I was actually going to type a proper response and discuss this more with you until I read this. Guess I don't need to check this thread anymore.
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The Medigun
- Thread starter 9_6
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I was actually going to type a proper response and discuss this more with you until I read this. Guess I don't need to check this thread anymore.
But, do you guys really understand where the medic fails?
Why does the medic above all other classes have to switch his MP7 just to kill some small level zeds? Doesn't it seem at all weird that a group of gorefast are more easily taken down by a 15 round magazine beretta than a 40 round magazine MP7? Does that make sense to you? If it does, don't read on or reply, my effort is fruitless if you can't grasp this concept.
None of the other classes EVER have to deal with this. You only have ONE class out of the seven that needs to switch weapons in order to kill effectively. I understand, he's a team oriented class, but so is every other class if you understand the game.
If you are killing zeds, thus saving ammo or reload time for someone else, how is the response, "Jeez, why you killing zeds you ***? That isn't teamwork!" at all valid? This game is meant to be survival, and at lvl 6, you have a character who has incredibly strong defensive capabilities, with no offensive capabilities. His weapons aren't affected at all by his perk.
Sure, he heals everybody, but with all lvl 6's I don't ever heal anyone playing beneath Suicidal level. If you're a medic at the beginning of the round, you will be sitting around for a very long time doing nothing. Waiting behind a teammate as you wait for him to accidently lose half his health, that's just boring and dumb. The arguement to play medic in later rounds is futile, because on suicidal you sometimes NEED medics the first round. Also, why make a perk that is only playable the 5th or 6th round due to its usability?
How good of a game to have a class that nobody is going to play below the hardest game mode.
*Why not let the MP7 have less recoil and firerate, and less firepower as well? The gun would not become all powerful if it was just a burst fire SMG with the same power per hit as the beretta. It wouldn't, it just wouldn't. It would only be accurate and larger clipped beretta that is better at backing the medic up than switching guns.*
Even if my complaint ended at just being able to flee and hit things with the MP7, any arguement that he is not an offensive class is still invalid because the medic having the slight ability to help clear small zed crowds would only serve to make the perk better and more tactical. It would not make some rambo touting an M60 machine gun. Literally, your arguement became invalid when you believed that having any bit of offensive ability added to the medic perk would instantly make him the strongest class.
Currently, the strongest class is the sharpshooter, hence why he is one of the only classes to not start with body armor. If giving the MP7 the ability to kill a gorefast with a three-round burst is tantamount to giving him the ability to one shot headshot everything below a patriarch, then I guess I'm wrong.
Why does the medic above all other classes have to switch his MP7 just to kill some small level zeds? Doesn't it seem at all weird that a group of gorefast are more easily taken down by a 15 round magazine beretta than a 40 round magazine MP7? Does that make sense to you? If it does, don't read on or reply, my effort is fruitless if you can't grasp this concept.
None of the other classes EVER have to deal with this. You only have ONE class out of the seven that needs to switch weapons in order to kill effectively. I understand, he's a team oriented class, but so is every other class if you understand the game.
If you are killing zeds, thus saving ammo or reload time for someone else, how is the response, "Jeez, why you killing zeds you ***? That isn't teamwork!" at all valid? This game is meant to be survival, and at lvl 6, you have a character who has incredibly strong defensive capabilities, with no offensive capabilities. His weapons aren't affected at all by his perk.
Sure, he heals everybody, but with all lvl 6's I don't ever heal anyone playing beneath Suicidal level. If you're a medic at the beginning of the round, you will be sitting around for a very long time doing nothing. Waiting behind a teammate as you wait for him to accidently lose half his health, that's just boring and dumb. The arguement to play medic in later rounds is futile, because on suicidal you sometimes NEED medics the first round. Also, why make a perk that is only playable the 5th or 6th round due to its usability?
How good of a game to have a class that nobody is going to play below the hardest game mode.
