Bullet hit feedback

[Devil_Inside]

I like bolt rifles for the immediate feedback you get when scoring a critical hit - your target falls dead. What I miss is the feedback for non-critical hits. The targeted player continues to run as nothing happened.

I think it would be really cool if after a non critical hit, the enemy is pushed away (so he even falls to the ground), makes an accidental shot when hit in the arm (or a burst if carrying an smg), stumbles and falls when hit in the leg...

I don't understand why so few games implement this kind of effects. Even if some do implement them, then only for singleplayer.

I believe that it will drastically improve immersion, close quarter battles and overall game experience. (just imagine this kind of effects from 1st person perspective).

 

[213]

you're right. getting hit should affect accuracy.

but i'm not sure what you mean by having them pushed away. i've seen videos of people crumpling on the ground after getting killed, and people stumbling when wounded. they usually don't get pushed back. the force of the impact would not be any greater than the force of the recoil. other factors such as pain and surprise might make someone stagger.

 

[Mormegil]

The only way I want to see someone get pushed back is with something like a PTRD shot, or similar large caliber (mounted) weapons.

 

[Devil_Inside]

No, I don't mean pushed back a lot. I mean a shot to the left shoulder should push his shoulder back, so he for example turns around and falls to the ground from losing balance.

 

[skittlesareyum47]

when soemone is shot anywhere the slow down dramatically so you can tell when u hit them almost all the time....

 

[Devil_Inside]

when soemone is shot anywhere the slow down dramatically so you can tell when u hit them almost all the time....

And you like it that way? It looks silly when you meet someone in close quaters, you exchange gunshots and start spinning around each other in slo-mo. Wouldnt it be nicer if a burst to the legs will make him kneel or fall, a shot to the arm would make him accidentally fire his bolt rifle so he'll be unable to use it on you, etc etc.

It would look more like a real close quarter firefight, don't you think?

 

[RedGuardist]

No, I don't mean pushed back a lot. I mean a shot to the left shoulder should push his shoulder back, so he for example turns around and falls to the ground from losing balance.

That would just be so hollywood. If you IRL get shot to the shoulder or thigh or leg etc. it really does not push you back or turn you around. Even if the bullet hits to big bones, the push will not be that violent. Bullet really just goes through and does not transfer that much kinetic energy to your body, that it would push you around.

And I hope that RO:HoS continues on same path as RO:OST that if you for example get shot to your leg or shoulder and the bullet hits bone, you are dead in gamevice. Because you really can

 

[Zennousha]

I'd love to see stumbling/kneeling/tripping/staggering from non fatal injuries.

 

[Devil_Inside]

I don't know what a bullet from close range does to the body, so I won't argue. What I want to see in the game is the first person camera effects such as shaking of falling to the ground due to explosions, gunshots, etc
I don't want that bluring and slow-mo. It ruins the immersion and close range firefights completely.

P.S. about

the force of the impact would not be any greater than the force of the recoil

- I've heard that there was a case when a bullet got stuck in the barrel of a handgun, which caused the pistol slide to go off the rails and break the shooters jaw. Another thing I've heard is that a 9mm bullet hitting a bullet-proof vest plate could break the ribs underneath it.
I'm not saying that every bullet in the game should have a stopping effect as described, but for example the mp-40 9mm bullets should have enough force and stopping power to cause simmilar behaviour, particularly when encounetring bones in their path.

 

[Ralfst3r]

I'd love to see stumbling/kneeling/tripping/staggering from non fatal injuries.

That would be amazing. But I could imagine that would require a lot of time and effort to make that work.

 

[RedGuardist]

P.S. about - I've heard that there was a case when a bullet got stuck in the barrel of a handgun, which caused the pistol slide to go off the rails and break the shooters jaw.

Ofcourse flying piece of metal will brake your jaw, if it travels fast enough and weights enough. And probably it would violently push your head backwards. But it

 

[Devil_Inside]

I understand that, but a bullet penetrating flash transmits its kinetik energy (not all the energy of course) to the body, so a burst of 4-5 bullets to the same region would definitely have a stopping effect.

 

[VariousNames]

That would just be so hollywood. If you IRL get shot to the shoulder or thigh or leg etc. it really does not push you back or turn you around. Even if the bullet hits to big bones, the push will not be that violent. Bullet really just goes through and does not transfer that much kinetic energy to your body, that it would push you around.

And I hope that RO:HoS continues on same path as RO:OST that if you for example get shot to your leg or shoulder and the bullet hits bone, you are dead in gamevice. Because you really can

 

[VariousNames]

Oh, I just want to add a bit on fragmentation.

Occasionally bullets have a tendency to fragment, meaning break into bits inside the body. As I understand it even intermediate cartridges like the 5.56x45mm NATO have this tendency. This means an enormous wound and yet potentially no exit wound.

Plus you can have pancake effect with hollow points....

At any rate it's certainly not the tendency of all bullets to go straight through and straight out, even the AK round literally tumbles, although it does have a tendency to penetrate the body.

