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Firebug is in trouble

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SIL

Active member
Nov 5, 2009
29
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#1
I'm your typical KF player, and a long time multiple forum lurker.

Lately, I've not been able to really enjoy playing Firebug. I used to love the perk and took it up after I had neglected it for a long time. I found myself to enjoy the challenge of it. My typical setup is the Flame Thrower and Dual Handcannons with 9mm for smaller things. I really was happy that Tripwire fixed the infinite burn problem as I felt it ruined the challenge of the larger specimens. I always struggle with Flesh Pounds and sometimes with Scrakes if nobody is around to back me up.

All this is back story, however. Lately, with the introduction of demo...I've felt my class is worthless when one is present.

First off, lets look at the flaws before I get into gameplay examples. Firebug is a class that is dependent on time to get the job done. Often times if you light a specimen on fire, they require "burn down" time. Some won't even die from it. Anything bloat and above lower firebugs will have issues with. Gorefasts require kiting to let them burn down, and that's not a good thing when they're charging. Often times you'll fire a few more blasts to make sure nobody gets hurt.

The problem here is that most people are impatient and will even fire on a crawler that is cooking down. Clots too. I light something up, they blast it and it's the same as if I wasn't present. I was fine with that...then demo came.

Demo is basically the complete destruction of Firebug. Example:

Hey, a group of clots with a few gorefast behind them! I can light them all on fi--KABLAM KABLAM KABLAM KABLAM KABLAM! .... *The smoke clears and nothing but body rubble remains* oh hello mister demo, ruining my chance at participating yet again.

Distance is another issue. While I have solid range now, I still have to close in longer range situations. The demo doesn't. Example:

Hey, a group of specimens all cluttered up down that tunnel in West London(non-bus one) *starts running down the tunnel to ignite them* All right you suckers, time to FR--KABLAM KABLAM KABLAM KABLAM! *spins around* oh, the demo at the buses near the police station just opened up...greaaaaat.

Even more examples:

*foom foom* haha! They're all burning, Barbeque tonigh--KABLAM KABLAM KABLAM!

Hey guys, there's a fleshpound coming, let me light him on fire. *BEEP BEEP BEEP* KABLAM!!! NM...it's dead.

Basically, every round at the trader I have to tab and check to see if there's a demo. If there is I switch class. Because at that point, firebug is WORTHLESS.

I invite any and all constructive criticism, but don't flame. Opinions are nice too. TL;DR, get out of this thread and don't post a response, nobody cares that you didn't read everything on the Internet.
 
#4
Close range is where we operate though, I have a problem with long range as I cannot attack my target with my primary perk weapon. Not to mention that I still do not have a secondary perk weapon. Thus I am limited to using my flame thrower to maximum effectiveness and cannot switch off.

Also, while I may not detonate myself, I light myself on fire. Which was a big problem when I was lower level with the perk, body armor just cooked off. At higher levels, it and the husk are a lesser concern, but I still cannot even damage the husk hardly with my primary weapon. They're almost as immune as I am being a higher ranking firebug.

Also, to my knowledge, my grenades do not have any punch like yours do, or any other perk. I lose the explosive quality from my experience, which is partly why I'm struggling with Scrakes and Flesh Pounds.

Honestly, when there's a demo in game...if you try to play Firebug, you're only going to come out disappointed, unless you're not a team player...then you'll be dead once the bigger ones roll out.
 
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#5
1. Most other classes received much more powerful weapons by now, all but Firebug and Berserker.
2. Firebug was never that strong to begin with, and arguably one of the most one-sided perks. (All sweeping, no boss killing strength)
3. With the new and overpowered weapons, even less things come into the range that Firebug and Berserker are effective at, on top of the difference in power between perks now.
 
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#7
i would say, honestly, reduce flamethrower to like, 8 weight blocks from 10, and give the firebug incendiary ammo from say, level 4 or 5 on, with Incendiary nades + Ammo at 6

Incendiary ammo (Any bullet or explosive weapon other than nades until 6) does less damage than normal (30%?) but ignites the enemy (ala flamer)

so you could have something like an M79 which would do less damage, but ignite large groups, or an AK/SCAR/M14/Whatever to whittle away at heavy enemies

Keep the flamer as your start and you're set, you've got great up-close-and-personal damage with good damage and utility at a range without making FB too strong in the process (the reduction in damage counters the adding of burn to the weapons)
 
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#8
firebugs have their own benefits but i admit it is underpowered now.

