Let's talk Berserker

[Skunkee]

If you could change ONE thing about the game to make playing a Berserker more enjoyable, what would it be?
Variate the weapons. Give them unique reasons for existing, and allowing the berserker to choose the one that best suits his role, as well as his need to mutilate. I think introducing a shield would give relevance to machete and axe, and a considerable boost in power to chainsaw and katana would make these weapons worth using again. Also, I believe that, as the berserker is designed to go toe to toe with every zed, I think he should be designed in a way so that he can ACTUALLY DO THAT. Berserkers can't take Fleshpounds anymore. They die just as quick as anyone else, and unlike others, they have to be up in his face to take him on. To add insult to injury, the Berserker can't even outrun FP. Berserker shouldn't need to run in the first place. By his very nature he should charge directly for the FP and unleash his blind fury. Please make it so.

I agree with this quite a bit. I think that if the current melee weapons had a purpose other than "holdover until you can afford a katana", the Berserker would have a better purpose again.

In regards to some of the complaints I'm seeing about the katana: I the removal of the auto attack was actually a good move on TWI's part. Effective katana usage requires you to pick your slashes anyway, and the damage of the weapon has not really changed at all. It's still just as effective as it was pre-patch, you just can't W+M1 anymore. On the plus side, it encourages you to use your power strikes a bit more instead of just holding Mouse 1 in front of a scrake.

 

[brick_top1982]

I've toying around with the zerker, the two weapons that worked wonders with the zekrer before the patch, (katana, crossbow,) is even better now.

Katana:for Clots, gored fast, stalkers, Scrakes,
9mm: DAMN BUGS, bloats
Xbow: Sirens, Husk, Fleshpounds

I never had a problem with the auto swing before, since I always clicked so I can time my swings properly.

 

[Skunkee]

Not so stealth bump.

Need more input from more people. Please don't let this turn into a trolls trolling trolls festival.

 

[Lukkas]

In regards to some of the complaints I'm seeing about the katana: I the removal of the auto attack was actually a good move on TWI's part. Effective katana usage requires you to pick your slashes anyway, and the damage of the weapon has not really changed at all. It's still just as effective as it was pre-patch, you just can't W+M1 anymore. On the plus side, it encourages you to use your power strikes a bit more instead of just holding Mouse 1 in front of a scrake.

I like the click-per-swing on the katana as well. I actually prefer the katana now to when it was originally added. I still wish I had the choice of going with another melee weapon though.

It really would be interesting if different weapons had different functions, though. The Berserker could carry both the katana and the chainsaw, and use whichever one is more appropriate for the situation. Same with Fireaxe and machete. I believe chainsaw limits you to just one extra melee weapon, but still. The variety would be excellent if the other weapons served a purpose.

 

[Skunkee]

I like the click-per-swing on the katana as well. I actually prefer the katana now to when it was originally added. I still wish I had the choice of going with another melee weapon though.

It really would be interesting if different weapons had different functions, though. The Berserker could carry both the katana and the chainsaw, and use whichever one is more appropriate for the situation. Same with Fireaxe and machete. I believe chainsaw limits you to just one extra melee weapon, but still. The variety would be excellent if the other weapons served a purpose.

I've been saying this for months. Let me quote something I just wrote in my tactics guide in response to one of Nanostrike's posts.

Berserker is a bit of a dark horse when it comes to balancing out the perk in the sense that your weapon never runs out of ammo and most Berserkers find a weapon they like and stick with it. That's why I'm in favor of giving each weapon besides the Knife and Katana some type of bonus ability that might encourage you to use them instead of the aforementioned 2. It wouldn't require any man hours spent on developing and modeling new weapons, and the old weapons could just be re-coded to have various effects such as stuns/bleeds/cleaves.

 

[Lukkas]

I agree completely. Different swings for different situations. Used to, it was just "which do you like better?" and Berserkers just chose the melee they thought was most fun to them.

