Ideas - Planks, Riot Shields

Switch// · Nov 1, 2009

This is going to be far different to most threads suggesting flamethrowers that shoot toxic gas or something (No offense to the person who came up with that idea, just seemed a abit ridiculous to me)

We've (we being myself and a friend) contacted TWI with these ideas, hoping we will get a response, however we wanted to post them here aswell to see what the community thought.
We have plenty more ideas we are discussing with eachother, some just small improvements or features while others are on a much larger scale.

Idea #1: Riot Shield
Takes 70-100 Hit Points until destroyed.
Costs

avp2501 · Nov 1, 2009

Please not a riot shield. you'll have 2 guys blocking the entire corridor and someone at the back with an m79

Switch// · Nov 1, 2009

avp2501 said:
Please not a riot shield. you'll have 2 guys blocking the entire corridor and someone at the back with an m79

Please realise that it has 70 Hit points, it's going to be hard to shoot past 2 guys in a corridor anyway.
We did mention this in the thread body...
And shooting a M79 in a corridor is generally a stupid idea anyway.

avp2501 · Nov 1, 2009

Play bedlam - theres a corridor just off the courtyard. stay in the corner and everyone just use m79 and m32. nothing can get near you and you never get hurt either.

plus in that spot you can stand on something and you have a perfect height over your team members even standing up.

Switch// · Nov 1, 2009

avp2501 said:
Play bedlam - theres a corridor just off the courtyard. stay in the corner and everyone just use m79 and m32. nothing can get near you and you never get hurt either.

plus in that spot you can stand on something and you have a perfect height over your team members even standing up.

Yeah okay mate that totally makes a big freaking difference.
1 Map, 1 Spot. You can't get hurt in it regardless so how does that effect the use of a shield? Jesus christ try and gather better evidence than just

"BUT DIS MAP HAS DIS SPOT"

Outsider · Nov 1, 2009

Well, IMHO, the perk which should have a discount on a shield would be the Field Medic and the Support specialist.
But to avoid an eternal wall while others fire grenade from behind, the shield would have an health bar instead of the number of munition.

Switch// · Nov 1, 2009

Outsider said:
Well, IMHO, the perk which should have a discount on a shield would be the Field Medic and the Support specialist.
But to avoid an eternal wall while others fire grenade from behind, the shield would have an health bar instead of the number of munition.

Well really it was meant to have a 'health bar' much like your Health and Armour in game. I don't really see the point in making a totally newly styled health bar for it.
But I get what you mean, not a half bad idea.

-=AG=- Avery · Nov 1, 2009

Shield is a good idea but I think zerks should only get it (as in its specific to them like the get a discount and what not). You would have to be able to switch between it and your other weapons. It should also do damage when it smacks. If you jump on a crawlers head it does damage so I think a shield deserves the benifit of the doubt.

Planks sound interesting it would allow groups to effectively defend easier. Might be to game changing allows doors to stay up much longer.

dextronaut · Nov 1, 2009

the idea of the riot shield is stupid. wake up man, this is killing floor, its about murder

i dont need a right click that shoves em away, and i certainly dont need a riot shield to keep the zombies away from me, because once you become a man by realizing that KF is better when its more challenging, all you need is a good head on your shoulders to get you out of these situations, not riot shields and pushing zombies away ala l4d.

[UIT] Akame · Nov 1, 2009

I would have gone to the community first to test the waters and fine tune my ideas before sending them to TWI. It seems slightly presumptuous to believe that your idea is the right idea. I have a million ideas about how I would do something or what I would add to the game but I don't sent them directly to TWI. Besides they read this forum to get idea because they don't need one million emails about ideas someone had and because criticism on ideas is a healthy way to improve them.

On that note I would say that both of your ideas fit within the flavor of the game but if you play many long nights of this game (particularly on harder difficulties) you would notice that neither of these ideas are really worthwhile to implement.