*Why not let the MP7 have less recoil and firerate, and less firepower as well? The gun would not become all powerful if it was just a burst fire SMG with the same power per hit as the beretta. It wouldn't, it just wouldn't. It would only be accurate and larger clipped beretta that is better at backing the medic up than switching guns.*
Even if my complaint ended at just being able to flee and hit things with the MP7, any arguement that he is not an offensive class is still invalid because the medic having the slight ability to help clear small zed crowds would only serve to make the perk better and more tactical. It would not make some rambo touting an M60 machine gun. Literally, your arguement became invalid when you believed that having any bit of offensive ability added to the medic perk would instantly make him the strongest class.
Currently, the strongest class is the sharpshooter, hence why he is one of the only classes to not start with body armor. If giving the MP7 the ability to kill a gorefast with a three-round burst is tantamount to giving him the ability to one shot headshot everything below a patriarch, then I guess I'm wrong.
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But if we don't have money for a stronger gun then what?
Mr. Shoe I was talking about walking and shooting the MP7 you can now do it without coming to a complete stop its just a moderate slow down now.
For Mr. Shoe's most recent response EXACTLY everything he said is supported by me Minus the fact that I think that the MP7 should do more damage then a beretta because right now farly sure it does less.
Easy way to fix all this
1. reduce recoil so that you can hit the side of a barn without luck.
2. Make it so medics make more money from healing people. You get one pound for one heal point healed so if I was to do what some suggest and not kill anything and only heal then to get a bullpup which I don't need becuase I don't need to kill stuff just saying I would have to heal 400 health points lets say on average I heal 15 for each one (thats pushing it most of the heals should be less then that but maybe at) thats 26 and 2/3rds heals before I can get a Bullpup what most consider the lowest thing anyone would dare to carry (unless your an SS) on hard and sucidial (Minus the first and maybe second wave). Thats not even including if I have to buy/repair other necessities.
3. A reduction in the length of the reload animation would allow the weapon to fire for more time then you reload.
Those things would allow Medics to be more feasible. Now before yall say that would make it OPed I don't think that the reload needs to be half a second I would like a balance so maybe two second reload animation a reduce in recoil not saying needs a lot but if by the 5th shot which takes about half a second your 6-12 inches above the zeds head from 30-40 feet thats just to much.
For the Medics getting more money for heals why not?
Other classes get to use weapons that have all these buffs then why can't the medic have a buff for what its job is?
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[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_MP7[/URL]
the HK mp7 from wiki.
please note
FEED SYSTEM: "20/30/40/45/60-round box magazine"
&
Calliber : [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.6x30mm[/URL]
basically a further chopped down rifle cartridge. (note 7.62x51 --> 5.56x45 --> 4.6x30). the center of gravity is behind the center of the munition, ergo it rolls upon impact with flesh, meaning for its size it still packs a relatively good punch against unarmoured targets.
a 60 round mag is not even unrealistic, it already exists. my suggestion would be to increase the standard size to either 30 or 40, and the medics size (depending on class level) to 45 or 60. (60 for level 6 preferably!)
the HK mp7 from wiki.
please note
FEED SYSTEM: "20/30/40/45/60-round box magazine"
&
Calliber : [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.6x30mm[/URL]
basically a further chopped down rifle cartridge. (note 7.62x51 --> 5.56x45 --> 4.6x30). the center of gravity is behind the center of the munition, ergo it rolls upon impact with flesh, meaning for its size it still packs a relatively good punch against unarmoured targets.
a 60 round mag is not even unrealistic, it already exists. my suggestion would be to increase the standard size to either 30 or 40, and the medics size (depending on class level) to 45 or 60. (60 for level 6 preferably!)
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I don't understand why you stated about the mags but no its not just a chopped down rifle cartridge. Its actually if anything a new cartridge type between Pistol rounds and Rifle rounds. It has the distance and penatration of a rifle with the compactness of a pistol. Of course there is some lose on both sides of the spectrum it is less powerful then a rifle cartridge but not much (it retains distance and penetration by it being a modified steel round/casing) and is larger then a pistol but not by much.
