Bring back the FP decap

[robdude19]

Axe the new decap

Axe the new decap

I think most will agree that headshot vulnerability makes the fp's far too weak with the new uber weapons. give them a hard head to promote teamwork and make them the tanks they're supposed to be.

The old decap issue seems pretty much split down the middle, but the new decap is far worse. It's way too easy to kill fp's from down range, long before they're even a threat. Take away the new headshot vulnerability and let the team work together to bring down the fp's like they should. Same with scrake.

Berzerker: "They took our jiiooobs!" "They took our DERRRR"

 

[Jabau]

It's either easy or you're unlucky (which is annoying). I don't think any part of the game should be based on luck. This isn't a Nintendo game, this isn't a game for kids, it's meant to be a more serious game that requires skill, not luck.


No, using the knife did take some careful timing sometimes, but do you seriously see nothing wrong with being able to kill the most powerful specimen with just a single knife attack to the head? If you do I'm pretty sure it's because you want the game to be easy with no regard to what makes sense or not.


Of they could just do it properly and work as a team in the first place? Saying "oh, but if it didn't go well the team might have to step in!" doesn't help its case as a feature that promotes teamwork.

I'm starting to get the feeling that you're just skimming over what I say.

The notion that it was "just luck", when things didn't go right, never crossed my mind. It got messed up because people didn't time it right, they fired too early, too late, weren't right up in his face etc. If it didn't work for you, it's not because of "luck", you just didn't do it right.

If you read what I said before, no I don't see a problem with the knife killing a Fleshpound. That moment when he stuck his neck out was his one vulnerability. Any melee weapon, be it a knife, sword, axe, whatever, should decapitate, or atleast, partially decapitate him, but I don't believe there's a 'dangling head' feature in the game(either way it would act the same as cutting it's head off). No matter how much vitality you have, no matter how tough you may be, you should have a weakness, an opening, and decapitation should take you down.

Did you even read what I said? The team was involved all along. Yes, they could have done that from the start, there just happened to be a way that was more resource efficient and if done right, safer for the whole team. Simple fact is that the team could have all hammered the Fleshpound from the start, but they chose not to despite the risk of one of their members messing it up and probably dying, why do you think that is? It's not the systems fault, it's the choice of the team. And if you actually read my post, I state why I don't believe it should be a purely team reliant task.

 

[outofrealman]

I think most will agree that headshot vulnerability makes the fp's far too weak with the new uber weapons. give them a hard head to promote teamwork and make them the tanks they're supposed to be.

The old decap issue seems pretty much split down the middle, but the new decap is far worse. It's way too easy to kill fp's from down range, long before they're even a threat. Take away the new headshot vulnerability and let the team work together to bring down the fp's like they should. Same with scrake.

Berzerker: "They took our jiiooobs!" "They took our DERRRR"

I am thinking that as long as there is a solo mode, it should be beatable. The old decap and current headshoting make this possible. If there are no way to down a fp fast enough, he will auto enrage and kill you with only one hit after you run out of armour in suicidal.

 

[Benjamin]

It got messed up because people didn't time it right, they fired too early, too late, weren't right up in his face etc. If it didn't work for you, it's not because of "luck", you just didn't do it right.

Maybe you should try multiplayer some time. There is a lot of luck involved in decapitating a Flesh Pound online. Your ping has an impact on the chance of you successfully doing it, as well as the angle of the ground you're standing on (try doing it on a slope, it's practically impossible), and you have to rely on the Flesh Pound not randomly enraging before you have a chance to do it.

That moment when he stuck his neck out was his one vulnerability.

But why does he need such a vulnerability that even beginners can do it? It makes absolutely no sense and cheapens the gameplay. As someone already said, it is intended to be the real tank specimen that takes a lot of damage before it goes down.

I still really don't understand why you want this back. Maybe you could just learn to play with others as a team rather than trying to solo the most powerful specimen in the game?

I really hope they never bring back this glitch.