- rescue a teammate in trouble assuming they are trapped by normal zed i can also nade myself (lvl 3+) and free myself
- sorta tank husk?
- weaken zeds
- easy kill stealing.. depending on your timing of the burn
- good for the 1st few waves
- fire nades?....

but yeah seriously they can at least make the firebug carry more ammo and increase damage to 70%...
 
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#12
Apparently the forum ate my last attempt to reply to this...unfortunately, this won't be as detailed.

The demo may have the issue with blowing himself up, but the firebug has the same issue...he lights himself on fire. While down the road, this is less of an issue, when you first start...it's a major deterrent to playing the class. It was even worse when you had to buy new body armor every round for 300 pounds. The demo has it better by being introduced in the same patch that you can repair your armor. Much cheaper.

Also, close range is where firebug must operate. Long range doesn't exist for them. While a demo can just backpedal for range and stay safe, a firebug must charge towards the fray and put himself in more risk. It's easy to get something grabbing you when you're closer to the fight, then you have less time to get free before you're pulped.

Besides, demo can always fire at the ground behind his target and achieve a kill. He can also fire downrange as far as he can see with some accuracy. His kills are instant. He's the ultimate "kill thief" because not only does he obliterate the guy he shot at, but almost everything around that target too.

Hate to say it, but firebug is dead weight when there's a demo around.
 
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#13
Commando does everything a Firebug can do but:
1. Faster
2. Without obscuring vision
3. Without worrying about running out of ammo
4. Without hurting himself
5. While seeing health bars
6. More efficiently (Headshots)
7. Allows more versatility (Bullpup, AK, SCAR)
8. Nades are more powerful (Flame grenades do almost no extra damage, it's pitiful)
9. Does more damage (With the SCAR)
10. Makes Firebug obsolete

There is no reason to have a Firebug on the team, at all.

It's there for entertainment value, like the LAW.
 
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#14
Not so, firebug is invaluable in many situations where he burns the entire massed wave approaching. He can quickly and more efficiently dispatch them, more than demo class can which is reliant on range and reloading. Although he does run out of ammo very quickly because of that.

And he kills more stalkers than anyone else...and he is crucial in killing and decloaking Patriarch.

Maybe the increase in fuel capacity would make Firebug more useful, he's the only one not getting anything anyway...
 
Upvote 0
#15
anthracy said:
Commando does everything a Firebug can do but:
1. Faster
2. Without obscuring vision
3. Without worrying about running out of ammo
4. Without hurting himself
5. While seeing health bars
6. More efficiently (Headshots)
7. Allows more versatility (Bullpup, AK, SCAR)
8. Nades are more powerful (Flame grenades do almost no extra damage, it's pitiful)
9. Does more damage (With the SCAR)
10. Makes Firebug obsolete

There is no reason to have a Firebug on the team, at all.

It's there for entertainment value, like the LAW.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately true. And now the burning "Freak outs" on Scrakes and such actually MESS UP SHOTS for teammates...

The only place Firebug shines is in tiny corridors, where they can douse dozens of specs with the fire at once. Wasting a ton of fuel one a Scrake is bad...but if it obliterates 2-3 Scrakes and a dozen enemies behind them in a corridor...not so bad! The inside of the bunker on Wyre is a shining example of it's awesomeness, as are the hallways of Office.

In those situations, Demomen and Commandos only hit the forefront of a group with their firepower, which in most cases, means Commandos/Demos sinking nades and SCAR rounds into Scrakes, which they aren't all that great against, whereas the Firebug hits the Scrake and EVERYTHING BEHIND IT!

However, outside, the Demoman outshines him and for a multi-purpose perk, the Commando is better.
 
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#16
anthracy said:
Commando does everything a Firebug can do but:
1. Faster
2. Without obscuring vision
3. Without worrying about running out of ammo
4. Without hurting himself
5. While seeing health bars
6. More efficiently (Headshots)
7. Allows more versatility (Bullpup, AK, SCAR)
8. Nades are more powerful (Flame grenades do almost no extra damage, it's pitiful)
9. Does more damage (With the SCAR)
10. Makes Firebug obsolete

There is no reason to have a Firebug on the team, at all.

It's there for entertainment value, like the LAW.
Click to expand...

11. At longer range.
 
Upvote 0
#20
Also, take away the Flame and add bullets.

A few points were brought up, firebug in hallways, and firebug decloaking the pat.

1. Commando can instantly drop specimens with headshots without waiting for them to burn down.
2. Commando can see the pat as long as he's close and can easily trace him with bullets for the rest of the team(Firebugs' flame burns out very quickly)
 
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