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In munitions, he's basically describing that it is a smaller size in comparison to the dimensions found in a rifle round.
He's actually trying to support us I believe so what he described is further proof of SMG's never producing such recoil, or any gun for that matter, while producing little to no stopping power.
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Yes I do think hes supporting us. Was correcting him I am an avid gun enthusiast. I have to correct anything gun related thats wrong (if I see it ofcourse).
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All specimens in suicidal require more than 1 shot to the head with that thing to pop it.
Tapping the mouse fires at least 2-3 rounds.
All shots except the first one will most likely miss at mid range so effectively, you only have a mag of 20 or even less shots in your mp7 due to the insane firerate.
20 or less shots which are weaker than 9mm shots, mind you.
On top of that, it has a 3 second reload but you can empty a full mag in half a second.
Now while you reload, you can't do jack ****, not shooting healing darts, not even switching to something else.
Couldn't kill that crawler with your peas not because you didn't aim propperly but because most of them missed due to randomness and your ally only has 1 pixel health left?
Too bad for him, all you can do is watch.
Understand the issue now?
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Yeah, teammates dieing because of the incredible long and incredible beautiful reload animation happened sometimes to me. I'm more careful to reload now, just because of that.
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I will first state that im ONLY playing on suicidal, and I assume that everyone here is doing that aswell. Im playing medic at 60% of the games. And(!) it works very well! As a medic I mainly heal people. But yes i do kill some zeds aswell. And i do agree that the medigun is weak. But when do you Acually need a strong gun as a medic? Quite often gorefasts, stalkers, crawlers and clots slip through the defence and either starts to attack me or the backs of my fellas. Which gives me the responsibility to take them out. And as a lot of people have stated it only requires a couple of shots to kill all the zeds i mentioned. though the gorefasts maybe will continue walking after decap (quite a problem, yes). But i think you guys should think of the medicgun as gun that only can shoot medicdarts but got Boosted so it can shoot regular bullets aswell.
Please think about it? If the medic gun couldnt kill anything, I at least would still have bought it due to the uberwin of ranged healing. Its a bloody medic(gun/dartshooter?) not a killing machine.
@Mr. Shoe, ("Sure, he heals everybody, but with all lvl 6's I don't ever heal anyone playing beneath Suicidal level."): Yes thats 100% true. same goes for some suicidal games. Sometimes you've got so good defence that the medics isnt needed at all. Then dont be a medic, or at least dont use the medicgun due to its megarecoil and low damage. You should be able to see if you're needed or not. If not, you're not being any use to the team and you should consider changing perk. I think you understand what i mean. (Its just like someone who whines about not being able to kill anything with his shotties due to the fact that he's playing on a highranged map and tries to shoot them at a great distance). Im not sure you agree with me but i think lvl6 should be playing on suicidal. Everyone isnt lvl6 and alot of people
And as for your first statement about the whimpy mp7 i can fully agree with you, it bloody sucks. And even if you use it right it Sucks at killing stuff. And if it's worse than the 9mm doesnt really matter its a question about balance. If it would be better i would have used it all the time. Just like you have to switch weapon from medsyringe you often have to do it with the mp7 aswell.
@-=AG=- Avery, ("For the Medics getting more money for heals why not? Other classes get to use weapons that have all these buffs then why can't the medic have a buff for what its job is?"): About the money I dont know how it works but the cash-span seems to be pretty wide, i get from 12-4/heal. And i find it enough to buy the equips for next wave. And then I might kill maybe ~10 zeds/wave and heal as much as possible.
Dont you consider the medicbuffs as buffs? The armor? Or the insane running speed. I mean if they encourage the medics do deal damage the old kitting will come back (thats what i think at least), ive already seen an increase of kitters due to the increased armor and running speed.