 

[SMIFF]

I reckon they should bring back the fear that used to come with the fp

maybe shooting him in the head does no more damage than shooting him in the chest, leg, arm etc

so it would take a bit more teamwork to get enough damage to take him down

but even then, couple of sharpshooters with EBR's would probably do the trick

 

[Nanostrike]

Now, I tend to see either a sharp/commando just mow down everything in front of them, and bezerkers, well they are just non-existent.

See how big of a problem that is?

Yeah, well as a Berserker, I can tell you flat out that you see less of us because of exactly this. Most enemies are dead before they even get to you, and when they do, the Berserker isn't exactly great anymore. Either the Katana for single-target takedowns or the Chainsaw for...well we don't use the Chainsaw anymore. Most of us Zerkers have outright switched classes. I'm usually a medic now. At least their tanking has a purpose...

Funny, Sharpshooter and Commando ammunition costs absolutely jack ****. The cash horders tend to be the Supporters and Demomen who need an obscene amount of cash to fund what are, lets be honest, terrible weapons when compared with the M14, Crossbow and SCAR.

Shotguns and Nades/Flamethrowers are all about crowd control. That group of a dozen clots/gorefasts that's eating your ammo? Crowd control weapons pretty much vaporize them out of the way. And Shotguns are INVALUABLE for when things go to point-blank range, like charging Scrakes/FPs.

They're expensive but that's what Mr. Shoe was trying to point out: Sharpshooters need to share their money with Demos/Supports/Firebugs if they're taking all the kills and most of 'em don't. They'll sit on a couple grand "Just in case" while letting the team be stuck with sucky weapons, no ammo, no armor, or all of the above!

Removing it with a Crossbow headshot from a lvl6 Sharpshooter? Its probably glitched too given how it didn't happen before, but at least the source of the kill is a powerful 1.

They basically took a Berserker/Commando gift and gave it outright to the Sharpshooter, who DIDN'T NEED IT! They can already kill FPs just fine without the decap in 2 shots. The decap just makes it a ridiculous 1-hit kill. IF they use the Crossbow. Giving it the "Hard Head" property would make it immune to the decap and thus, once you hit it in the head it'll rage and you'll have to SKILLFULLY get off that second shot to finish him or, *GASP* rely on teammates to finish it!

Most Sharpies lately are M-14 Spam addicts who never touch the Crossbow and couldn't aim with it if they did! The Crossbow is the TRUE power of the Sharpshooter, to be quite honest, but the M-14 converts ("Sharpshooter SUCKED without M-14!!!!1!" is their battlecry...) don't seem to know or care...

 

[Undedd Jester]

Here's to not nixing the sharpshooter's and the commando's one niche in the game.

SharpShooters on the other hand excel at everything, so I really don't understand that.

I must admit, much as I like the Sharpshooter, it doesn't really have a niche, it can kill literally anything on the field. I'm typically a Medic myself, so even being effectively a level 0 Sharpshooter I can still use the crossbow to kill Clots, Stalkers and Crawlers on masse, headshot Bloats, Sirens, Gorefasts, Husks and Scrakes with ease, and although its alot harder I seem to do significant damage to the Fleshpound (usually a high level support can follow in and finish it pretty quick).

If I can do that as a Medic, and the Sharpshooter gets buffed even further, something is kinda out of whack. I realise this means I will probably lose the crossbows versatility and find it even harder to survive as a medic, but the Sharpshooter leaves there little point to using the Berserker or Firebug at all.

So I dont know whether or not to bring back the headshot decap of the fleshpound... I might possibly say having it work maybe 30% of the time for all classes would be much more interesting, but something defiantely needs to be balanced on the Sharpshooter perk either way

 

[Anemia]

I'm starting to get the feeling that you're just skimming over what I say.

The notion that it was "just luck", when things didn't go right, never crossed my mind. It got messed up because people didn't time it right, they fired too early, too late, weren't right up in his face etc. If it didn't work for you, it's not because of "luck", you just didn't do it right.