1) The plank- support specialists are a very powerful class (gun-wise) and have welder power enough to weld most doors to 100% in seconds. This doesn't cost anything and hardly takes time. The welder is free and has infinite ammp (over time). Weld hardly plays a huge role in gameplay and particularly a stop gag measure, that can't be healed, costs money, and doesn't offer significant use clearly is not going to be used much, if ever.

2) Riot Shield- Thie game is about damage. On suicidal this weapon would be useless for any stopping power. If you've got specs that are reaching you, you're going to die. Even on hard this thing could hardly take more than a few hits. I've seen better implementation, like allowing a side arm to be used in conjunction with the shield but what it comes down to is this:
If you are using a shield, you could be killing them instead. There is not reason to take the damage when you could just kill the specs. That is the reason why many people don't like seeing medics in suicidal.
...
And medics can still fire guns.

Switch// · Nov 2, 2009

At 2 people above.

1) We've fine tuned our ideas together, these are notes from a document when we first came up with the idea. We've explained mostly everything needed and how it will effect gameplay. It is TWI's decision to change any values we have added, we never said that they wern't allowed to do that.

2) "DIS GAME IS ABOUT MURDER" Once you're done being that badass guy you think you are maybe you'll see sense.
The Riot Shield is used tactically, keep specimens back while your squad reloads weapons, falls back or even heal eachother.
If you don't have reloaded weapons and a lack of health you can't exactly MURDA everything, unless you're willing to fight off a wave of 200 on suicidal with your knife on 10hp.

3) We both know the power support specialists contain, it was better than just saying "NO PERK AT ALL" as it doesn't fit in with the current way TWI are treating the perk system. If that door is about to blow and you KNOW you can't hold it up, placing some quick planks over it to build up durability isn't going to kill anyone, it just buys you a bit of time much like the Riot Shield.

You're both cleary these badass level 6 guys who seriously have some problem realising that other people arn't as 'skilled' as you think you are.
It adds a more tactical element to the game rather then just the current state you think it has of "KILL KILL KILL" you can't tell me you've never needed to fall back, heal yourself or need more to time to reload.

Skunkee · Nov 2, 2009

Switch// said:
This is going to be far different to most threads...

Switch// · Nov 2, 2009

Well okay Mr.Facts

Did I claim this was my own ORIGINAL UBER IDEA, I said different to most threads in here with "TOXIC FLAMEZZZ" This is a realisitic and hardly ridiculous idea compared to most. So no, search is not my friend in this situation.
So no, I did not so I don't see what your point was there. They cleary arn't terrible ideas if they keep getting suggested

It's not MY fault that maps have 'abuse' spots.

Why the planks? Because as I freaking said, if that door is going to break against your best power then you need to reinforce it. You reinforce it gives you more time to fall back and gain a new position. They wern't intended to be used as a melee weapon, but imagine the scenario:
The door is about to break so you try and set up a plank, OH NO THE DOOR HAS BROKEN so you freaking slap that ***** in the FACE with a plank.

You see how I can be Mr.Facts too? Hmm?

Acemaster · Nov 2, 2009

Switch// said:
Well okay Mr.Facts

Did I claim this was my own ORIGINAL UBER IDEA
No, I did not so I don't see what your point was there. They cleary arn't terrible ideas if they keep getting suggested

It's not MY fault that maps have 'abuse' spots.

Why the planks? Because as I freaking said, if that door is going to break against your best power then you need to reinforce it. You reinforce it gives you more time to fall back and gain a new position. They wern't intended to be used as a melee weapon, but imagine the scenario:
The door is about to break so you try and set up a plank, OH NO THE DOOR HAS BROKEN so you freaking slap that ***** in the FACE with a plank.

You see how I can be Mr.Facts too? Hmm?

You claimed this was not going to be like other threads so He posted a link to other threads with the same ideas And nobody wants to buy a plank, Plus if the door is about to break and you cant weld it So you try to put a plank on it, Shouldent it take some time to put a plank on it? its not like you just throw a plank at a door and it magically Sticks, Riot shield wouldent be very helpful.

