Beta Map Project Aretha (working name)

[[TW]DrGuppy]

...about the packages, if we added everything to MyLevel, how would you go about using our custom content? We chose to do it in real packages so that others can use our content for their own maps at the end of the day.

Using myLevel still allows other mappers to use your content. They just have to open up your map in the editor once, and then return to their map. All of the textures / statics will now show up in their myLevel package and anything that they place into their map and save will remain there.

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

Ok everyone needs to calm down in this thread. I'll make a few points here right off the bat:

Fel - You need to calm down. If you want to give this mapper some constructive criticism, fine. But don't flame, or my ban finger will start to get itchy.

Gusone - "Look at Waterworks

 

[gusone]

Can I ask a serious question? Are we doing Stonehenge tonight?

 

[Zerreth]

Now, the deatil is AMAZING you can definetly tell they know their way around the editor, but since this is their 1st map for KF, they dont really know how to place spawns. This makes the gameplay/action Dull.

Strange, the feedback we've been given by testers seems to TOTALLY contradict your statement...

i just want to play it, never said anything about wanting to beta test it.

http://connectennex.com/users/zerreth/temp/departed_small.jpg

when you post that along with a msg reading, "hey you guys arnt going to be able to play this map that is so awesome that we even made a pseudo L4D poster for it, its going straight to TWI because its that top secret and important", you cant help but ask, "why?"

proj aretha looks great, its not over the top original, but its way ahead of its time as far as KF maps in general go. im sure theres a few TWI employees and even Valve employees who would be jealous. but whats the sense in being so secretive about it? straight answer please guys.

"Next release: KF_Departed -> won't see release here, but will be directly sent to tripwire."

whats the deal with that??? sounds elitist as all hell . we all know you guys are going to win the big bucks, no need to put on this big charade, telling us your map is so great youre sending it directly to twi just so that us lowly undeserving souls will never see its unbelievable awesomeness.

were a community, no need for pretentiousness.

You've been playing KF_Departed (Project_Aretha) the whole time...
We're just gonna finish up the content and fix any remaining bugs and exploits that are still in there. So basically it BETA4 but without the unfinished texture here and there.

But no worries, KF_Departed will be released (tomorrow) in the Final Realease thread.
Nothing secrative about that. I've still got some tricks left, you'll see...

Ill just go ahead and say what alot of us are thinking....

yes that is a little selffish as well. Like you guys are SOOOOOO good. dont be a prick and let us all play your map instead of being a big head. all you guys do is HYPE HYPE HYPE...

Like its soo important that you have to hide it.

Just cause your map looks good, you dont need to be A-holes about it

Oh and BTW this isnt L4D... I love all the hype everything up like its SOOOO good, then at the last minuet. OH WE ARNT GONNA SHARE CAUSE WE ARE LOOSERS

Sir, is this L4D ?
No, it's not, private. It's Killing Floor! But that's still a mighty fine poster you made there.
I seem to miss the point where you actually make sense.

HAHAHAHA i thought you guys were good. dont even know how to do that. No one will want to add all those textures to there server like that.

You know what..because you guys are "pros"...im not gonna tell you how to do it either. and i usually would, but Nah.

You wont share your map...i wont share my knowledge

Wouldn't be suprised if you dont know about zoning and antiportals....all you guys are here for is the contest, then you are gonna leave, so whats the point.

And because of that you dont know how the Kf gameplay really works (through tons of Kf practice) so i bet as usuall, the graphics are gonna be amazing, but the gameplay is gonna....SUCK

You are starting to annoy me...
And again your arguments are ungrounded and laughable.

Speaking as a player and not mapper the more maps the merrier. And the better they look well that's even better. However I will always take game play over graphics. The competition is open to everyone and as I always say “there is always some one better than you”. Unfortunately when you attach a significant prize to these things it’s only going to rile the minority who feel they are having their nose rubbed in the dog’s dodo. If there was not a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow everyone would be saying “Hey guys, that’s looks great.”

That said I would also say that just because it looks great does not necessarily mean it should win. Longevity should be a factor.

Agreed, but unfortunately we are in a situation where it's not easy for a server host to run our map because of the massive amount of custom content. That's why we actually need a release through steam update (by winning) so that everyone has the content, so that this wouln't be a problem anymore.