If you read what I said before, no I don't see a problem with the knife killing a Fleshpound. That moment when he stuck his neck out was his one vulnerability. Any melee weapon, be it a knife, sword, axe, whatever, should decapitate, or atleast, partially decapitate him, but I don't believe there's a 'dangling head' feature in the game(either way it would act the same as cutting it's head off). No matter how much vitality you have, no matter how tough you may be, you should have a weakness, an opening, and decapitation should take you down.

Did you even read what I said? The team was involved all along. Yes, they could have done that from the start, there just happened to be a way that was more resource efficient and if done right, safer for the whole team. Simple fact is that the team could have all hammered the Fleshpound from the start, but they chose not to despite the risk of one of their members messing it up and probably dying, why do you think that is? It's not the systems fault, it's the choice of the team. And if you actually read my post, I state why I don't believe it should be a purely team reliant task.

No! The FPs are good as they are now. Its the sharpy that should be nerfed.
FPs is designed to take less dmg from small guns. What does that mean? That they should have a silly lil spot where you can kill it just by looking at it? I mean seriously? Their "one vulnerability" is big guns like law, nades ect. (or should be).

I do can agree with you that the sharpshooterperk is OP. I can easily take the patty on suicidal alone with m14 and thats not how its supposed to be. So deal high dmg, Fine. but not bloody instakill it. The perks who should take the final piece of the cake (hehe) should be support and demo.

 

[outofrealman]

IMO, as long as there is a solo mode, it should be beatable. The old decap and the current headshotting makes it possible to beat even in suicidal.

However killing the fp with only a headshot is too ridiculously easy. I will never consider the fp decap as lamb or noob way to kill him. You are absolutely lucky if you found the fp alone. As long as there are bloat/siren/gorefast or even clot is around the fp, you cannot just walk to him and decap. Most of the time the fp enrage before you kill the specimens around him and he badly hurt you. At last wave in solo suicidal, two of them will spawn and if you can't found them out and decap once they spawn, you are dead for over 90% of the time, the first fp enrages and torn your armour and the second one instan-kill you even you have full health.

Is fp decaping really that bad? I don't think so. Most likely the one-shot killing fp will be fixed in the next patch, but that may make suicidal not beatable in solo. Then what solo mode is for? Only leveling?

So I prefer the fp decap more than one-shot killing. Or I will support any ideas that make the later waves more challenging but beatable on solo.

 

[Anemia]

IMO, as long as there is a solo mode, it should be beatable. The old decap and the current headshotting makes it possible to beat even in suicidal.

However killing the fp with only a headshot is too ridiculously easy. I will never consider the fp decap as lamb or noob way to kill him. You are absolutely lucky if you found the fp alone. As long as there are bloat/siren/gorefast or even clot is around the fp, you cannot just walk to him and decap. Most of the time the fp enrage before you kill the specimens around him and he badly hurt you. At last wave in solo suicidal, two of them will spawn and if you can't found them out and decap once they spawn, you are dead for over 90% of the time, the first fp enrages and torn your armour and the second one instan-kill you even you have full health.

Is fp decaping really that bad? I don't think so. Most likely the one-shot killing fp will be fixed in the next patch, but that may make suicidal not beatable in solo. Then what solo mode is for? Only leveling?

So I prefer the fp decap more than one-shot killing. Or I will support any ideas that make the later waves more challenging but beatable on solo.

Hehe are you serious? Never tried to fill the fp with bullets? You can do it completely safe with an AA12. Or blow them up with either explosives or nadelaunchers? 1 pipebomb can kill several fps (ive killed over 10 in one pipebomb, poundamonium + demoperk5+suicidal).

I can tell you this much. Suicidal solo will be beatable even if you cant decap or instakill fps. Still very very beatable, sure alil harder for sharpys but wont make so much sence in general. And for your information, Suicidal isnt supposed to be easy ^^

Why not only make it more resistant to small arms and give it higher "head-hp"?

 

[outofrealman]

Hehe are you serious? Never tried to fill the fp with bullets? You can do it completely safe with an AA12. Or blow them up with either explosives or nadelaunchers? 1 pipebomb can kill several fps (ive killed over 10 in one pipebomb, poundamonium + demoperk5+suicidal).

