Commandos really are budget classes so after round 2 or so, the money really starts to accumulate. They usually end up with several thousand pounds by the end of the game. They just have to give some of that to support and demo. And support usually runs out of money only if using the hunting shotgun instead of the AA12, so if you're using the AA12 which you should be around wave 5, you have nothing to worry about.

Both these classes are for when things get messy and you need to clear a lot of zeds at once, which comes in handy.

Firebug is also useable but not really past wave 5. Beserker used to be invaluable before the level up update when teams would have to throw ammo to bring down fps, but now with the more powerful weapons, fixed hitboxes, removal of the fp decap trick and nerfed chainsaw, beserker is absolutely useless on suicidal.
 
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