Now it's "Use the katana or you're going to fukken die."

I think both of these situations are bad. There should be situations where each weapon shines brighter than the others. Fireaxe could be cheap, slow swing but high damage. Great for taking out single, high resistance foes, or it could allow for a "bleeding" sort of condition from leaving a gaping wound. It could be kind of like Firebug damage over time.

Perhaps Katana could be very useful against fleshy enemies like clots, gorefasts, sirens, crawlers, and bloats, but more lack-luster against Husks, Scrakes and Fleshpounds. Perhaps it could even decap/dismember multiple small creatures at a time, and not reduce your speed.

Chainsaw could be very high dps, but purely single target, for taking out large, difficult foes. It could have a very powerful stun, not completely disorienting the zed, but maybe slowing them down or reducing their damage. That way the Berserker actually could go toe to toe with a Fleshpound, and while still dangerous, he's capable of subduing the beast and protecting his party while contributing very respectable damage to the FP.

It's hard to think of machete's place, but I think it should have knockback. My reasoning for this is, machetes are more blunt than katanas, and so a great deal of the force put behind the blow is translated as a bludgeon rather than a clean cut through flesh and bone. So katana would be the "effortless decapitation" weapon, while machete would deal perhaps less damage, but give a knockback effect, perhaps even a stun.

I don't know, just a few ideas. The point is, all the melee weapons should have some sort of useful trait, and the Berserker should have use for more than just one of them. I also think that, while the game is tending towards a "Tiers of weapons" format, I think that's kind of weak. I'd prefer if virtually all weapons have something about them that makes them shine. Not just "AK47... eh, it's cheaper than the SCAR."

 

[9_6]

Yeah.
The bullpup, shotty, handcannon etc all still have an use for their perks even if they already have the 'stronger versions' of their class weapons while the berserker only really has in every single way better versions of his weapon.
No reason to use the ax if you have a katana.

I'd make the axe more powerful than the katana since it already is painfully slow so it's a real hard hitter that requires spot on timing (also maybe let it destroy doors in 1 hit so you can flee quickly if **** hits the fan without wasting grenades and having to keep your distance while waiting 3 seconds), leave the katana as it is (minus clickspam), maybe make it a tad less damaging but leave it effective against clots, gorefasts and scrakes on suicidal, de-nerf the chainsaw, maybe make it even stronger and more expensive and give it an attack that hits multiple targets with a slow swing (that weapon is meant for mowing through masses. At least in a zombie-type setting and you move as slow as if you're holding a gun with it anyway) and the machete..... remove that crap thing from the game already, noone uses it anyway and it just takes up space in the trader inventory.

Also leave the price of the axe as it is, raise the katanas by 500 and the chainsaws by 1000 and let a lv5 spawn with an axe, lv6 katana so at least nothing slows you down unless you buy it.

So there are 3 weapons each having their own playstyle and advantage and it's reasonable to use anything but the katana again.

 

[Nanostrike]

Not so stealth bump.

Need more input from more people. Please don't let this turn into a trolls trolling trolls festival.

My topic about this got trolled to oblivion...

I STILL hate the lack of autoswing on just the Katana. Why on just the Katana? I don't mind it for groups. Timing swings to take out Gorefasts without getting hit is satisfying. But against Scrakes in particular, it seems very tedious and arbitrary to be stuck mashing the fire button...

I think a fix for it would be to make the fast, primary swings non-auto, but let the slower, more powerful swings be automatic. That way when you're having to slice through a mob, you have to time the quick swings because the slower autoswings would get you killed, but against Scrakes, you can hold down the secondary button after you've stunned them to finish them off easily without the button-mashing!

 

[Skunkee]

My topic about this got trolled to oblivion...

I STILL hate the lack of autoswing on just the Katana. Why on just the Katana? I don't mind it for groups. Timing swings to take out Gorefasts without getting hit is satisfying. But against Scrakes in particular, it seems very tedious and arbitrary to be stuck mashing the fire button...

