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Fire Axe has become lackluster

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#21
SiLkY WilKY said:
A.o.e Swing and able to knock down barricades, WE have a winner!
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Considering that, in most cases, welded doors HELP humans more than specimens, I'd say that a door-shattering axe is actually more of a prime tool for griefing than a tool to prevent it...

And in addition to AoE effect (Light damage for everything but a dead-on hit with this addition, of course!), knock back things that are hit by the area-effect slightly.

If given this, it'd need a price increase too, IMO, but wouldn't be "The poor-man's Katana". Even with buffs, it's still so far outshined by the Katana, though, that you'd probably STILL seldom see it used.

I'd really like to see it made slower, but have DEVASTATING damage, so we don't have another 'Swing as fast as you can until everything dies' type of weapon.

*Sigh* I remember absolutely LOVING the Fire Axe when Killing Floor Retail was first released. I daresay it helped me learn the ropes of Berserking more than the Chainsaw did, with the movment, timing of attacks, and picking of targets. Now it almost seems like a forgotten weapon. No such nostalgia for the Machete, though! In my eyes, it was always a crap weapon for 1-shotting clots and nothing more!
 
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#26
So far out of all the ideas posted, I like the sweeping AOE damage. I think a frontal arc attack would be fantastic with the primary fire. Say that it would do 100% of it's damage to the primary target, and for each target after the first it would do 20% less, and so on.

Example:
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2 Z
3
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The Z represents the Berserker with the Axe, and the numbers represent 3 clots. The Fire axe primary fire now swings in a 120 degree arc or so in front of the zerker. Clot 1 would take 100% of the swing damage and burst into pieces like they normally do upon death. Clot 2 would take 80% of the damage that Clot 1 takes throughout the swing. This would probably be enough to kill it. Clot 3 takes 60% of the damage of the first swing (just step the damage down by 20% for each specimen). This isn't enough to kill it, and it gets staggered/stunned.

1
2 Z
3​

The first 2 clots die and the 3rd one is injured. Probably not the best idea, but I think it would give the Axe a solid Niche not filled by the other weapons. Keep alt fire the same, but maybe buff the damage a bit. A hefty axe swinging downward on a head would be more damaging than a swing from a katana, but the rate of fire would be too slow to justify using it over the katana for most situations. Price doubles to 300 quid. This might also let the Machete see more use since not everyone could afford the Axe early.

I also like the idea about door busting properties, but I too can see where this would be a griefing tool. It has the potential to be useful, but as someone already stated; a grenade can do the same thing. No need to add a feature to a weapon that is already filled by another weapon that everyone has access to (plus every stat they tack onto it either increases the price or lowers another stat).

What about severing limbs? I've seen fleshpounds get their arms blown off from time to time and still run around. Could the Axe maybe have a chance of severing a limb when it hits specific points on the enemy models (Like major joints such as the base of the skull meeting the neck, the elbows, and the knees)? This would probably be instant death for most weak specimens. But then again, what isn't instant death to them in a rank 5 berserker's hands?
 
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#27
^ This is a good idea. Maybe with some knockback so clot 3 goes flying back a bit, it would definitely be more attractive than it is now. About removing limbs, my katana takes off arms and legs all the time, but I always assumed it to be a death animation because it only happens when clots/gorefasts/crawlers/stalkers die... of course they always die after 1 hit so... I've seen fleshpounds with one leg and one arm, but they only seem to come off after the head does (and only then after mass nading) so it's mostly pointless.
 
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#28
Or you can just add secondary attack function to the axe that allows you to jab the axe tip at the enemy to stun them a bit or push them back. This can be used to maybe budge the door open little by little. I don't like the idea of buffing 1 weapon so much. 4 guys in a circle formation would basically be invincible with the AoE damage with 2 sharpshooter in the middle.
 
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#29
Nazarov said:
Or you can just add secondary attack function to the axe that allows you to jab the axe tip at the enemy to stun them a bit or push them back. This can be used to maybe budge the door open little by little. I don't like the idea of buffing 1 weapon so much. 4 guys in a circle formation would basically be invincible with the AoE damage with 2 sharpshooter in the middle.
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The axe already has a secondary attack function. Middle mouse makes it do an overhead swing that hits really hard. I also assure you that very few teams would be coordinated enough to pull off that formation, not to mention the only official map that would allow it would be Farm. And even then, surprise Sirens would wreck them hard. As would rage mode Fleshpounds. I also think you're overestimating how fast the axe swing speed really is. You could do those sweeping attacks, yeah. However, if there's a gorefast charging you that was out of range of the swing you just did...enjoy that 30 damage to the face.
 
