Chainsaw 'nerf'

[w00tm0ng3r]

@Nanostrike - I don't play exclusively on FF servers, only when I can find a good one. Getting TK'd is really annoying, but that's not the game's fault. You can blame the people for that, and sometimes maybe yourself for standing smack in the middle of the line of fire and not crouching. (Not accusing you of this or anything... I'm just saying.)

Frankly, if you're a berserker and crouching you really want to be using the katana. Crouching makes it nearly impossible to hit zeds in the face with the chainsaw, which contrary to popular opinion, is vital. The chainsaw's primary advantage is it's ability to chain decaps with the primary fire; if you're crouching you can't do that. It's straight dps is LESS than the axe and not even comparable to the katana if you're aiming for the body; furthermore, unlike those two the primary fire deals out damage over time instead of in one stroke so whatever you're attacking won't die instantly. If it comes down to the chainsaw's secondary fire versus the katana, the katana can drop anything smaller than a scrake with 1 slash and does it much much faster AND has reach to boot.

 

[widowmaker]

Very true. The katana is even more powerful than the chainsaw. It's certainly true that you can't get headshots very effectively if you're crouched. This is why it is vital to stand somewhere where you don't get sprayed by lead. I have found that crouching can help when a surge comes by. Combined with moving backwards, it slows the crowd down for everyone else to clear. Sometimes it's better for a berserker to take damage when necessary.

 

[Sammers]

Frankly, if you're a berserker and crouching you really want to be using the katana. Crouching makes it nearly impossible to hit zeds in the face with the chainsaw, which contrary to popular opinion, is vital. The chainsaw's primary advantage is it's ability to chain decaps with the primary fire; if you're crouching you can't do that. It's straight dps is LESS than the axe and not even comparable to the katana if you're aiming for the body; furthermore, unlike those two the primary fire deals out damage over time instead of in one stroke so whatever you're attacking won't die instantly. If it comes down to the chainsaw's secondary fire versus the katana, the katana can drop anything smaller than a scrake with 1 slash and does it much much faster AND has reach to boot.

Wait, what? Have you ever considered Looking upwards?

 

[Vaevictus_Asmadi]

Because people don't like to risk having their legs chewed open? It still produces wounds, I know that. It just doesn't do the things people often attribute to it - like chewing through foes as if they were made of tissue paper. It's not got the destructive potential of an actual weapon of war like a sword - or of a tool that doubles as a weapon like the Axe.

Don't even start arguing about "weapons of war". Heres an example for you. Go outside and try chopping wood with a normal axe. It ****ing gets old really quickly and you will understand why the chainsaw was invented. A sword would be ABSOLUTELY terrible in a zombie apocalypse as even a ****ing world class athlete will get tired swinging a sword and having to pry it out of bone and zombie carcasses. One of the many "myths" about the katana is its legendary cutting power.

Real feudal Japanese war was not like anime. There was not this clean nearly instantaneous cut that bisected someone perfectly and the halves just fell away after the victim had a puzzled look on their face. Real katanas got stuck in bone and you purposefully tried NOT to chop with them. They were "cutting" instruments. You could easily disembowel someone or slice a major artery to cause someone to die from bleeding to death. This is what it is very good at.

Initially it was invented due to a "fast response" weapon being needed. They started out being worn blade facing upwards so that they could be drawn extremely quickly and perform an upwards slice all in a single swift motion. This was all based upon the fact that someone could be quickly incapacitated or outright killed through bloodloss upon severing vital arteries.

Despite its weight the chainsaw would be infinitely preferable due to the fact that you DONT have to do anything except hold it and press a trigger. You would not have to swing as I have seen my uncle cut up deer and cattle bones using a chainsaw and bone yields MUCH easier than hard wood.

They're gruesome because the chainsaw produces gruesome looking wounds as a result of how it cuts. Unlike a sword or an axe, a chainsaw doesn't so much as chop or slice as it chews.

Yes and its designed to chew through stuff that is far tougher than flesh and bone.

Muscle fiber is far thicker than lube, however.