But still, the BETA has given us a lot of feedback so we could tweak the gameplay and performance. And we feel that KF_Departed will be successful in delivering an interesting gameplay experience. I also feel that there is a need for a slightly harder map. When a player finds it is very easy to play through a certain map, he will get bored of it, because there is no challenge left.

Using myLevel still allows other mappers to use your content. They just have to open up your map in the editor once, and then return to their map. All of the textures / statics will now show up in their myLevel package and anything that they place into their map and save will remain there.

Thus creating duplicates, increasting the rom file size unnessarily. Also, loading in a package in much more convenient than loading in an entire map just to place some stuff...

Fantastic job guys. THe highest quality of work. Looking at what you have achieved on this map, shows me what I have to aspire to, in my own maps.

Uploading to the <AKA> server at the moment.... Will give this a good run through tonight.

THANK YOU

/EDIT
While I was writing the dear president took the time to maintain order in the sudden flame wars. Good to know at least TWI got out backs.

As for those who are willing to help us out in the final days : Hunt for every single bug you can find and give lot of gameplay feedback. (what did you like, what not, etc...)

 

[xyrz]

Played beta4 today and WOW.

There are alot of new areas in beta 4 (not actually areas but you will see it if you played the other versions)

I experienced some slowdowns here and there. Can you squeeze out a few more FPS' from this map?

Difficulty was reduced compared to beta3 but I think thats what you want.

I suggest making the fence blocking the docks area a bit bigger because it looks like I can still jump over that fence.

I'll try to look for more.

BTW

The "head" room is great! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Zerreth]

I experienced some slowdowns here and there. Can you squeeze out a few more FPS' from this map?

We do what we can

Difficulty was reduced compared to beta3 but I think thats what you want.

Yeah now we're preventing some zeds like fleshpounds from spawning on roofs and jumping onto the players

I suggest making the fence blocking the docks area a bit bigger because it looks like I can still jump over that fence.

Fixed.

 

[DamDam]

This thread is epic, I like that. \o/
So I just want to say that you make a map only to win the grindhouse contest, and that's not cool ...
No, I stop trolling, i'm joking.

More seriously, my first opinion about your map was like everybody : your map is visually amazing. I'm very impressed by the amount of new props. That's crazy. But there are a lot of thing to say.
You say you are open to criticism, so ok let's go. There are no offence, just my opinion. And I hope that will help you. (and sorry for my english)
I'll talk about 2 or 3 things like the originality of the background and the perf side (polycount and the memory usage).
First, the originality : when I see your map, I have the feeling to see again and again the same hallway, the same street, the same warehouse as in the current fashion game. It's looks like a L4D map, with the same picture (with the 4 characters and the title). Arf ok that's funny, but I prefer to see a map with less of new content but with more originality and idea.
That's really too bad because, you spent a lot of time to make a lot of new content. Why don't make something less "d

 

[Fel]

But there is a difference between hype and pretentiousness ...

Bref, you make a ****ing great map, but ihmo you still have some problem with perf and originality.

Oh man..i agree with you 100% its the same thing everywhere. Each area should be different,
1 so the player doesnt get lost. "wasnt i just here?" When he wasnt, but it looks the same.
2 the BORDOM factor. comeon with your talent you should put originality in every room. not just COPY PASTE COPY PASTE

You guys have to optomise more too. Not everyone has a bad *** comp (like me, my comps suxs) So you should design the map for EVERYONE to play not just people with high end comps. Once the zombies start coming my FPS drops down to below 9 when usually in other maps (ex Westlondon and others) its around 20fps. YOU MUST TURN OFF YOUR VIDEOCARD THEN TEST THE FPS. That way you know that everyone can play this. I cant even play this map, and im sure its the same for alot of other peole as well.

And also with the size of the map. whit so many textures...how many people do you think is gonna want to
1: sit and wait for the upload of 200+ megs to the server
2: sit and dl 200+ mgs. of content just to play a stupid map.

Just like degeneration and the Hive...its a great map, but no one plays it because its too big.