 

[LemoN]

You just said in your later post that the reason a 9mm would break bones when it hits a bullet proof vest is because it is stopped and the kinetic energy is transferred to the point of impact, whereas in this post, you say that even if it hit a bone, the force would not be that violent because the bullet would go all the way through and not transfer all of its kinetic energy....

you have to understand that a bullet beeing stopped all of a sudden, giving all its.. what 600J? (mp40) on one place without penetrating tissue will have more force of impact than a 9mm penetrating soft tissue and bones giving its energy slowly to the target and exiting with around 200J left

That would of course only be the case if the bullet fully penetrated the bone and tissue and made a complete exit wound.

wich happens most of the time with high velocity FMJ rounds
and even a 9x19 from a Mp40 will fully penetrate no metter where it hit in 90% of the cases at close range
also again it still will give its force slowly onto the target even if it would be stopped

Another thing is that I've always read that AK-47 rounds (7.62x39mm) have enough "stopping power" to basically put someone on the ground in a single round, whereas the M-16/M4 round (5.56x45mm NATO), occasionally does not.

yeah i also can read that Hitler was driving a Tiger1 dressed as batman right to stalingrad when Stalin came in a clowncar and dropped a satchel right on top of hitler
its ze internetz buddy

a 7.62x39 has more energy than a 5.56x45 but to put someone on the groud with one shot is a pretty different job
as not only muzzle energy matters but also the ability of the bullet to transfer its energy onto the target

 

[RedGuardist]

You just said in your later post that the reason a 9mm would break bones when it hits a bullet proof vest is because it is stopped and the kinetic energy is transferred to the point of impact, whereas in this post, you say that even if it hit a bone, the force would not be that violent because the bullet would go all the way through and not transfer all of its kinetic energy....

That would of course only be the case if the bullet fully penetrated the bone and tissue and made a complete exit wound.

Another thing is that I've always read that AK-47 rounds (7.62x39mm) have enough "stopping power" to basically put someone on the ground in a single round, whereas the M-16/M4 round (5.56x45mm NATO), occasionally does not.

What you need to understand is that Red Orchestra's bullets run the gamut from the small handgun cartridges like 9x19mm to enormous full size rifle caliber bullets like the 7.92x57mm. The AK-47 round (7.62x39mm) has around 2000 J of muzzle energy, whereas the Kar-98k/G41/G43/MG34/MG42 round (7.92x57mm) has 4000 J of muzzle energy, meaning it could literally transfer half of its energy and still have as much energy transferred to the target as an AK-47 round.

Frankly, I would expect the reaction from getting hit with any of the full-sized rifle rounds which occupy most of the weapons in the game to be anything but tame. I would expect limbs to be potentially severed just due to the bullet striking them.

Oh, yeah, for reference, that video I linked to at the beginning of my post was a 7.62x51mm, just slightly smaller than the 7.62x54mm round used in around half the Russian small arms in the game.

When I think 7.62 NATO, I think mess. I don't think people walking around like nothing happened when they get shot in their extremities.

Read what Lemon wrote. Pretty good post.

Different kind of weapons portrayed in game and their ammunition are familiar to me, so you don

 

[Devil_Inside]

Ok, "push" wasn't the right word, I just couldn't find another one at that moment, so I specified:

No, I don't mean pushed back a lot. I mean a shot to the left shoulder should push his shoulder back, so he for example turns around and falls to the ground from losing balance.

And people dropping like sacks of potatoes is exactly what I want to see in the game, as from third person perspective, as well as from the first person perspective.

Wouldn't you want to see an enemy drop on the ground when shot, getting up and trying to take cover? Wouldn't it look much more realistic than it is now? It shouldn't happen all the time, just in specific or random situations.

 

[RedGuardist]

Wouldn't you want to see an enemy drop on the ground when shot, getting up and trying to take cover? Wouldn't it look much more realistic than it is now? It shouldn't happen all the time, just in specific or random situations.

Yes, here I agree with you. Something like this could maybe be implemented to add immersion. It is not a bad idea at all.

There

 

[skittlesareyum47]

And you like it that way? It looks silly when you meet someone in close quaters, you exchange gunshots and start spinning around each other in slo-mo. Wouldnt it be nicer if a burst to the legs will make him kneel or fall, a shot to the arm would make him accidentally fire his bolt rifle so he'll be unable to use it on you, etc etc.

It would look more like a real close quarter firefight, don't you think?

well there is only so much twi could do with an old engine. but anyway im not to sure for the shooting of the gun. itd be wayyyy to rando mand frusturating eve nif realistic. there is a fine line between realistic and TOO realistic in making games like this. same for the fallnig when shot, idk its just that who ever gets shot first would falldown and they are done even for kneeling. who ever kneels first is DEAD.

 

[Rak]

well there is only so much twi could do with an old engine. but anyway im not to sure for the shooting of the gun. itd be wayyyy to rando mand frusturating eve nif realistic. there is a fine line between realistic and TOO realistic in making games like this. same for the fallnig when shot, idk its just that who ever gets shot first would falldown and they are done even for kneeling. who ever kneels first is DEAD.

"Old Engine" is not an excuse now as UE3(3.5) is nowhere near "old", probably one of the most advanced out there.