That can be arranged Ricky, we realize that these packages are quite annoying to upload and we wouldn't like to scare away server hosts.
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Beta Map Project Aretha (working name)
- Thread starter Zerreth
- Start date
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The only problem i have with this map is the car that's steaming up. I have a good 30-40 fps throughout the map, but when i look at the car it drops to 10.
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im looking forward to ur updates but ur betas have poor optimization. I looked up with stat render to see how many triangles are being drawn. The max was over a million in one part. the most i have seen in tripwire maps are about 70,000. but 1,000,000 triangles are gonna make lotta servers lag mate. It would make sense if it had too many curved surfaces in an open environment, but look at the attached pics. I shouldnt be getting 200,000 plus triangles while looking into alleyways or some pillars. i suggest u put antiportals behind every wall in ur map.
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(dedicated) Servers don't render video. Complex scenes would not cause it to lag. Excess calculations, like hundreds of zeds active in the map at once may cause a server to lag. Lag/low fps caused by complex scenes is only going to occur if the scene is being rendered (clients, listen servers).
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Actually the zone in that area is broken, the correct amount for that view is around 80k - 100k triangles with the fixed zone, which is beta4
.Around the entire map it stays around 70.000 to 120.000 (long stretched street) triangles (without taking into account the broken zone).
Like zYnthetic said, staticmeshes won't cause server lag either seeing that the server doesn't render that, servers don't render anything graphical. The most it causes is client side fps drop and that doesn't apply to servers. You can run servers with a decent cpu and a 10 year old graphical card that doesn't even meet the minimum specs. Servers only do calculations, no rendering.
Also putting antiportals behind every wall is overkill, antiportals should be used sparingly, if you don't do so you are defeating the point of using them as they are costly to calculate. So i'd be creating lag instead of optimizing.
Also you're claiming you've had a million tris being drawn at one time? Not that i claim it's impossible, yet after many testings i have found no spot that rendered that many triangles at one time, i'd rather have it you supplied an image with the area in question.
Actually for that many triangles it would need to render almost the entire map at once. There is one area that renders quite a large amount of the map, but that's due to the broken zone i mentioned earlier, which again, has been fixed in the upcoming beta version.
I hope that addresses some of your concerns.
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Shouldn't the server calculate collisions though? I honestly don't know how it works, but it seems logical to assume that a huge number of triangles on StaticMeshes that use per-triangle-collision would bog a server down.
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Yes they are supposed to calculate collision, but seeing there are no physics involved (bullet shells just go trough the world and the bullet itself dissapears on collision, which looks awkward) and modern day cpus are well capable of easily handling the mundane task of collision detection.
It'd be a lot harder to calculate physics than the simple collision detection and cpu's meeting the minimum requirements can easily do that (not that i see anyone hosting a server with that).
Bullet detection is a ray, a straight line, the only thing it does is see if it hits anything on it's path, it shouldn't matter if it's a 100000 triangle model, nor a 8 triangle one as it only looks at the first face the line touches. Dynamic lighting is a larger resource hog than bullet detection seeing dynamic lighting shoots several rays out at once on multiple faces. This isn't a trigger light, trigger light just lights up an area and even though it is a resource hog, it doesn't check to see if the light hits a wall, so no collision, but trigger lights are done client side anyhow.
btw mean_Machine, the highest bottleneck is at the office, on the streets looking at the trainstation, but that is due to the zone being broken there. (and is rendering the entire street).
tl;dr
Vector collisions shouldn't cause any cpu to bottleneck seeing that is one of the most basics of calculations it has to do.
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installed beta 3 to give it a try. KF now no longer loads.
if i delete the aretha installed files KF boots fine. so i thought i'd try it again.
Oh my KF won't boot again. tried verifying integrity / defragging / rebooting.
it just wont load up with your map files installed. Didn't even know such a thing was possible but there you go
if i delete the aretha installed files KF boots fine. so i thought i'd try it again.
Oh my KF won't boot again. tried verifying integrity / defragging / rebooting.
it just wont load up with your map files installed. Didn't even know such a thing was possible but there you go
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avp2501, that's very weird seeing that none of the map files are being loaded on the startup of killing floor (such a system would also be overkill when a lot of custom maps are present).
It only begins to load the map files when you start/join a server with the map in question. So as long as you're not doing that, none of the files are being touched by the engine, atleast it shouldn't.
Not that i claim it isn't possible that if the map is installed KF no longer boots, but there must be an underlying problem not related to the map that is the culprit.
Could you narrow it down to the file causing the problem if you have the time and perhaps also take it up with the TWI Technical Support team?
It only begins to load the map files when you start/join a server with the map in question. So as long as you're not doing that, none of the files are being touched by the engine, atleast it shouldn't.
Not that i claim it isn't possible that if the map is installed KF no longer boots, but there must be an underlying problem not related to the map that is the culprit.
Could you narrow it down to the file causing the problem if you have the time and perhaps also take it up with the TWI Technical Support team?
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i run a amd athlon 64 processor 3800+ 241 ghz,
win xp service pack 3
2.00 gb ram (dont know the speed)
graphik radeon x800xt (ram onboard unknown)
nealry all other maps run very smooth (stockmaps, waterwork). dont know the exact fps but since its fine for me i dont care. i have trouble with abandon base, trail of the woods, corner market v3.
i think the problem are the whooping 171 mb textures. my assumption is my ram on the graca is not enough and to slow. this means ur map wont fit in the ram in one piece and so the happy load - unload party begins.
i bet if u texture ur map with retail tex from killingfloor, wich is of course not an option, the frame issues are gone.
based on these assumptions i reduced the resolution and the changed from 32 to 16 bit and got some good results. sadly not enough by far.
this is pain to me cause its pure teasing to me.
i love ur map and like to play it
keep up the good work
win xp service pack 3
2.00 gb ram (dont know the speed)
graphik radeon x800xt (ram onboard unknown)
nealry all other maps run very smooth (stockmaps, waterwork). dont know the exact fps but since its fine for me i dont care. i have trouble with abandon base, trail of the woods, corner market v3.
i think the problem are the whooping 171 mb textures. my assumption is my ram on the graca is not enough and to slow. this means ur map wont fit in the ram in one piece and so the happy load - unload party begins.
i bet if u texture ur map with retail tex from killingfloor, wich is of course not an option, the frame issues are gone.
based on these assumptions i reduced the resolution and the changed from 32 to 16 bit and got some good results. sadly not enough by far.
this is pain to me cause its pure teasing to me.
i love ur map and like to play it
keep up the good work
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Man i hope with all the unnecessary hype you guys put out, i hope the gameplay is good, most mappers who are maping for the contest, its their 1st kf map, so they dont know how the gameplay works...
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Hype? Well we are enthousiastic about releasing this map (who wouldn't be as a level designer), but aside from announcing when we are going to release the next update we aren't saying it is the next best thing since sliced bread
And there is only one way to find out if the gameplay suits you or not, the map is just a click away (or you can wait till the next update comes, which is in the next hour).
Good ol' sliced bread...
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