Did you compress your textures 1st? You NEED to do that and add them to MyLevel

Also ENOUGH with the hype already, you guys seem to have the biggest heads ever, like you think your gonna win already. EVERYONE has a chance of winning, so i would cool it before your heads explode. But with the looks of it, because your map lacks oringiality in all the areas/rooms AND the fps is HELLA low i doubt you are gonna win. so enough already... just map for fun. even though your probably never gonna map a kf map again your just doing it for the contest. Great commitment to the comunity. pfft

 

[The Wanderer]

Also ENOUGH with the hype already, you guys seem to have the biggest heads ever, like you think your gonna win already. EVERYONE has a chance of winning, so i would cool it before your heads explode. But with the looks of it, because your map lacks oringiality in all the areas/rooms AND the fps is HELLA low i doubt you are gonna win. so enough already... just map for fun. even though your probably never gonna map a kf map again your just doing it for the contest. Great commitment to the comunity. pfft

WHAT HYPE? Are me and Zerreth going on these boards and saying "this map is awesome, better than x and y!" no we are not... Zerreth made a poster, which i think is awesome btw, and posted it, what's the hype about that? It's actually content that is also ingame, so i see no harm in actually posting ingame content...
Regardless, getting your product sold is 50% creating, 50% advertisement. And i feel quite happy you think we are hyping this, means our content actually makes you feel hyped ^^

What a commitment to the community you have coming in here and flaming us because you ASSUME this is the only map we will make for Killing Floor. Even if it were, what kind of community representative are you flaming us? Also do you know my schedule? Know what i'm going to be doing? Because if you do, i'd like to know next weeks lottery numbers.

You're 2 points about boredom and everything looking the same, are we actually playing the same map? Because every area (5) have gotten completely different styles, landmark models, etc... To make it easier for new players to instantly recognize each area as an individually different zone. Each zone has several landmark models and additionally a different color correction as subtle as it may be or a different style of lighting.

Also, i do believe TWI will release some Wave contest maps to the general public trough an update, atleast that'd be awesome
So that people don't have to upload it trough the servers to play it.

Also Fel, i think Ramm-Jaeger already commented on the MyLevel thingy, so drop it, seriously...
Here's a small quote to the message at the top of this page:

Putting the textures/statics in a separate package was the RIGHT way to do it. In this way if the map ever was to go "official" (like we did with the best RO map contest maps) other mappers will be able to use the art assets in their maps without duplicating the assets in their mylevel package (and increasing their file size). Mylevel is ok if you just have a few custom assets, but with the amount of assets you guys have you did the right thing. So don't listen to these guys, you did the right thing, and it will be better for everyone in the long run.

And most of our textures are DXT1, that is the best compression method in unreal 2.5. (an 8:1 compression without alpha).

Hope that addresses some of your concerns.

- The Wanderer

 

[Zerreth]

YOU MUST TURN OFF YOUR VIDEOCARD THEN TEST THE FPS.

I lolled, HARD.

 

[KiCk3R]

Why do i have the slight feeling of selfish mappers who are VERY jealous of this map


I know i am

 

[dextronaut]

if you guys are going to listen to any of the many idiots here (myself included), listen to DamDam, theres a reason why he had a big advantage in wave 1 - he worked on video games for a living, so he knows what hes talking about ;-)

Why do i have the slight feeling of selfish mappers who are VERY jealous of this map I know i am

i am a little, but then you just have to stop and realize, "these guys took a class for it". theres always going to be the guy out there who either took classes on this stuff (zerreth, wanderer), or did this for a living (damdam), then there are those who are self taught (fel, me, theddle, etc). advantages, disadvantages, and pure luck, thats the flavor of today.

PS: for all the guys who are self taught, i hope youre feeling lucky on oct 2! youre going to need all the luck you can get! and if luck isnt enough to get you by, take this as a lesson - get off your butt, take classes on this, and work for a video game company, THEN you can be the one pwning noobs at mapping competitions.

 

[The Wanderer]

if you guys are going to listen to any of the many idiots here (myself included), listen to DamDam, theres a reason why he had a big advantage in wave 1 - he worked on video games for a living, so he knows what hes talking about ;-)

Don't worry, we listen to everyone regardless of background, as long as it's written in a more or less professional manner (if you get what i mean ^^ )

 

[KiCk3R]

I started mapping early 2007. When KF was in full swing as a mod.
I started to learn the editor in my own way. Just like i did with Worldcraft (Hammer to some) (and now the Source SDK to most )

Learning the Unreal Editor is not hard. It only takes about 2-3 days figuring out what all the buttons do. And learning the actor classes.

