Level Design Terrain texture layers look different in Editor/Game

[=GG= Mr Moe]

This is driving me absolutely nuts. I have several terrain (texture) layers in my map that I have painted on in various spots over the base terrain texture. When I am editing the layers in the editor, I can get them to look rather decent. However, when I start up the map in game to look at everything, in some spots those textures look darker and rather blocky when I see them. In some spots, rather bad. I am not talking about seeing a pattern repeat from a height.

Now, I can go back into the editor and try to smooth them out, but that is extremely difficult because they get so faded in the editor, I can't tell just how much or how little the transparency is on those specific layers. What I need is for the results in the editor to look like the results in game, and me not having to do guesswork about where to touch up the layers.

I have the settings in game maxed out to everything, and as far as I know, the editor duplicates that. Is there something I am missing when trying to do this, some settings or specific mode where I can accurately see how the layers will be portrayed in game?

Any help would really really be appreciated!

 

[Murphy]

I can't realy help you, but to make sure the editor is maxed out too, check the display settings in the advanced options (view -> advanced options). I've had it happen that the editor used different detail settings than the game.

Can you post a comparison-screenshot of an area in the editor and in the game?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Screenshots of the differences? D'oh! Why didn't I think of that? Will try to get some posted soon

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Some comparison shots. As you can see, it looks so much smoother in the editor, but when in game, the textures sometimes really stand out. It doesn't look to bad when you are at the ground level in the game, but it is noticable when roaming or when up on higher ground.

Trying to guess edit (even with smoothing) in the editor is just that... guesswork. In some cases, the texture is so light in the editor I can only tell it is there if the grid is enabled, yet it will still show up in the game. Obviously I must be doing something wrong, or have the wrong settings in the editor:

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[Murphy]

First, I have to say I haven't had this happen to me yet so I don't know what it is, but here's some guessing:

Is this effect just more noticable when you are looking at the terrain from higher up or does it actually get worse when you look at the terrain from farther away?
If it's the former, can you try if this also occurs with/ without lighting? (you can type rmode 6 into the console to see the map unlit ingame. rmode 5 goes back to being lit. Maybe it's the other way round ). If it only happens with the lighting on you could try a different compression for the lightmaps. I know this is only supposed to have an impact on lightmaps (ie lighting on BSP) but according to this it can also affect meshes so maybe it affects terrains as well. Try RGBA8 as it looks best and is smaller than DXT3.

If it's the latter it might be due to bad mipmaps.

 

[fiftyone]

Have you disabled AA , in your driver settings ?

 

[worluk]

i would say mipmaps, and/or some weird issue with detail settings.
You didnt modify the materials in any way before applying them to the terrain?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I will have to try and look at those suggestions, lighting and AA etc.

I did not modify the textures in any way.

I will also have to look at my driver settings in the NVDIA control panel, to see if there is any forced settings there.

On that note, I wonder if I am the only one seeing it that way in game, and anyone testing the map sees it like in the editor...

 

[Bommel]

Send the map to someone and we will find out if that problem only occurs on your machine.

 

[jeffduquette]

I'd be happy to look at the map in the editor as well as in practice mode game play -- although I think I may be using a similar video card to you. Anything to help out with getting a big tank map for MN...

 

[jeffduquette]

never mind -- I just realized I am probably not setup to look at MN *.rom files in the editor.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

For everyone else, what you see in your editor is how it looks in game???

I just want the terrain in the editor to look like it does in-game, so I don't have to guess at altering it and then check it in game back and forth a billion times. The guessing game with painting the layer visibility is soooo time consuming with nothing to show for it.

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I tried rmode settings in game, didn't do anything.

Settings in NVIDIA Control Panel include (I played around with these settings and it didn't do anything):

- Force Mipmaps (none)
- Anti-Aliasing Gamma Correction (on)
- Anti-Aliasing Mode (application controlled)
- Anti-Aliasing Setting (application controlled)
- Anti-Aliasing Transparencey (off)

I have all the ingame settings maxed out as high as possible with everything on and res at 1600 x 1200.