@9_6, ("Now while you reload, you can't do jack ****, not shooting healing darts, not even switching to something else.", "Understand the issue now?"): No i dont. Its the same with almost all other weaps. And i agree that its a problem that should be fixed. But until it is you cant just reload when you're out of bullets. If your friend needs help and you need to reload, dont press the R button, bring up the 9mm instead and shoot the crawler. I hope you understand that its the same with all guns, the only difference is that the mp7s spread is much higher than most of the guns. Maybe you should get a backup gun?
I think it's sad that everyone bashes the poor mp7 due to the fact that it isnt as good at killing zeds as the other guns. While its divine in healing. I almost always play like this: mp7+crossbow, mp7 for the crawlies that gets close (even though that almost never happen), and crossbow for killing sirens and husks for the people. But it's almost always useless to be medic while playing 2-3players.
Im sorry for the long post, hopefully there isnt to many typos and such.
Please think about it? If the medic gun couldnt kill anything, I at least would still have bought it due to the uberwin of ranged healing. Its a bloody medic(gun/dartshooter?) not a killing machine.
@Mr. Shoe, ("Sure, he heals everybody, but with all lvl 6's I don't ever heal anyone playing beneath Suicidal level."): Yes thats 100% true. same goes for some suicidal games. Sometimes you've got so good defence that the medics isnt needed at all. Then dont be a medic, or at least dont use the medicgun due to its megarecoil and low damage. You should be able to see if you're needed or not. If not, you're not being any use to the team and you should consider changing perk. I think you understand what i mean. (Its just like someone who whines about not being able to kill anything with his shotties due to the fact that he's playing on a highranged map and tries to shoot them at a great distance). Im not sure you agree with me but i think lvl6 should be playing on suicidal. Everyone isnt lvl6 and alot of people
And as for your first statement about the whimpy mp7 i can fully agree with you, it bloody sucks. And even if you use it right it Sucks at killing stuff. And if it's worse than the 9mm doesnt really matter its a question about balance. If it would be better i would have used it all the time. Just like you have to switch weapon from medsyringe you often have to do it with the mp7 aswell.
@-=AG=- Avery, ("For the Medics getting more money for heals why not? Other classes get to use weapons that have all these buffs then why can't the medic have a buff for what its job is?"): About the money I dont know how it works but the cash-span seems to be pretty wide, i get from 12-4/heal. And i find it enough to buy the equips for next wave. And then I might kill maybe ~10 zeds/wave and heal as much as possible.
Dont you consider the medicbuffs as buffs? The armor? Or the insane running speed. I mean if they encourage the medics do deal damage the old kitting will come back (thats what i think at least), ive already seen an increase of kitters due to the increased armor and running speed.
@9_6, ("Now while you reload, you can't do jack ****, not shooting healing darts, not even switching to something else.", "Understand the issue now?"): No i dont. Its the same with almost all other weaps. And i agree that its a problem that should be fixed. But until it is you cant just reload when you're out of bullets. If your friend needs help and you need to reload, dont press the R button, bring up the 9mm instead and shoot the crawler. I hope you understand that its the same with all guns, the only difference is that the mp7s spread is much higher than most of the guns. Maybe you should get a backup gun?
I think it's sad that everyone bashes the poor mp7 due to the fact that it isnt as good at killing zeds as the other guns. While its divine in healing. I almost always play like this: mp7+crossbow, mp7 for the crawlies that gets close (even though that almost never happen), and crossbow for killing sirens and husks for the people. But it's almost always useless to be medic while playing 2-3players.
Im sorry for the long post, hopefully there isnt to many typos and such.
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Nope overall good grammer. I see the point you make but not sure how you make money. I have a serious problem getting money in games and I leave my team the first round to go look for items.
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Good =) I can always afford medigun in second wave and often also crossbow, but that really depends on some things, like if i start with sharpy or medic. (lvl6 sharp, lvl5 medic). But later in the waves I never get any money problems due to the fact that i barely need to buy any ammo or new weapons =]
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The only flaw I truly see that I very much so want to be fixed is the ability to run and gun with it. I can kite any other enemy with any other weapon as a medic pretty much. All except for my primary weapon. That is just annoying because if he isn't meant for damage and has an insanely high run speed, why do I get my legs cut off whenever I use that gun?