THIS THREAD IS DILDOS

[UIT] Akame · Nov 2, 2009

@Switch
Please read my post again. TWI doesn't need everyone sending them mail. They read the forums.

I have level 6 in exactly one perk (I've got one level 6, two level 4s, and the rest are level ) and I understand where you want to insert this tactical element, but with the current trend in KF (the same way the mod went when it went retail) puts a vast emphasis of damage output. The tactical element in the game is based on where you are and how you deal with threats. In the same way you want to have a plank, so if a support isn't doing their job welding (which I have found to be a very underwhelming skill in terms of usefulness), I could want a healing grenade because "what if my teammates are about to die and I need to quickly give them health." The plank cost money I could be spending on ammo and weapons for a use I already can get out of my free welder.

Why keep enemies off your team with a shield when you could just kill them.

placing some quick planks over it to build up durability isn't going to kill anyone, it just buys you a bit of time much like the Riot Shield.

It will kill everyone if you forgo ammo or weapons for this. Buying time so you can just get slaughtered later because you can't keep up your DPS.

you can't tell me you've never needed to fall back, heal yourself or need more to time to reload.

When I fall back to reload someone else fires their weapon. I don't want to hear, "Don't worry guys I got this. While you guys heal and reload I'll just waste my money and get mobbed because I decided to get a shield and forgo firepower."

Skunkee · Nov 2, 2009

Switch// said:
Well okay Mr.Facts

Did I claim this was my own ORIGINAL UBER IDEA, I said different to most threads in here with "TOXIC FLAMEZZZ" This is a realisitic and hardly ridiculous idea compared to most. So no, search is not my friend in this situation.
So no, I did not so I don't see what your point was there. They cleary arn't terrible ideas if they keep getting suggested

It's not MY fault that maps have 'abuse' spots.

Why the planks? Because as I freaking said, if that door is going to break against your best power then you need to reinforce it. You reinforce it gives you more time to fall back and gain a new position. They wern't intended to be used as a melee weapon, but imagine the scenario:
The door is about to break so you try and set up a plank, OH NO THE DOOR HAS BROKEN so you freaking slap that ***** in the FACE with a plank.

You see how I can be Mr.Facts too? Hmm?

All I see you being is Mr. Butthurt after reading everyone's replies to your terrible ideas. Every reply you've made has just been a whiny rant rather than accepting/analyzing constructive criticisms.

Riot shield is beating a dead horse since that's been suggested since before the AK-47 update (and still hasn't made it in game. Wonder why?), and the planks would serve no purpose. Support can already weld doors pretty well, and if a door is breaking because of too many specimens hitting it you can just have 2 people on the door (one support and one non support is more than enough to hold any door) instead of wasting man hours programming and designing a crap item that would ultimately serve no purpose.

Switch// · Nov 2, 2009

Stop failing please. The both of you.

I don't care what the current 'trends' in Killing Floor are, you're basing the outcome of the ideas based on your biased outcome.
You all say "BUT KF IS JUST KILL ****ING KILLLLL"
I don't do that, I play tactically and waste as less ammo as possible keeping as much distance from me and the specimens as possible. The shield puts more distance between my squad and the specimens. The more distance you have, the more time you have to be accurate with your shots.

Stop going on about how support specialists can weld a door so ****ing well with their FREE WELDER MY GOD
Support specialists have huge ammounts of firepower, you lose him to keep a door welded every wave and you lose 1/6 of your maximum firepower.
Your team needs help? Wack a plank up quickly to hold it a little while so you can just give a helping hand.
Wasting money you say? Be more careful with your god damn money. As I said if you play tactically you will have less ammo wasted meaning less money

[UIT] Akame · Nov 2, 2009

You are rather filled with rage, my friend. This is an internet forum and we are here to create/criticize ideas so as to better a game not get into a fight about others failing or being noobs.