Remembering the stuff is the hard part.
I would say. From now... i have most likely remembered all the Actor classes in the editor and what they do.

But keeping to topic, I dont think it matters if youve been in the editor for 10 year down to 1 month. Its one of the most EASIEST editors i have ever come across.

It takes a true mapper to respect the unreal editor. And learn its ways. And once you have control over that... your power is epic

 

[The Wanderer]

Yea same here, Zerreth and I both had the knowledge to create a map from start to finish in Unreal 2 after several days.

 

[THEDDLE]

Hey

Hey

You guys keep this up your going to get your own map thread locked. LMAO. Calm down people. Gaming is supposed to be fun. Its a stress reliever for me. So calm down.

 

[The Wanderer]

You guys keep this up your going to get your own map thread locked. LMAO. Calm down people. Gaming is supposed to be fun. Its a stress reliever for me. So calm down.

Don't worry, i take everything good spirited, no need to worry about something as a forum debate, deadlines are enough worries as is ^^

And besides, i love creating maps and content, no reply in the world will change that

 

[shrinkshooter]

YOU MUST TURN OFF YOUR VIDEOCARD THEN TEST THE FPS.

That's like saying in order to see how fast you can go before you run a race, you need to saw off your own legs. Turning off your graphics card means nothing shows up on your screen. Fail.

Did you compress your textures 1st? You NEED to do that and add them to MyLevel

Unless they don't want to, in which case they can just have the textures in their mylevel package. They don't NEED to do it.

Also ENOUGH with the hype already, you guys seem to have the biggest heads ever

Irony at its finest. Nuff said.

But with the looks of it, because your map lacks oringiality in all the areas/rooms AND the fps is HELLA low i doubt you are gonna win. so enough already... just map for fun. even though your probably never gonna map a kf map again your just doing it for the contest. Great commitment to the comunity. pfft

1) I know what a good map is. They have one. Don't make me compare this thing to your work, because I could tear it apart SO easily. Your jealousy is blatantly obvious.

2) You're actually judging the people behind the map? Like, not even the map itself, you're actually judging these guys you've never met as fairweather contributors. It's not that this statement might not be true, it could be that you're right; but you don't go and say something like that about someone for certain when you know jack squat.

3) You know jack squat. Most of your posts are half BS that's untrue, and the other half are just you throwing out random things you know how to do (or think you know how to do) in unrealed in an attempt to make it look like you're some sort of experienced mapper, when it's quite clear to anyone reading your comments who DO know their way around the editor that you're just shooting your mouth off. Zones and antiportals? Really? Rookie mappers know how to use those.

Yeah, that's my spiel. I know you're going to come back at me with a grammatically murdered post full of immature insults, because that's just classic Fel. But I really don't care.

I apologize to the KF community for this btw, I just had to vent.

 

[[UIT] Akame]

Everyone is going crazy. Say what you want about the map (or anything else), not what others said wrong.

What I liked:

I was very surprised with this map after playing water works. The gameplay isn't especially noteworthy (though it is on par with most maps) but the visuals are very well done.

Easy to know where you are, despite having a big level. Zoning and other considerations are handled well (I could run show collisions while fighting zeds in the largest area on max settings and still get 30 fps, which is unusual for most maps).

The issues:

Blocking is done reasonably well, though there are sill tons of issues (will post as soon as I have a good list compiled and documented, hopefully tonight) that need attention.

Loading times for the map (even on my super fast rig) are abismally slow, 30 seconds versus most maps at 5-10.

File is HUGE. I have 256 dsl and it took me one hour to download this ONE map. Servers and whatnot. You already know this.

 

[Fel]

1) I know what a good map is. They have one. Don't make me compare this thing to your work, because I could tear it apart SO easily. Your jealousy is blatantly obvious.

please tell me what is wrong with my maps so i can fix it. Im not gonna get all defensive over it like most people when they get criticism.

Oh yea vent your anger on a forum....like it really means anything. This is a place to get our maps out,and to ask for help. not bicker

And most of the time all i do is help people.