AI tank driver

[Mormegil]

Let's face it, it's unrealistic to take a tank out with one man running the entire tank.

I'd like to see on Tank maps (not combined arms maps), the option to have an AI tank driver when you take commander/gunner position.

With the new "Pointing" system for commanders, you could point where you want to go, and the driver would...ummm...drive there. This should also be workable with the pop-up map, so you can go to the other side of the map which isn't visible in the 1st person view.

Of course this would only be effective if the AI is much improved (as TW has said it is, at least with infantry). It would be great if the driver AI would try to go to a hull down or turret down, and listen to the commander to back up and move forward (during reloads).

I wouldn't be surprised to find out this is already in the works, but just in case, I wanted to voice it out.


I also wouldn't seeing an AI MGer in the same situation (with human level aiming, not bot level).

 

[VariousNames]

Dear Jesus, NO.

Watch this happen:

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ_keeeInQc]YouTube - Halo 3 Warthog Traffic Jam[/URL]

 

[Mormegil]

Could you explain those videos a bit more? I don't play Halo 3, so I have no idea what the players are trying to do. Are they pointing to a location to head to? Why isn't the player firing?


Anyway, I'm just suggesting this IF the AI is up to the task. Even then, I would prefer it as an option, where you can drive. Maybe if you can set waypoints on the map, and let the AI drive through them, that would be good too.

 

[VariousNames]

Waypoints on a map, maybe, on-screen frivolous bullcrap makes me uncomfortable.

 

[Mormegil]

Waypoints on a map, maybe, on-screen frivolous bullcrap makes me uncomfortable.

Well if pointing for commanders are in (a la Brothers in Arms), I wouldn't be surprised to see this implemented for tank commanders too. Though, realistically, the driver can't see where the commander is pointing too.

With an AI driver, I think it would be necessary to have the pointing icon, as I doubt an AI driver can understand, "Get behind that tree line on the left, and stay hull down behind the crest of the hill."

It might be nice for one commander to tell another commander if they're both unbuttoned.

 

[Susi]

Could you explain those videos a bit more? I don't play Halo 3, so I have no idea what the players are trying to do. Are they pointing to a location to head to? Why isn't the player firing?

Well player doesnt shoot because there isnt nothing to shoot at. And that
video shows how AI driver can make a endless traffic jam even that there isnt anybody on their way.

 

[Sgt. Lag]

Waypoints on a map, maybe, on-screen frivolous bullcrap makes me uncomfortable.

I don't think that the suggestion is so complicated. You would just use your marker to point where you want your driver to go. You can do that with infantry by pressing a single button already.

It would also be useful in multiplayer with real players too I think.

 

[Mormegil]

I don't think that the suggestion is so complicated. You would just use your marker to point where you want your driver to go. You can do that with infantry by pressing a single button already.

It would also be useful in multiplayer with real players too I think.

Though it's my suggestion, I can see the point that it's unrealistic to have your driver see where you're pointing. As I mentioned, I think it's fine for an AI driver, since you can't really communicate as well as to a human, but maybe not for a human tanker. Waypoints on a map though I think are fine.


Just to clarify, I'm suggesting an AI tank driver for use in multi-player (and single player too I guess). I forgot about the single player aspect, and thinking about it, I'm pretty sure if tanks are playable in single player, TW would have to implement AI tankers to fill the other duties, such as driving, MGer, etc.

 

[EvilHobo]

Well, a suggestion I had hoped to make but never took the effort to make the post was for tanks to already be fully crewed but for individual players to merely assume the role of a person already within the tank. This would allow for the quick switches between positions (you are merely changing perspective) as well as adding a little bit to tank combat much like how in WWIIOL it would be possible for individual crew members to be killed at which point players would not be able to switch to that perspective.

You will still have the opportunity to retain full control without the nonsense of there existing but one man in a tank meant for anywhere from three to five men. I mean, you might encounter some conservation of mass problems in that tank crewmen could hop in and bail out of tanks with the crews still in them (basically duplicating roles. NPC guys would remain in their position while the PCs could move about) until let's say the gunner gets killed and someone gets in the tank and goes to the gunner position then gets out. Not a perfect system, naturally...