On the money point, you are correct that it would be rare that you don't have the money but it still isn't free like the welder. You lose firepower having a person welding and that is why I rarely weld at all. In that regard you have make my point for me.

you lose him to keep a door welded every wave and you lose 1/6 of your maximum firepower

So don't weld. I rarely do. A plank is a poor quick replacement for a underwhelming game mechanic that you get for free.

I don't care what the current 'trends' in Killing Floor are, you're basing the outcome of the ideas based on your biased outcome.

I am saying KF is already like what I described and, I believe, heading towards a particular direction. Regardless of the validity of my belief of what will come in the future the way KF has already moved (the addition of tier 3 weapons) provides more firepower which marginalizes actions other that firing your weapon (you lose more team firepower by not firing now than before the update). Not firing has to provide a huge effect to be a useful action and tanking is definately not one of these. With the exception of FPs the proportional damage/health is weighted in favor of specs owning you if you can't keep them off, but being easily dispatched with very moderate firepower. A shield means taking that damage while outputing no damage of your own.

Switch// · Nov 2, 2009

Yes, I'm filled with rage. You keep repeating the same crap over and over.
You look at it from a current 'LETS JUMP AND SHOOT EM FAGS' point of view, look at it from a tactical, more structured gameplay type point of view and you'll find that these ideas can be implimented well.

You criticise the ideas half the time about how maps are not fitted to the ideas because they are easy to 'abuse' well the solution? Make new maps...
If there are 'abuse' spots in maps, there shouldn't be and therefore may get fixed if TWI notices them. So I'd hardly say you should base your feedback on that.

I'd hardly say a solution is "don't weld" because imagine a map where you barricade yourself in, 2 entrys, one in the front and one in the back.
You need to keep a welder at the back to hold the door up or you get attacked from both ways. Can I just say that not everyone will have the money to gain the highest tier of weaponry, on every server, structured or not you will have someone totally whoring the scoreboard and have all the money. He/She will think of himself first like a normal person and buy everything he can leaving no money for his fellow squad, so his squad has to buy cheaper weapons.

I'm going to give up right now seems as you fail to see the obvious.

[UIT] Akame · Nov 2, 2009

You keep repeating the same crap over and over.

Because you have failed to properly answer my critisms beyond telling me I fail, I believe I'm too skilled, and fail to be tactically minded. And yet, point per point, respond to your contentions to no avail. It seems obvious that you are not interested in abandoning your idea because of one person's opinions but to suggest an idea without being able to defend it beyond berating others doesn't show a thorough thought process.

You look at it from a current 'LETS JUMP AND SHOOT EM FAGS' point of view, look at it from a tactical, more structured gameplay type point of view and you'll find that these ideas can be implimented well.

<sarcasm> You look at it from a current 'LETS BE STUPID AND FAIL AT TACTICS' point of view, look at it from a DPS-based, more structured gameplay type point of view and you'll find that these ideas can't be implimented well. </sarcasm> As you can see you point is rather flimsy if it can be reproduced by the oposing side and seem just as relevant. You are just making your side sound better rather than actually defending your point.

You criticise the ideas half the time about how maps are not fitted to the ideas because they are easy to 'abuse' well the solution? Make new maps...

Well I never even mentioned anything like that. And remaking all maps broken by adding a single item item is a terrible idea, but since I'm saying your idea weapon/item is actually not useful, much less broken.

I'd hardly say a solution is "don't weld" [...] so his squad has to buy cheaper weapons.

I fail to see how this makes a difference. If you make no money on putting a board on a door and spend money on it. Assuming welding is necessary, as you do, someone has to weld and a board hardly makes a difference beyond getting a few more kills by spending a few more pounds. A good team (not all team but many) will have at least a few people that share money with those who are doing work for the team and getting less money. Also you still get money, for most more than they get for kills, in bonus at the end of the wave. By this same token a shield doesn't get you kills either.

Ideas - Planks, Riot Shields

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