Muscle fiber will not stop a chainsaw for even a fraction of a second. Go ask your local butcher. Muscle fiber is not some miraculous high tensile strength material. It is just bundles of proteins that would strip away and tear up easier than bark on a tree.

Chainsaws also work by tearing at the location of the cut simply due to things getting momentarily stuck in the tooth as its moving by causing a localized tear. Whenever you strain your muscle you are tearing muscle fibers due to over stretching.

I would be willing to bet that if a muscle was flexed when it was struck by the chainsaw the damage would be even more severe.

Perhaps in the Bloat's case. A FP would give a harder kick, being composed of thick skin, thicker muscle and even thicker bone.

I do agree that a fleshpound would be almost suicidal to attack with a chainsaw. There are a large amount of fatalities or injuries with loggers when environmentalists "spike" trees to attempt to stop loggers from logging in an area. They basically drive spikes into the trees and as soon as a chainsaw hits a spike the chain will break and fly back which can kill/maim the logger.

As people have mentioned the fleshpound has bits of metal all over him and even hitting the smallest piece of metal with a chainsaw can be fatal to the operator.

But yeah we cant really start an argument over what is real or what isn't as honestly all the melee weapons are completely silly.

I think the axe would be the worst offender as you probably would have a very hard time even severing an arm in a single strike unless it was up against a solid surface. So the fact that you do not have to stop and pull your weapon out of the thing you just buried it in really negates any realism arguments in the first place.

Its a game and we just have to accept the suspension of disbelief.

But I guess bottom line is, you can't talk about swords, axes, and what nought being "weapons of war" anymore. Its long been accepted that to effeciently kill an army you need firearms, ammunition, bombs, artillery, explosives, etc...

But I am sure you could go join the army and insist on using a sword, but I do not know how far you'd get.

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

Wait, what? Have you ever considered Looking upwards?

Yes, it utterly negates whatever range the chainsaw has and places you close enough to gorefasts where they can get the first hit. It also makes it impossible to backpedal away from them, but since they outrange you there would be very little point anyway.

 

[Nanostrike]

Again, people are praising the almighty Katana and yet people in this topic are STILL arguing for a NERF on the chainsaw? Rrrright...

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

Again, people are praising the almighty Katana and yet people in this topic are STILL arguing for a NERF on the chainsaw? Rrrright...

I know right? Frankly that thing just doesn't weigh enough. 3 blocks is ridiculous for a weapon of such power.

Sharpshooters are gods of long range combat but weak up close right? Not when they can pull out a KATANA and go to town on anything that makes it through the crossbow barrage...

Firebug can't flame dudes standing next to him without burning himself? No problem! Whip out the katana and get medieval on their asses!

Are you a medic who needs to run across the map to a wounded teammate while cutting a path to him? With a katana you can haul *** and kick *** at the same time!

Did the commando's previous weakness to the big guys piss you off? Buy an AK + Katana + double deagles and you'll never fear them again!

Support? Shut up, you're already damn OP

In short, for a berserker it provides an attractive (and by that I mean downright sexy ; extra points when combined with Agent Wilkes for that Grey Fox cyborg ninja look) end-tier ultimate weapon to compete with the chainsaw. A katana lets you run faster but the chainsaw is what you want in your hand when it's time to actually kill something, and is definitely the superior choice for holding down a doorway or chokepoint. The problem is that it's light enough for EVERY OTHER CLASS to combine it with THEIR ultimate end-tier weapon... There is no damn justification for letting the long range class have a weapon that can compete for best melee weapon in the game

 

[Marls]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

THE CHAINSAW IS FINE. STOP MAKING TOPICS ASKING TO NERF IT. PLAY THE RIGHT DIFFICULTY FOR YOUR PERK LEVEL AND GRADUATE FROM NORMAL.

Now, with that out of the way, lets get on with the reasons why:

1. It weighs a lot and slows down the person using it, whether it be berserker or other perk. This makes you incredibly susceptible to Sirens and Crawlers.