I can tell you this much. Suicidal solo will be beatable even if you cant decap or instakill fps. Still very very beatable, sure alil harder for sharpys but wont make so much sence in general. And for your information, Suicidal isnt supposed to be easy ^^

Why not only make it more resistant to small arms and give it higher "head-hp"?

As I said, you need to be a high level demo to kill a fp with only one pipebomb, also, the fp have to be found before he enrages at the last wave, sometimes I get lucky when two fps at the last wave spawn together beside me and I just lay down 2 pipebombs (as a medic) and BOMB, the whole wave is much easier. However, most of the time they will not spawn together and I cant just lay down pipebombs to blow them coz the specimens infront of him will set it off already. And then he enrages, pipebombs can hurt him a bit as he is running too fast, pipebome is a good weapon against the fp but you need to found him before he enrages.
It seems to me without the fp decap, suicidal base on luck more than skill. Or may I ask how you kill the 2 fps at last wave if you cant find them at the begining of the wave and they enrage together?

 

[Jabau]

Maybe you should try multiplayer some time. /etc

*bangs head out of frustration*... I now realise that I'm wasting my time. Congratulations, you have officially worn me down to my last thread of sanity. I'm giving up talking to you.

No! The FPs are good as they are now. Its the sharpy that should be nerfed.
FPs is designed to take less dmg from small guns. What does that mean? That they should have a silly lil spot where you can kill it just by looking at it? I mean seriously? Their "one vulnerability" is big guns like law, nades ect. (or should be).

Except that the LAW is very impractical(but I do agree that the LAW should be much more effective than it is now) and nades are very limited/class specific anyway. Yes, I can see how that would get the team involved, and how it would make other classes important to the team, but that leaves nothing for soloing ability, or not even that, let's say half your team gets wiped out and you lose your support/demo/whatever you want the FP exterminator class to be. What then? The likeliness of the rest of the team having their nades still is very poor, as they would have been used in a desperate attempt to kill the first one or two Fleshpounds, and even if you had other classes capable of doing the damage required, the AA12 for instance could possibly do it, but it's not very ammo efficient(so wasting a clip on a Fleshpound isn't exactly a great deal) and requires close range, so the support is more than likely gonna die before he can kill it. That's also provided that your whole team is sitting in the same spot and you're on a map which allows all this, you know, has nice open area, allows you to move back alot, allows for heals after the FP attackfest etc.

I would say that the SharpShooter is overpowered, but I can't agree that this FP system is a good one. I don't care if this is a co-op game, when you're trying to win a game, teamwork is important, but it doesn't last. I just think the old system was fair, had a good amount of risk, took some teamwork whilst still being soloable, and was much, much better than it is now.

The Fleshpound is a big mob, so why can't getting right up, practically underneath him into his fleshy little neck/chin area, and blowing/cutting his face off when he bends over to pound you(and exposes that soft spot) seem plausible? Basically you're simply bypassing his defences and getting into his soft spot.. then blowing it off. It didn't insta-kill the Fleshpound, but as I said before, no matter how much vitality something may have, if you remove it's head(or alteast all the bits that make it a head), it should die..eventually.

If the decap system was brought back, why couldn't they still make the LAW/nades very effictive against Fleshpounds? that would make it much easier on the team, while still leaving options available if you lose specific members of the team. Also, as it was with the decap system, if your whole team simply hammered the FP, you could bring it down, and I don't recall any class being overpowered at dealing with them that way. Seems to me that's what people are looking for.

 

[rckrdude]

1. Buff the fp's health big time to account for the new weapons.
2. Give the decap ability only to the chainsaw.
3. ????
4. Profit

If you've played on suicidal though, you will NOT like step 1.

 

[pocoyo]

Now that the decap is gone, everyone wants it back. I guess you can never make everyone happy. Decap was nice when you wanted to solo the map with the zerker, now you can still do it with your trusty Hand Canon, 9mm, a M14EBR and the new M79 only drawback is that now instead of having the zeds 10ft behind you now are 50ft at a much safer distance .

