Where did the first 3 years go?

[TheAncient]

Ostfront 41-45, nice title but from what I have seen we are cheating ourselves out of at least the first 3 years on most servers. Most of the map designs run on servers include tanks that didn't appear until the very end of the war like the JS2.

Did you guys know that the reason there is no real good tank actions for 1939-40 is because the majority and almost entirety of the German tank force was made up of PZ1 tanks which had one or two machineguns and no cannons for killing enemy tanks?
By 1941 the Germans had managed to equip many Panzer divisions with new Panzer III and IV tanks but they were still a minority against the Czek 35 and 38 models and the older PZ IIs still in service.
By 1942 and 43 the PZ IIs were still around, the PZ III was now the predominate model available, the PZ IV was showing up in reasonable numbers, and the Tiger was in service in special Heavy Tank Brigades. The Panther's debute was Kursk, July 4, 1943.

We need alot less maps full of Tigers, Panthers, T-34/85s, KV-1Ss, JS2s, etc, and alot more maps with the older lighter model vehicles.

 

[Jaesperson]

i think carpathian crosses covers those years and features early war tanks. vanilla red orchestra focuses on the war between germany and russia which began in 1941, thats why there are rather few small and older tanks.

 

[Bobdog]

RO is set in the eastern front, which did not exist until Germany invaded Russia in Operation Barbarossa on June 22, 1941.

 

[lu31605]

Most servers run danzig, but there's still some good servers out there.

If you want to play from 1941-1945, try playing a campaign that goes in order like that. IC , or any other campaigns probably follow that format.

 

[Shadrach]

We need alot less maps full of Tigers, Panthers, T-34/85s, KV-1Ss, JS2s, etc, and alot more maps with the older lighter model vehicles.

QFT!

 

[TheAncient]

Some of you are getting my question but most are missunderstanding it. And this topic is aimed more at the server admins and map makers then at the general player population but if enough players support this then the real guys who can make it happen might get on board.

The Germans invaded Russia summer of '41 and until late '42 when the first Tigers were used in the Leningrad area there were no German heavies. The first real battle with many of the tanks listed above was Kursk in July '43 so for all intents and purposes there is no real reason for not having good maps with armor represented for the two years from '41 to '43 where the largest German tanks would be the PZKW IVF2 and the best Russian models would be T-34/76 and KV-1.

In fact there would be two good mixes of models;

German;
SDKFZ 251 Halftrack
PZKW III
PZKW IVD
STUG IIID

Russian;
APC
T60
BT7
T34/76

And a more advanced match:

German;
SDKFZ 251 Halftrack
PZKW III
PZKW IVF2
STUG IIIG

Russian;
APC
T34/76
KV-1
SU-76

 

[jeffduquette]

I actually did this with my Maslova Tank Map -- 1942-43'ish tanks. PzKwIII & PzKWIVs vs. T34/76s, T60s and BT-7s. The first thing some dingle-wombel did with my map was to add a bunch of Tiger Tanks, Panthers and IS2s So even if we go to the effort of making the sorts of maps that are more in tune with historical orders of Battle, some dude will invariably feel the need to "improve" upon your work by adding unlimited numbers of Tigers, Panthers and IS2s . What can you do.

Some of you are getting my question but most are missunderstanding it. And this topic is aimed more at the server admins and map makers then at the general player population but if enough players support this then the real guys who can make it happen might get on board.

The Germans invaded Russia summer of '41 and until late '42 when the first Tigers were used in the Leningrad area there were no German heavies. The first real battle with many of the tanks listed above was Kursk in July '43 so for all intents and purposes there is no real reason for not having good maps with armor represented for the two years from '41 to '43 where the largest German tanks would be the PZKW IVF2 and the best Russian models would be T-34/76 and KV-1.

In fact there would be two good mixes of models;

German;
SDKFZ 251 Halftrack
PZKW III
PZKW IVD
STUG IIID

Russian;
APC
T60
BT7
T34/76

And a more advanced match:

German;
SDKFZ 251 Halftrack
PZKW III
PZKW IVF2
STUG IIIG

Russian;
APC
T34/76
KV-1
SU-76

 

[Sidus Preclarum]

In agreement, I'd love to see more early war stuff...

 

[jackal]

Maslova

Maslova

I played Maslova the other night on European server and found Jeff has produced a superb tank map.It is big fun, filled with early war tanks and had only 2 Tigers on it.I do not understand why North American servers ignore it.Orel is an excellent map and so is Black Day July but i found Maslova more fun than those two combined.Excellent work Jeff and totally unappreciated.

 

[D-Es-C-H]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Crappy early-war tanks ftw!

I have long dreamed of a map or maps set in the "Bloody Triangle"--the Ukrainian Border Defensive Battles in the first days of Operation Barbarossa.

This was the largest tank battle in history before Kursk, and featured a motley assortment of early-war armour on both sides, including the fearsome/ridiculous multi-turreted T-35.

Sadly, most players seem to want nothing but late-war superweapons. It's a shame.

 

[Sined]

Total agreement, the early war was dynamic and fast moving, Pzkw I and II a the true spirit of blitzkreig, avoiding cities and encircling defenses, only Stalingrad started the ..Slug-fest in the city, which the Generals at the time new to be not the best of ideas...

Maybe Ro2 might have Polish lancers vs PzkwI and II
and thanks i'd forgotten about the multi turret T35

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=138311
http://www.wargaming.net/tanks/MODELS/t35_2.htm
now with five turrets and 11 man crew its basically a map all on its own !
thats gunna make a modder very busy!

oh and add in a few lendlease vehicles.

 

[dogbadger]

I actually did this with my Maslova Tank Map -- 1942-43'ish tanks. PzKwIII & PzKWIVs vs. T34/76s, T60s and BT-7s. The first thing some dingle-wombel did with my map was to add a bunch of Tiger Tanks, Panthers and IS2s So even if we go to the effort of making the sorts of maps that are more in tune with historical orders of Battle, some dude will invariably feel the need to "improve" upon your work by adding unlimited numbers of Tigers, Panthers and IS2s . What can you do.

well you could make maps for MN where all the tanks are early war - even if some talentless monkey does decide to mess with your hard work and add modern tanks at least they will stand out a mile (literally - cos they will be the wrong camo scheme for starters)

I dont see it being a big problem in MN as it is an early war mod, and so probably attracts more early war 'bolt rifle + crap tank' types anyway..

 

[TheAncient]

At least I know now that I am not completely off base and knowing there are maps out there supporting it means all we need is for some of the servers to run them.

I just never saw the fun of playing the game if all I was going to do was jump into the biggest monster on the map and park it in my favorite camping spot to see how many kills I can wrack up before the rest of the players determined who the winner will be

Being vulnerable is exciting