2. You have to get in close to use it. This is the distance that most people don't want to be from a specimen, especially Sirens, Crawlers, Gorefasts, and Bloats. Doubly so with reduced movement speed.

3. It's expensive. 1000 quid for non berserkers. Much less with high ranks of Berserker.

4. It can only hit one target at a time. It is not a room clearing device like the hunting shotgun, flamethrower, or crossbow.

If you're going to play the we want realism card, recognize this:

You're playing a game where a Biotech lab in England has a cloning device that pumps out zombies. Let's not even mention the fact that chainsaws would make a horrible close combat weapon to begin with if used in a real life scenario.

Nerfing the chainsaw in any way, shape, or form (overheating, having the chain seize up, etc) will only make the game less fun for everyone. It's an un-needed mechanic that will only serve to try and fix that which is not broken.

yep, you hit the nail on the head.

When I leveled my Beserker, alot of the time I used a FIREMANS AXE, why ? cause I had more mobility than the chainsaw. Mobility means getting in and out of a situation faster before becoming brown bread. Later waves sometimes I would go chainsaw because of the damage factor. A Flesh ponder still ripps you up when you go at it with a chainsaw, Theres no kiting with a chainsaw, its all or nothing. Kill it before it kills you.

Only thing I wish it had, as each time you brought it out, you had to cock it first (similar to the flame thrower) But with the introducing of the Katana, it would just lower the chainsaws value so now I think leave it as it is.

personally, I love the katana, keeps a relitivily high damage compared to the chainsaw but you get mobility like the firemans axe. Tho its kind a shame the firemans axe pretty much becomes obsolete unless wanting a cheap early wave weapon.

If you havent noticed, ima beserker who likes to keep mobility, so Katana has became my primary melee weapon. but the chainsaw does still have its uses. I actually use a katana on all my classes/perks. Infact I feel naked without my Katana.

But my final message,
The noobs should stop complaining and realize its high damage comes at a cost of speed and wieght. Its fine how it is and learn how to play a Beserker before stupid complaining.

 

[Wolfdust]

Don't even start arguing about "weapons of war". Heres an example for you. Go outside and try chopping wood with a normal axe. It ****ing gets old really quickly and you will understand why the chainsaw was invented. A sword would be ABSOLUTELY terrible in a zombie apocalypse as even a ****ing world class athlete will get tired swinging a sword and having to pry it out of bone and zombie carcasses. One of the many "myths" about the katana is its legendary cutting power.

Yes. Fighting is strenuous and tiring, that's a well known fact.

Real feudal Japanese war was not like anime. There was not this clean nearly instantaneous cut that bisected someone perfectly and the halves just fell away after the victim had a puzzled look on their face. Real katanas got stuck in bone and you purposefully tried NOT to chop with them. They were "cutting" instruments. You could easily disembowel someone or slice a major artery to cause someone to die from bleeding to death. This is what it is very good at.

Uh, yeah. I know that. Katanas however, are very sharp weapons and very good at slashing up unarmored Japanese peasants.

Which is why they'd be effective on ZEDs - they're unarmored and living and bleed out like normal humans.

If you want to take up issue on how handily it delimbs and decapitates them, well, I'd just have to say they're made of marshmellow or something. These are creatures who's heads explode when shot with a 9mm pistol, which is just ludicrous.

Yes and its designed to chew through stuff that is far tougher than flesh and bone.

Which is the problem. Flesh tends to gum stuff like that up.

Muscle fiber will not stop a chainsaw for even a fraction of a second. Go ask your local butcher. Muscle fiber is not some miraculous high tensile strength material. It is just bundles of proteins that would strip away and tear up easier than bark on a tree.

As it is bundles of fiber it will however bunch up and gum up the blade. There's a reason butchers use knives and specially designed motorized knives that look nothing like a chainsaw. A rotating chain + flesh = flesh getting draw inside and gumming up stuff.

But yeah we cant really start an argument over what is real or what isn't as honestly all the melee weapons are completely silly.

Yeah.

Its a game and we just have to accept the suspension of disbelief.