I was able to take out FP's with 1 crossbow headshot with a lv6 SS on a 6man server on Hard. Haven't got to FP's on sucidial yet since the patch and i don't bother to play on sucidal because there are too many new people.

LOL the devs never stops surprising me, always some class comes out on top after a "fix". First was the Uber Medic, then the Super Zerker now the Sharpshooter.

As of now if you are the last one left with fleshpounds and you happen to be a berzerker, medic, support, demolition and what not the useless firebug you better throw some grenades and suicide. I say you still have a chance with comando only if you have the SCAR.

 

[Griever]

No! The FPs are good as they are now. Its the sharpy that should be nerfed.

This.

At the moment, this game requires no other perks than just sharpshooters. I mean, only 1 sharpshooter wipes the entire wave by himself, where do we need the other perks who needs bunch of money to do what they do (support or demo), when you can easily kill everything in the game with sharpshooter and using only a little money? That is absolutely absurd.

Give back FP decap with 9mm or knife? -Hell no.
Nerf sharpshooters? -Big time.
Give ONLY to chainsaw the ability to decap FP? -mhm. whatever. As long as you can't decap them with knife or 9mm, with 1 hit!

Oh btw, I saw someone saying that decapping FP with a knife/9mm required lot's of skills and it would be risky. <--- This made me laugh so much that I've never laughed so much before.
First: decapping FP with 9mm or knife required jack s***. I was able to do it 100% of the time and I never got hit by them after decap (of course you got hit if they were already on rage, we are talking bout those FP's who are NOT raging already), not to mention that you were able to decap them with bullpup blindfolded.
On the other hand, It sounds good to me if the chainsaw would be the only weapon that would be able to do the decap. But the FP's stupid and ridiculous weakness from sharpshooters has to go.

Also, do something with the berserker class TWI

 

[Jabau]

This.

At the moment, this game requires no other perks than just sharpshooters. I mean, only 1 sharpshooter wipes the entire wave by himself, where do we need the other perks who needs bunch of money to do what they do (support or demo), when you can easily kill everything in the game with sharpshooter and using only a little money? That is absolutely absurd.

Give back FP decap with 9mm or knife? -Hell no.
Nerf sharpshooters? -Big time.
Give ONLY to chainsaw the ability to decap FP? -mhm. whatever. As long as you can't decap them with knife or 9mm, with 1 hit!

Oh btw, I saw someone saying that decapping FP with a knife/9mm required lot's of skills and it would be risky. <--- This made me laugh so much that I've never laughed so much before.
First: decapping FP with 9mm or knife required jack s***. I was able to do it 100% of the time and I never got hit by them after decap (of course you got hit if they were already on rage, we are talking bout those FP's who are NOT raging already), not to mention that you were able to decap them with bullpup blindfolded.
On the other hand, It sounds good to me if the chainsaw would be the only weapon that would be able to do the decap. But the FP's stupid and ridiculous weakness from sharpshooters has to go.

Also, do something with the berserker class TWI

First off, the Berserker class is fine. But we're not here to discuss that.

No one said killing the Fleshpound with a 9mm took skill, and yes, there was always risk associated. Also, with the Knife, it did infact take good timing, which can translate to skill.

SharpShooters should be nerfed, no objection there.

Making the Chainsaw the only weapon able to decap would simply create much of the same argument, only this time it would be against Berserkers.

 

[KayossZero]

This.

At the moment, this game requires no other perks than just sharpshooters. I mean, only 1 sharpshooter wipes the entire wave by himself, where do we need the other perks who needs bunch of money to do what they do (support or demo), when you can easily kill everything in the game with sharpshooter and using only a little money? That is absolutely absurd.

Give back FP decap with 9mm or knife? -Hell no.
Nerf sharpshooters? -Big time.
Give ONLY to chainsaw the ability to decap FP? -mhm. whatever. As long as you can't decap them with knife or 9mm, with 1 hit!