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Well I don't know about you but if I want to get away real fast, I don't shoot anything, I grab the knife and get the hell away from whatever wants to eat my face off so I don't have the 'gun stops you from running' probs.
Besides the very concept of ironsights makes me think that the devs avtually wanted the players to stop or slow down to aim/shoot since this isn't counterstrike.
Yeah it is the same problem with every single gun, except guns that reload 1 bullet at a time like the LAR or shotguns BUT why would it have to be worst with the gun for the guy who is supposed to heal everyone?
And you say that so easily, just don't reload. You usually fire in short bursts with that thing and one tap with the mouse at the wrong time sends you reloading immediately.
And yes, I have a backup gun, if it's just 'weak' enemies and it has to go fast, I try to shoot them with my peashooter until there's way for a dart and then shoot one into the ally to save him.
I guess that's what you're supposed to do with this gun and this is why it shoots in the first place, right?
Actually speaking of that issue, I WISH you could only reload by pressing 'R' but that's another story with other threads about it.
Besides the very concept of ironsights makes me think that the devs avtually wanted the players to stop or slow down to aim/shoot since this isn't counterstrike.
Yeah it is the same problem with every single gun, except guns that reload 1 bullet at a time like the LAR or shotguns BUT why would it have to be worst with the gun for the guy who is supposed to heal everyone?
And you say that so easily, just don't reload. You usually fire in short bursts with that thing and one tap with the mouse at the wrong time sends you reloading immediately.
And yes, I have a backup gun, if it's just 'weak' enemies and it has to go fast, I try to shoot them with my peashooter until there's way for a dart and then shoot one into the ally to save him.
I guess that's what you're supposed to do with this gun and this is why it shoots in the first place, right?
Actually speaking of that issue, I WISH you could only reload by pressing 'R' but that's another story with other threads about it.
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Yeah, can totally see your point. And it is pretty vital that this doesn't happen due to the medguns long reload time (similar to AA12). But I still don't think the reload time should be decreased. I'd rather like to see some kind of "abort reload" option, or like you say not reload as soon as the clip (mag, or what ever it is) runs out. Or even better Both.
But the spread, recoil, low dmg is kinda good in my meaning. I think all medics should be really happy to be able to Shoot darts and not always have to run to the person who could be running in the same direction. I don't see it as much of a gun, rather a tool. I think it would be better suited at "tool-button" nr 5 in my case.
But the spread, recoil, low dmg is kinda good in my meaning. I think all medics should be really happy to be able to Shoot darts and not always have to run to the person who could be running in the same direction. I don't see it as much of a gun, rather a tool. I think it would be better suited at "tool-button" nr 5 in my case.
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i think a medic version of the bullpup would be more useful. overpowered tho maybe? i dont know....never use that gun or perk lol
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Can't remember offhand how quick it is, but what if the weapon swap animation to and from mp7m would be made very fast? Would make it easier to switch to a "run and gun" weapon and back to your healdarts then. That in combination with a fix to the auto-reload, perhaps?
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The medic is supposed to be a healing class to heal your teammates when they are about to die and nothing more but...
Mp7 is only good if you know how to use it, for example you can take off specimens heads with ease using the mp7
, i took off a fleshpounds head once, a few scrakes, and a bunch of other lower healthed specimens. (i did this all on hard lv 4 medic)
Mp7 is only good if you know how to use it, for example you can take off specimens heads with ease using the mp7
, i took off a fleshpounds head once, a few scrakes, and a bunch of other lower healthed specimens. (i did this all on hard lv 4 medic)
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Mp7 is only good if you know how to use it, for example you can take off specimens heads with ease using the mp7
Ohh are you one of those experts who think it is a good idea to shoot that scrake with your peashooter while other people with only 30% health left are bleeding to death right next to you?
I've had 3 of those experts in my teams in the last week and I hope you catch on fire while 2 horny fleshpounds gently caress you with all of their 3 meat grinder limbs!
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