I think a fix for it would be to make the fast, primary swings non-auto, but let the slower, more powerful swings be automatic. That way when you're having to slice through a mob, you have to time the quick swings because the slower autoswings would get you killed, but against Scrakes, you can hold down the secondary button after you've stunned them to finish them off easily without the button-mashing!

A topic only gets trolled if you take the bait.

As for the lack of autoswing on the katana:

Almost all the berserks I see when they get in a group aren't timing swings one bit. They're just mashing Mouse 1 as fast as possible... I know it was SUPPOSED to make you time the swings, but it really doesn't make you have to one bit if you can spam click.

And if you can setup an autofire key, you can have it just like it used to be...

If you know how to set up an autofire key, which I'm guessing you do since you're the one who made this post, there's really no reason to complain about the Katana. The Katana is 100% fine in this update and I've topped many a Long Hard/Suicidal scoreboard since the update with it. All the other Berserker weapons are complaint-worthy, however, and I don't think TWI devs can even dispute this. Nobody uses anything but the katana nowadays if they want to survive past wave 7.

 

[BEEEEEES]

Man, last night I was going through a long hard (yes, only hard) game in Foundry with a solid team...with the chainsaw. I felt useless the entire time. Almost nothing ever got to us thanks to demo and sharpshooters, and when a Fleshpound finally made it to us with a few sirens behind it, I was facemelted in seconds flat, the team was overrun, and we lost the game.

I just...I hate this perk now. Even as a rank 6!!! on hard!!! I basically was not able to contribute anything to the team besides extra cash I made, voice communication and welding doors.

Even playing a bit recklessly in earlier waves before we were overrun, it's like every 2 f-ing seconds a siren would show up. I frickin swear it was like every other group of zeds that came had a siren in it, and between the screams, crawlers, and the bs auto-damaging-without-an-attack-animation, uninterruptable zeds, it was not possible to keep damage taken to a manageable level. Just, auuugh, DO SOMETHING TWI. This is crazy.

Did berserkers honestly seem too powerful compared to the other perks? Everyone dishes out loads more damage than me, from a safer distance- and for the crowd control perks/weapons, to a whole crowd of stuff at the same time.

Yea! ...but I'm... 25%... tougher... :'( That's dumb, guys. All that 25% does is help- a little- with the increased damage you're going to be taking as a berserker- because you're going to get hurt. It doesn't really increase your staying power beyond that of other perks- it just puts a piece of paper between you and the extra damage you'll be taking simply from being so close.

 

[TrOOper]

i like the idea of making the axe the hardest hitter with the alt attack being an overhead slam. This would be able to take out a fleshpound in one of two strokes of hit properly...as a berserker, having the use of the axe for the heavies and the katana for the others makes a lot of sense....I dont really mind the click attack at all.......

 

[meepmeep]

ok this might sound stupid

ok this might sound stupid

i happen to think that if the chainsaw should be increased in damaged and how far it can reach, I just noticed that this while trying to deal with some colt that the chainsaw was having a hard time dealing with what seemed to be a simple onslaught of colt or the other increase should be how quickly the damage is dealt. I just feel that when I have a chainsaw I shouldn't have to worry about taking any damage from a single clawer, I mean scissors beats paper right.

 

[Skunkee]

I like all the feedback I'm reading here guys, but if you have time could you please fill out the questionnaire as well? Even if your opinion coincides with someone else's on the question, it helps tally how many people feel the same about specific aspects of the weapons/perks.

 

[Brutal Concept]

• Since the "Level Up" content patch, what is the biggest problem you currently have with the Berserker perk?

Late wave functionality. The first seven or eight waves I do more than fine, hell, I typically have more kills and fewer deaths than most of my team mates when I can afford to go off and fight. Having to hang out in doorways for suicidal matches is a little less fun, but I manage alright, assuming there's a commando or something who knows to keep the trash off of me that is.