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Build Options in the editor are at default (DXT3) with sliders set at 15/70. I always do a full rebuild.

I tried rebuilding it with build option on RGB8, no difference.

I tried lessing the light on the sun actor substantially, but the blocky patterns were still there on the terrain.

I have tried paning, scaling, rotating, altering terrain axis etc and still the blocky patterns are there in game, but not in editor.

 

[jeffduquette]

What does a guy need to do open or create new MN maps in the SDK Editor?

 

[Bommel]

A working version of MN installed and you have to add this to your SDK-shortcut: -applaunch 1220 -mod="marenostrum"

 

[jeffduquette]

Thanks Bommel.

 

[Murphy]

For everyone else, what you see in your editor is how it looks in game???

For me, yes.

I tried rmode settings in game, didn't do anything.

Impossible. Something must have went wrong. Was it an offline game? The commands are cheat-protected so they only work offline in an instant-action game or if play-testing from the editor. Any type of multiplayer, even if you just listen your own server and you are the only one on it and it won't work. Did you try different numbers?
If you look at the top of a viewport in UnrealEd you see a number of different view-modes, from Wireframe to Depth. These can be enabled ingame by typing "rmode #" in the console. The # is the position of the corresponding button in the editor. E.g. "rmode 1" enables the wireframe view. 5 or 6 is unlit and 5 or 6 is lit.

- Force Mipmaps (none)

Just set this to default/recommended. If there is a problem with the mipmaps in-game it means your texture has strange mipmaps. Forcing mipmaps or not forcing them isn't going to change these.

Can you export the texture and send it to me, please? I don't have RO isntalled atm, but I have UT2004 here and I'd like to try the texture. If the error is here as well, we know it's the texture. If it isn't, it must be something else in the map or in RO. Just send me a PM with a download-link. I'm not sure if it's ok to just post it in here.

Build Options in the editor are at default (DXT3) with sliders set at 15/70. I always do a full rebuild.

I tried rebuilding it with build option on RGB8, no difference.

Ok, so this wasn't it.
However you should always use RGB8 instead of DXT3 as the lighting will be smoother. DXT3 is compressed so if you look at a surface with light on it (preferrably with the "white-surface plus lighting" view-mode) you will see small colored spots and patches from the compression. With RGB8 it's smooth. The dithering checkbox dithers these incorrections so it doesn't look as bad. As there are none of them in RGB8 mode the checkbox doesn't do anything there.
If filesize is an issue: I don't know if he found out about it, but TheAbyss had a tutorial about this in which he wrote the filesize is (surprisingly) smaller with RGB8 than with DXT3 (an angelmapper tutorial confirms this)! If you want to go with the smallest filesize DXT1 is what you want, but it has compression artifcats again, of course.
DXT1 if you want the smallest possible filesize. RGB8 if you want quality. DXT3 - Never!
Just throwing that out. Sorry for going offtopic.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

OMG, I figured it out!!!!

Apparently this happened when I very first started the map and was new to the editor. For my base layer I should have had an Alpha height and width of 256 x 256 (and I did!), but I must have had a leftover Alphamap texture in mylevel for that first layer that was set at 1024 x 1024 from failed first attempts and it was causing the problem. I deleted that first layer and that Alpha map re-did the first base layer correctly and now I see the same thing in both the editor and in game.

Of course, now all my texture layers are very subtle from me compensating before, so I will have to repaint them, but no more lost weeks of work!!!!

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I want to thank everyone who read and offered to help me with my problem. Very nice of you all and I really appreciate it.

Oh, and Murphy, I did try that rmode and it worked on 5 or 6, but only on the bsp. In my reply, I meant it did nothing to the textures on my heightmap.

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I hope this never happens to anyone and if it does, they find this post and correct it immediately!