Would also be nice I guess to see these crew members within the tanks. I'd like to believe it would help out with immersion.

 

[{Core}Craig]

tanks to already be fully crewed

Ok , I want a bt7 and i can drive it while my aimbotting bot hips all the axis. The bots would need reworked, even then I think it would be silly. How would your driver know where to go? What if your IS2 botgunner takes the easy pz3 kill and you gotta wait all that reload time with a panther watching you?

Id rather leave it the way it was, keep function over realism.

 

[Zetsumei]

tbh i want an individual driver and gunner. The rest i dont care about but i rather have switching to be not as fast as well.

I really want tanks to be manned by atleast 2 people over 1 man tanks if possible.

 

[Mormegil]

Zets, that got me thinking.

What if tanks could NOT go without at least two human players (in multiplayer of course). That would force people to teamtank. I'm sure many would hate that, but it would force more realistic gameplay.


And on the original topic, of how a bot driver knows where to go. My suggestion is the commander points where to go. I don't really like the idea of a bot gunner, but if it does go in, I'd prefer it listen to the commander / you to point out which tank to fire upon.

This might be more interesting if implemented with a separate (or separable) commander position from the gunner. That way you can be popped out the cupola, or use the periscope with wide angle view, and do the spotting. I've found having a spotter (even infantry) really helpful in tank on tank action.

 

[Zetsumei]

What about making the time to switch positions in a tank and to get in and out of a tank is realistically portrayed.

Then you're not forced to tank together, its just that a tank becomes either a pure tractor or a pure pillbox when on your own. Teamtanking will become effective for the exact reason why its effective in the real world aka you cannot man such a device effectively on your own.

People that rather tank on their own can do that and drive off, they will fail and it will get them to appreciate team tanking more. If they are forced to take someone in before they can tank people will only hate their cotankers. Trying to get them to leave the tank the exact second after they joined so the tank unlocked.

Now on the part of a good tank AI i'm all for that as well probably see some tanking in singleplayer, but i do not want tanks to become 1 man wonders in multiplayer. I hope that atleast the realistic mode will have real position switching time.

 

[Mormegil]

@Zets. That does sound better than required 2 tankers.


I'm still for a GOOD AI tank driver though for big tank maps.

 

[EvilHobo]

Ok , I want a bt7 and i can drive it while my aimbotting bot hips all the axis. The bots would need reworked, even then I think it would be silly. How would your driver know where to go? What if your IS2 botgunner takes the easy pz3 kill and you gotta wait all that reload time with a panther watching you?

Id rather leave it the way it was, keep function over realism.

The full crews are not meant to be AI controlled but rather to be a part of the damage model. If the gunner dies, the gun can not be used unless another crew member moves to his position, for example. As I said, the player(s) would retain full control of the tank with no AI at all.

I still feel as though physical position switching with only one or two people in a tank is inherently unrealistic.

Better get moving, time to slide myself down in to the drivers seat!

 

[Ermac]

Let's face it, it's unrealistic to take a tank out with one man running the entire tank.

I'd like to see on Tank maps (not combined arms maps), the option to have an AI tank driver when you take commander/gunner position.

With the new "Pointing" system for commanders, you could point where you want to go, and the driver would...ummm...drive there. This should also be workable with the pop-up map, so you can go to the other side of the map which isn't visible in the 1st person view.

Of course this would only be effective if the AI is much improved (as TW has said it is, at least with infantry). It would be great if the driver AI would try to go to a hull down or turret down, and listen to the commander to back up and move forward (during reloads).

I wouldn't be surprised to find out this is already in the works, but just in case, I wanted to voice it out.


I also wouldn't seeing an AI MGer in the same situation (with human level aiming, not bot level).

This would be a great idea I think. Even if you can have the ability to operate a tank by yourself I think it should have realistic switching times instead of the instant switch like in Ostfront, this would discourage people from driving tanks alone because they'll get killed in the process of switching. I think if Tripwire put their mind to it we won't have to worry about bad AI tank drivers. The way people drived tanks in Ostfront you might as well just have let people be able to shoot and drive at the same time b/c it was unrealistic the way it was anyways.