• What do you view as the Berserker's biggest Strength?

Fast moving, hard hitting face eater. If you are good with the perk you can end most things in a strike or two, and anything you can't you should be able to stun.

• What do you view as the Berserker's biggest Weakness?

Lack of a t3 weapon, leading to you being useless in late game.

• What situations do you find yourself using the following weapons?
  - Knife?

On and off for the first wave, useful for smiting clots and what not.

- Machete?
​

When I find one I will take it over the chainsaw.

- Fire Axe?
​

When I find one I will take it over the chainsaw.
​

- Chainsaw?
​

Wave one on and off, I use the alternate fire to take care of bloats sometimes, but usually I stick to the knife.

- Katana?
​

As soon as I can get my hands on it. Usually I pair it with a bullpup for taking out crawler storms.
​

• What specimens do you find you have the most trouble killing?

Crawlers.

• What specimens do you find you have the least trouble killing?

Clots, Gorefasts, Skrakes, Bloats, Stalkers. A lot of people don't get why I say Bloats, but one alt fire to the head and they're toast. If you rush in you can pop them without getting puked on, and if you dont have a swarm of hate to back up into (or run forward into if you time it just so) you wont get caught by the explosion. With a little bit of skill, and a berserker mentality they don't pose a threat. Mind you, if you do get puked you'll take all of ten bloody damage, so who's worried?

• What would you say the Berserker's role is in the team aspect of the game?

Breaking face, keeping others from getting face broken (untill they can afford t3 weapons).

• If you could change ONE thing about the game to make playing a Berserker more enjoyable, what would it be?

T3 weapon. I am NOT on the riot shield bandwagon. I honestly think thats bloody ridiculous.I'm in favor of some more melee mashing monstrosities. Me and the boys where discussing what would make a cool new weapon for my class, being that they're a medic and a sharp shooter and allready have their toys, and here's what we (by which I mean I) came up with:

Spiked Gauntlets: faster than your combat knife, about as damaging as the axe, maybe a touch more depending on the speed. Ridiculous? Yes, but it would be fun (read: awesome), and functional I think.

Lochaber axe: Probably my favorite weapon of all time, even if it was only modestly functional in the wars of its period. Here's a picture of one if you don't know:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:J_M_Briscoe15_09_2007-19_46_33-01910_1_lochaber_axe.jpg[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:J_M_Briscoe15_09_2007-19_46_33-01910_1_lochaber_axe.jpg[/URL]
Maybe give alt-fire a sweeping attack that could damage multiple zeds in a cone.

Sledge Hammer: Preeeetty self explanitory. A small cone on alt fire would work nicely for this guy too, I think.

Mind you I love this game, I love being a berserker, and I don't intend on switching out any time soon. For me it's about getting to go badsh*t crazy and wreck up the place, and if that means I don't get a shiney new gun I'm pretty ok with that. Still, Lochaber Axe guys, tell me that wouldn't be sweet.

 

[Canopizus]

• Since the "Level Up" content patch, what is the biggest problem you currently have with the Berserker perk?

I started playing with the level up patch so I can't say before, but now it's just being useful late game.

• What do you view as the Berserker's biggest Strength?

Mobility and lack of need to maintain. I find myself in the late waves handing money off to other players because I have my armor, katana, and backup pistols by then.

• What do you view as the Berserker's biggest Weakness?

Lack of ability to deal with crowds and the fact that several specimens will hurt a berserker far too much considering how packed the waves are.

• What situations do you find yourself using the following weapons?

- Knife?
I'm only a level 3 on my way to level 4 so I use this for the first and usually second waves. It even cuts the mustard on suicidal.
- Machete?
Never use it unless I find it.
- Fire Axe?
Same as machete.
- Chainsaw
At first I thought "Hell yeah a chainsaw" but that subsided after I started using the...
- Katana?
I try to buy this by round 2 and can use this all the way up until the end. The best weapon the berserker has by far

• What specimens do you find you have the most trouble killing?