But I guess bottom line is, you can't talk about swords, axes, and what nought being "weapons of war" anymore. Its long been accepted that to effeciently kill an army you need firearms, ammunition, bombs, artillery, explosives, etc...

I wasn't claiming they're weapons of war now. I was pointing out the (indisputable) truth that they were weapons of war in the past. When the other guys used the same thing.

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

Infact I feel naked without my Katana.

"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed". - Lt-Colonel Jack Churchill (dude who fought WW2 with a longbow and claymore... and suceeded)

But my final message,
The noobs should stop complaining and realize its high damage comes at a cost of speed and wieght. Its fine how it is and learn how to play a Beserker before stupid complaining.

Exactly.

 

[Sammers]

Yes, it utterly negates whatever range the chainsaw has and places you close enough to gorefasts where they can get the first hit. It also makes it impossible to backpedal away from them, but since they outrange you there would be very little point anyway.

Why would you crouch when backpedalling?
Also, the Beserker has damage resitence, so they can afford to take some damage. Pointless argument is pointless. If you want to hit the slightly tougher enemies' heads, look upwards. Or better yet, use the alt fire. It does almost exactly the same as the Katana's primary fire, if not exactly the same.

"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed". - Lt-Colonel Jack Churchill (dude who fought WW2 with a longbow and claymore... and suceeded)

Yeah, he also got captured after his squad was obliterated by morter shells. He also utilised a very large sentry gun in order to achieve the conditions that earned him his medal. As much as he enjoyed his sword, it wasnt the most useful tool in his career it would seem.

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

Why would you crouch when backpedalling?
Also, the Beserker has damage resitence, so they can afford to take some damage. Pointless argument is pointless. If you want to hit the slightly tougher enemies' heads, look upwards. Or better yet, use the alt fire. It does almost exactly the same as the Katana's primary fire, if not exactly the same.

Yeah, he also got captured after his squad was obliterated by morter shells. He also utilised a very large sentry gun in order to achieve the conditions that earned him his medal. As much as he enjoyed his sword, it wasnt the most useful tool in his career it would seem.

The point is you can't backpedaling while crouching. If FF is off it doesn't matter, but the context of the quote was you're playing in a FF game. If you stand up to backpedal you get shot by your team; if you stay crouched you take unnecessary damage from the zeds. Yes you can look upwards to hit them in the head; no it's not efficient at all, and it's far far less effective than simply using a katana to cut their legs off. Also, chaining decaps with the primary is only for fleshpounds and trash enemies. So here's the problem: you can't reach the fleshpound's head from a crouch, clots are much easier to kill with a katana, and gorefasts are not only easier to kill with a katana but they also outrange and outrun you. The latter two also come in numbers so the slow *** secondary fire is again worse than the katana. Scrakes and sirens are better served with the alt fire, so with a scrake it doesn't matter if you're crouched but for the siren you better hope your team can kill it before it gets to you because crouch walking to it is retarded and standing to run means you get shot in the back...

As for Churchill as far as I know he got his first medal for leading the charge in Operation Archery while playing bagpipes and for duty at Dunkirk where he became the only Brit to attain a confirmed kill with a longbow. His second and better known medal was attained after capturing 42 prisoners with the broadsword, so I don't know where you're getting the sentry gun from.

 

[Sammers]

The latter two also come in numbers so the slow *** secondary fire is again worse than the katana.

There's a marginal difference in the swing speed, almost small enough to go unnoticed. Try it.

As for Churchill as far as I know he got his first medal for leading the charge in Operation Archery while playing bagpipes and for duty at Dunkirk where he became the only Brit to attain a confirmed kill with a longbow. His second and better known medal was attained after capturing 42 prisoners with the broadsword, so I don't know where you're getting the sentry gun from.

My bad, mine should have read "Sentry's Gun." Basically, he needed an armed prisoner to force surrender from the others, ergo, he needed some form of gun under his control to force surrender. While he himself was armed only with a broadsword, he needed that gun's help to get the job done. He wasn't entirely on his own anyway, so he had firepower with him from the start.