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#30
I wouldn't know...I always shied away from Axes. lol
I don't know how exactly that format would pan out now I know more details, but I still think it can still be a solid format.
I thought gorefest comes right up to your face before swinging away...?
I was thinking more of the Westlondon level where there's the long stretch of street. You would see sirens come from either way with sharpshooters aiming down.
 
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#31
Well, that swing could easily have a huge cooldown or something to balance it out.

The point is to try and differentiate the melee weapons a bit rather than make them work in this "I buy it axe/machete, then I replace them with katana/chainsaw" way.And that is only if you don't have zerker lvl 5 already, which makes machete/axe obsolete.
 
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#32
Kabelis said:
Well, that swing could easily have a huge cooldown or something to balance it out.

The point is to try and differentiate the melee weapons a bit rather than make them work in this "I buy it axe/machete, then I replace them with katana/chainsaw" way.And that is only if you don't have zerker lvl 5 already, which makes machete/axe obsolete.
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This. I think it would be awesome to see each melee weapon fall into it's own niche (kind of like how each ranged weapon does) rather than have their current format of:

Knife < Machete < Axe < Katana < Chainsaw
 
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#34
Nostalgia is irrelevant when considering the Fire Axe. Its only real bright point was that its allows for powerful hits and was light. A position now fulfilled by the more expensive and more powerful Katana. The Machete always sucked and the Fire Axe sucks in comparison to the Katana, as the price should back up. But with the Chainsaw having the speed penalty i really don't see how its better than the Katana now in any situation. Its constant 'hit' is weakened slightly by the fact it doesn't necessarily stun/kill an enemy fast enough to stop it hitting you (anyone been hit by Gorefasts before while killing it with a Chainsaws primary function?).

I dunno about the Katana been too powerful. It just makes it really obvious in what ways the Chainsaw sucked.
 
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#36
Nazarov said:
I can see Axe, Katana, and Chainsaw having their niche, but can't really figure what knife or machete niches there would be. knife should inevitably be weak since it's a weapon people all start with. I don't want to drag this thread into another 'save machete' thread.
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Knife makes you run faster than other melee, whilst Machete swings faster than both the knife and Katana? Both niches the way I see it.
 
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#37
i don't think the ax has become to lack luster it defiantly has its place stagy wise fore me to garner cash in the early waves since you can afford it right off the bat or find one which means you have a better weap which = more kills which then puts me close to the chain saw then i sell it and buy the chain saw i love the ax and it has made me beak my extended stay as a commando and brought me back to the zerker
 
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#38
For me as a passionate Berserker, the chainsaw was always fine balanced. Of course, the carrier had to be slower than with the axe, because the sheer damage and the advantage of not needing to reload were huge benefits. Now, you can have, at the same price, a weapon that does equal damage, lets you run faster, weighs A LOT less, has higher range, and all the other advantages you have from a melee weapon. There is really no point to buy a chainsaw anymore. The benefits you get from the katana overweigh every aspect - sure, you don't have to take heed on your timing with the chainsaw when you're defending a certain point - but that's the only remaining plus.
Imho TWI has to review the strength of all of the melee weapons. Once the katana is fixed, I think there will be reason again to buy an axe, which is at the moment not imaginable.
 
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#39
Colonel Justice said:
For me as a passionate Berserker, the chainsaw was always fine balanced. Of course, the carrier had to be slower than with the axe, because the sheer damage and the advantage of not needing to reload were huge benefits. Now, you can have, at the same price, a weapon that does equal damage, lets you run faster, weighs A LOT less, has higher range, and all the other advantages you have from a melee weapon. There is really no point to buy a chainsaw anymore. The benefits you get from the katana overweigh every aspect - sure, you don't have to take heed on your timing with the chainsaw when you're defending a certain point - but that's the only remaining plus.
Imho TWI has to review the strength of all of the melee weapons. Once the katana is fixed, I think there will be reason again to buy an axe, which is at the moment not imaginable.
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I think the katana is balanced for level 5 zerker on suicidal. I still take the chainsaw at later waves. Its the easiest way to decap FPs and also better at stopping swarms of gorefasts.
Katana is most useful for rambo or as backup for medic / firebug.
 
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