Oh btw, I saw someone saying that decapping FP with a knife/9mm required lot's of skills and it would be risky. <--- This made me laugh so much that I've never laughed so much before.
First: decapping FP with 9mm or knife required jack s***. I was able to do it 100% of the time and I never got hit by them after decap (of course you got hit if they were already on rage, we are talking bout those FP's who are NOT raging already), not to mention that you were able to decap them with bullpup blindfolded.
On the other hand, It sounds good to me if the chainsaw would be the only weapon that would be able to do the decap. But the FP's stupid and ridiculous weakness from sharpshooters has to go.

Also, do something with the berserker class TWI

So you're part of a .05% of the population that can kill FP's with a Knife prepatch, congrats want a cookie? Thinking you can associate your skills to the vast majority of the player base isn't very bright. This isn't a PVP game where the top 5-10% of the base should have balance catered to them, this is a casual laid back game overall and the balance should reflect that IMO.

 

[Lukkas]

I think the game currently has a problem with all the perks trying to fill the same niche. Medic is medic, but aside from that, everyone is about sweeping trash mobs, either by burning them away, blowing them away, chopping them away or riddling them with holes.

The only difference is that sharpshooter and support have the fire power to take on the big stuff as well as sweep. SS and support look OP because they can kill FP too easily (Support to a lesser extent), and also have very little problem being overrun, even when alone. This is the balance I think should exist: A class is either good at taking out the big boys and needs help keeping the trash off him, or a class is excellent at mowing down trash but can barely scratch the scrake and FP.

Firebug fits the trash cleaner role perfectly, and is very limited against scrake/FP. He's a perfect example of a well balanced perk.

People have a problem with the sharpshooter now because he's far too good at both. We also no longer have any classes that are exclusively good at taking out large targets.

In my mind, Berserker should be the opposite of the Firebug - designed for taking care of the FP. I think the FP should be weak to at least one melee weapon, to give Berserker this role.

And something must be done with sharpshooter, to either make him more vulnerable to large groupings of enemies (less clips, longer reloads), or more vulnerable to big zeds (less damage).

Thoughts?

 

[outofrealman]

I think the game currently has a problem with all the perks trying to fill the same niche. Medic is medic, but aside from that, everyone is about sweeping trash mobs, either by burning them away, blowing them away, chopping them away or riddling them with holes.

The only difference is that sharpshooter and support have the fire power to take on the big stuff as well as sweep. SS and support look OP because they can kill FP too easily (Support to a lesser extent), and also have very little problem being overrun, even when alone. This is the balance I think should exist: A class is either good at taking out the big boys and needs help keeping the trash off him, or a class is excellent at mowing down trash but can barely scratch the scrake and FP.

Firebug fits the trash cleaner role perfectly, and is very limited against scrake/FP. He's a perfect example of a well balanced perk.

People have a problem with the sharpshooter now because he's far too good at both. We also no longer have any classes that are exclusively good at taking out large targets.

In my mind, Berserker should be the opposite of the Firebug - designed for taking care of the FP. I think the FP should be weak to at least one melee weapon, to give Berserker this role.

And something must be done with sharpshooter, to either make him more vulnerable to large groupings of enemies (less clips, longer reloads), or more vulnerable to big zeds (less damage).

Thoughts?

I think they should decrease the penetrating attack of crossbow and remove the penetration ability of hc and m14.

 

[Griever]

First off, the Berserker class is fine. But we're not here to discuss that.

No one said killing the Fleshpound with a 9mm took skill, and yes, there was always risk associated. Also, with the Knife, it did infact take good timing, which can translate to skill.

SharpShooters should be nerfed, no objection there.

Making the Chainsaw the only weapon able to decap would simply create much of the same argument, only this time it would be against Berserkers.

Please enlighten me, where do we need berserkers at the moment? There is supposed to be a balance in each perk so everyone has a major role in different occasions. Like
Medic: heal teammates
Commando: kill the smaller enemies such as crawlers, clots and especially stalkers. Also can warn the team when invisible boss it near.

What about zerker? Now the update came and nerfed zerker, they just run around taking damage because even gorefasts won't fall anymore when decapitating them with a chainsaw. Not to mention FF servers, they are just running in everyone's line of fire. They have no major role in any occasion. Sharpshooter took his role, SS took everyone's role to be honest.