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Russian army in Georgia.

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#62
thedonster said:
They're not Russian citizens. They're Georgian citizens. Russian very recently extended them passports, and has now decided to refer to them as citizens as part of its propoganda effort.

Certainly, Georgia made a major bad move by provoking the Russians in this manner and may to some extent deserve a military $hit-kicking as a result. But if you think about it for 10 seconds it's extremely obvious the Russians were planning something. How long did it take to mobilize their military response-12 hours or something? How long do you think it would normally take (using Russian logistics, in the Caucasus) to mount this kind of co-ordinated campaign, invading Georgia on two fronts? This is a huge logistical effort, planned weeks or months ahead of time. Those Russian tanks, troops and APCs as well as their support elements had to have been parked in staging areas near the border, just waiting for orders.
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i thought russian peacekeepers sent in were killed?
 
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#63
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#67
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#69
AXEL said:
i thought russian peacekeepers sent in were killed?
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I don't know if any Russian "peacekeepers" were killed in the initial Georgian assault or not. (note the quotations- their status as peacekeepers is extremely suspect given Russia was clearly providing military aid to the Ossetians- military advisers would be a better description) i don't see how anyone could know, since both Russian and Georgian reports on this conflict are clearly not to be believed.

Considering that the Russians were obviously planning an invasion for some time anyway, in retrospect that blows the whole "peacekeeper" pretense out of the water.
 
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#72
thedonster said:
They're not Russian citizens. They're Georgian citizens. Russian very recently extended them passports, and has now decided to refer to them as citizens as part of its propoganda effort.

Certainly, Georgia made a major bad move by provoking the Russians in this manner and may to some extent deserve a military $hit-kicking as a result. But if you think about it for 10 seconds it's extremely obvious the Russians were planning something. How long did it take to mobilize their military response-12 hours or something? How long do you think it would normally take (using Russian logistics, in the Caucasus) to mount this kind of co-ordinated campaign, invading Georgia on two fronts? This is a huge logistical effort, planned weeks or months ahead of time. Those Russian tanks, troops and APCs as well as their support elements had to have been parked in staging areas near the border, just waiting for orders.
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I agree, this one has definitely been in the making for a while now. Now, if the Russians had spent as much effort and planning on the PsyOps, there would not be so many western media sources showing pictures of Tskhinvali with the legend 'Gori under attack' under them.
 
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#73
Nestor Makhno said:
I agree, this one has definitely been in the making for a while now. Now, if the Russians had spent as much effort and planning on the PsyOps, there would not be so many western media sources showing pictures of Tskhinvali with the legend 'Gori under attack' under them.
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Yes, but that's the Russians for you, always one technological step behind. Besides, I don't think they care a whole lot about how this war is reported or perceived in the west. Putin has the Russian media under his thumb and that's likely all that matters to him. I bet this little adventure is going over quite well with the folks back home in Mother Russia. It certainly won't hurt the popularity of Putin's new proxy Medvedev either.
 
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#74
thedonster said:
Yes, but that's the Russians for you, always one technological step behind. Besides, I don't think they care a whole lot about how this war is reported or perceived in the west. Putin has the Russian media under his thumb and that's likely all that matters to him. I bet this little adventure is going over quite well with the folks back home in Mother Russia. It certainly won't hurt the popularity of Putin's new proxy Medvedev either.
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You know that PsyOps = spin/propaganda, right? I am not commenting on some alleged technological inferiority.

It is true that the Russian federation has a pretty low ranking in the 'reporters sans frontieres' league table, which is based on reports of intimidation, violence, censorship and so on used against reporters. (That is a pretty interesting table btw - some surprises in there for sure: http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=19388 ...who knew Bosnia was stacking up so strongly as a free country?)

I do not think that Russia does not care what the rest of the world thinks of them, I have been teaching a bunch of international relations students from Moscow for the past couple of weeks and they are pretty upset that most of the press in the UK has articles like this:

ZOMG Russian bear in Georgian invasion bloodbath!!! (that Georgia started)

The Russians I know in London are, in fact, all very upset about the whole situation, full stop - there is no triumphalist yee-hawing about kicking butts all the way back to Tblisi that I can discern.

It is no secret that Medvedev is a stalking horse for Putin - most people also know that Santa claus isn't real.

The fact is that Russia knows full well that it can do this stuff and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them - the EU cannot risk losing its oil and gas and the US is still counting the trillions being spent on relatively minor operations in Iraq and Afghanistan - they can't afford a war against an enemy that may have the power to fight back, particularly one that actually DOES have WMDs.

I think we can all be grateful for that and also for the fact that Georgia does not have NATO membership - imagine getting dragged into that shiat because of treaty obligations.
 
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#75
Rak said:
Video of Russian troops opening fire on Turkish press vehicle . . .

http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/modules/habervideo/video.asp?CatID=3&cbVideo=6488&cbQuality=1
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heavy stuff

but.

Unmarked Vehicle ? I mean, as far i read the russian never allowed much free roam press in the territories they moved in.

I think we can all be grateful for that and also for the fact that Georgia does not have NATO membership - imagine getting dragged into that shiat because of treaty obligations.
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indeed.
 
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#76
Nestor Makhno said:
I do not think that Russia does not care what the rest of the world thinks of them, I have been teaching a bunch of international relations students from Moscow for the past couple of weeks and they are pretty upset that most of the press in the UK has articles like this:

The Russians I know in London are, in fact, all very upset about the whole situation, full stop - there is no triumphalist yee-hawing about kicking butts all the way back to Tblisi that I can discern.
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International relations students in London aren't exactly a representative sample of the general Russian population.
 
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#77
Its funny to see how suprised my fellow(global politically ignorant) americans were when russia quickly invaded like the had it planned. Well of course they had it planned. Any major power in the world would have invasion,contingency plans for any situation that could effect their interests that would constantly be updated and revised. They wouldnt sit around twiddling their thumbs in peacetime they would be playing Risk.
 
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#78
Marquis24 said:
Its funny to see how suprised my fellow(global politically ignorant) americans were when russia quickly invaded like the had it planned. Well of course they had it planned. Any major power in the world would have invasion,contingency plans for any situation that could effect their interests that would constantly be updated and revised. They wouldnt sit around twiddling their thumbs in peacetime they would be playing Risk.
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There's a big difference betweenn having contingency plans and having tanks & support elements parked on the border ready to roll on a few hours notice. It's called mobilization. I'm not aware of any major power that keeps a fully mobilized invasion force on its borders, even North Korea.
 
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