Crawlers, Sirens, Fleshpounds. For me the Bloat still hurts too much to really run up and melee but I know in a few levels that won't be the case.

• What specimens do you find you have the least trouble killing?

Clots, Gorefasts, Scrakes. As long as the rest of the team can keep every other specimen from hitting me..I'm amazed at how well the Berserker handles the Scrake. Husks aren't even that bad once you figure out how they aim.

• What would you say the Berserker's role is in the team aspect of the game?

To me it seems like the Berserker is great in a choke, great at taking back a collapsed front line, and always having a surplus of money to give to the rest of the team so they can buy their weapons that make the Berserker obsolete.

• If you could change ONE thing about the game to make playing a Berserker more enjoyable, what would it be?

Give him more survivability or the ability to deal with big crowds. It sucks being right on the front lines in the middle of everything and dying just because your backup has to reload. I think a berserker should be able to fight his way out. Maybe increase his speed even further as his health gets lower?

 

[BEEEEEES]

I think a berserker should be able to fight his way out. Maybe increase his speed even further as his health gets lower?

Well...being able to run with the best of cowards doesn't sound very appealing to me. It also wouldn't help were you surrounded, as is a constant danger with groups. The benefit would also be negligible in tight spaces (most maps). On top of all that, your place is in melee, so the primary purpose of any movement speed increase is getting you into melee, but without hefty damage resistance, damage output, or crowd control, you're likely to regret going there with low health where you'd be getting the proposed speed increase.

However, having increased benefits for getting low on health or some other variable is an intriguing idea.

I personally declare that the following is rated E, for epic:

Once per second, whenever you land a melee strike or take damage, you gain a culmulative +X% melee damage bonus, +Y% damage resistance bonus, and +Z% melee movement speed for T seconds.
​

OOOoooo...that sounds really like a berserker to me. The more you chop 'em down or get hit, the more ferocious you become...at least until the adrenaline wears off.

 

[robdude19]

I also posted an idea about buffing zerk speed when his health is low:

----

Berserker
0 N/A
1 20% less movement penalty
2 40% less movement penalty
3 60% less movement penalty
4 80% less movement penalty
5 No movement penalty
6 No movement penalty + 10% melee movement + 10% damage resistance at 50% health

This would let the zerk push deeper into enemy territory where he'll be useful again, and better able to survive a beating, without becoming superman. Zerks would be encouraged to push forward and take hits since they'll be faster and more resilient when their health is at 50% or less, although if they're too reckless they'll soon be at 0%. Balancing this aspect would be a skill in itself for high-level players.

----

Adding a modest damage increase after kills would also be interesting but not too useful, since a high level zerk kills most stuff in one katana swing anyway. A faster attack speed would be more useful.

Also, for a new tier 3 zerk melee weapon, it should be a badass medeival axe:
[url]http://www.tdr09.com/khxc/media/ccp0/prodsm/25-2439.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/axe-medieval-8651/axe-medieval-8651.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://www.swordsandarmor.com/images/AX882433_Executioners_Axe.jpg[/URL]

Either one with a spike on one end for an alt-fire high-damage overhead smash (good for scrakes and fps) or have a double-crescent executioner style axe that slashes multiple enemies swinging back and forth. Any expensive zerk weapon would have to hit multiple enemies for each swing, since that's his biggest drawback.

 

[BEEEEEES]

I do not support any benefit that only kicks in when you're about dead anyways. +10% resist and moving only as fast as you normally do isn't going to save the day.

On top of that, it does almost nothing to address the berserker's lack of staying power in melee- where it has to be in order to do its job.

 

[Entangler]

Let's see...

• Since the "Level Up" content patch, what is the biggest problem you currently have with the Berserker perk?

Job security. Pre-patch, I was the front-line Chainsaw-wielding blade barrier and Flesh Pound head collector. Between the Chainsaw nerf and the removal of Flesh Pound melee decapitations, that role no longer exists. Sure, there's still the Katana playstyle, and that can be fun for a while, but on Suicidal, there's not much point from a tactical perspective; it works, yes, but the alternatives are better, hence why I've grudgingly switched to the "Berserker 2.0" Crossbow + Dual Handcannons Sharpshooter, which I honestly just don't find very entertaining.

• What do you view as the Berserker's biggest Strength?

Tanking (somewhat) and ammo conservation. It depends on the type of Berserker you're playing, though (more on that later, as this post will be long enough without).

• What do you view as the Berserker's biggest Weakness?

Pre-patch, it was the threat of being ambushed, but that was a legitimate part of the Berserker's game; situational awareness was the main skill that a Berserker needed to excel in his field. Nowadays, though, it doesn't even last that long for most Berserker playstyles, because the specimens in your face are threatening enough, what with their amazing ability to retaliate immediately after (or even during) powerful attacks (without even showing it). This isn't as much of a problem with the Katana as it would be with the other weapons (but who uses the other melee weapons any more?), but it's still problematic. The animation desync bug definitely needs to go.

• What situations do you find yourself using the following weapons?
  • Knife?

Wave 1, because, pathetically enough, it's actually better than the Chainsaw. It's occasionally useful for the other perks too, if for example they need to get out of a tight spot but all their guns need reloading. Switching between this and the Chainsaw was commonplace pre-patch, so that the Chainsaw-wielding Berserker could get from one danger zone to the next, or in front of a dying teammate, or in the Siren or Flesh Pound's face as quickly as possible - but of course, that's all history now. (I'm guessing that the general use of the movement speed bonus for all perks goes without saying here.)

• Machete?

Never, unless I find one in the first wave (which of course I promptly sell). The Machete has always been a joke... but then again, how much can you honestly expect from a tier 0.5 melee weapon? I don't think that there possibly can be a role for it...

• Fire Axe?

Same as the Machete, mostly; I know other people sometimes carry one for stunning Scrakes and such, but as a Chainsaw user by preference, I obviously didn't need it, and even now, I don't really see the appeal. Unlike the Machete, the Fire Axe does actually have a place in the game, but that place has never been in my hands... except perhaps for some cheap laughs while farming heals off newbies to level my Field Medic.

• Chainsaw?

Once upon a time, it was my main weapon. In this brave new world, I only keep it for as long as it takes to pawn it off.

• Katana?

On the rare occasion that I still play Berserker, this one is my new main. Don't get me wrong, I do like the Katana, but I much preferred the old Chainsaw.

• What specimens do you find you have the most trouble killing?

The Patriach pretty much goes without saying. The Flesh Pound is a new and unwelcome addition to the list. Crawlers can be a pain in the arse, too, because (though this just be a product of going on hiatus for a long time until the patch came out, then not playing Berserker much since) their reach seems to have extended slightly, so my timing for the evasive manoeuvres is a bit off. (Oh, and getting stuck bouncing on them - and especially from them to anything else, like, say, a Scrake - is a death sentence. Can that be removed?)

• What specimens do you find you have the least trouble killing?

Clots and Stalkers, obviously. Gorefasts' new invisible retaliation is annoying, but despite that, they still get an honourable mention.

• What would you say the Berserker's role is in the team aspect of the game?

Baiting and body-blocking all horribly disfigured creatures, great and small. Plowing his way through a crowd to come to a teammate's rescue or make a quick getaway. I'm partial to the occasional assassination, too.

• If you could change ONE thing about the game to make playing a Berserker more enjoyable, what would it be?

Give me my powerful Chainsaw back, FP decaps and all.

 

[Skunkee]

Good replies. Keep it up, and try to give as much input as you can.