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Kosovo

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#23
Rogosija and Nedeljista
Bratunac
Kravica
Mrkonjic Grad

This is only a little part of a big list of serbs' massacres.
There are no saints on Balkans.

What I'm trying to say - there were massacres from every side of the conflict, but people for some reason talk only about Serbs..

Here's expert's resume from court on Miloshevich.
"After an extensive inquiry involving the team of experts from 14 countries, the ICTY found 2108 bodies, while even Carla del Ponte stated that the number included Serbs, Albanians, and other non-Albanians. Apart from that, the chief persecutor (not prosecutor) admits that even after this extensive inquiry it was not yet established how these people were killed. Not only that, del Ponte's report also failed to answer two questions: who are the victims? And who killed them? An army of experts was recruited by the tribunal. They were equipped with the latest gadgets. They spent months combing Kosovo in a macabre hunt for bodies to justify NATO's war. NATO leaders promised that vast numbers of mass grave victims would be unearthed. The cameras were ready to roll. And then came the report: 2,108.

As Juan Palafox, Spanish forensic put it: "They told us that we were going to the worst zone of Kosovo. That we should prepare ourselves to perform more than 2000 autopsies. That we would have to work until the end of November. The result is very different. We only found 187 cadavers and we are going home."
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#24
Bolt said:
In this area everyone has hands in blood, and I mean everyone - be it the serbs or albanians, or bosnians or any other post-Yugoslavia nation. But serbs were unlucky enough to be made to a bad guy by propaganda of NATO states.
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Germany was stiled as the bad guys after WW1 by the Entente and nobody gave a rats *** about what was true and what was not.


Bad attitude to albanians after the WW2 will shine a new light if one will read a thing or two about what division Skadenberg with albanian soldiers did there to serbian civilians.
Stating that "if they want their own country, they can have it" is also stupid. Basques (sp?) want independence from Spain, North Ireland wants independence from UK, Belgium has some serious problems in this area also, as I heard, quite a lot of people in Quebec would love to be independent from Canada, Abhazia and Osetija even fought a bloody wars against Georgia and are independent de-facto from '92. Can you see Condoleeza Rice telling that her country fully supports their will?
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What about the Caucasus territories of Russia? Don
 
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#28
Bolt said:
There were no Latvia and Estonia until the fall of Russian Empire. I think that is a long enough period to count them as a Russian territory? But they have their independence and Russia have no claims to their territory or whatsoever, I'm just telling that your argument is wrong.

Also, I was talking about areas of Latvia and Estonia where there majority of population is Russian (more than 50%) - think of them as Latvian/Estonian Kosovo.
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you did not stated that in first place, you meant the whole population

about the historic facts: German settlers were in Latvia and Estonia before the Russians and you don
 
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#31
Do you know how many Russians live in Latvia? How many Russians live in Estonia? There is only 60% of Latvians in Latvia, only 63% (I think that's the right number) of Estonians in Estonia, the rest is made of Russians in majority.
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i was referring to this

...in the very EU national minorities have their irghts oppressed....
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tell me a ethnic minority in Germany,the Netherlands,Belgium,Denmark,Sweden (all members of the EU) that is oppressed and please specify your understanding of "Oppression"
 
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#32
Russian minorities in Latvia and Estonia, which are states of EU.
You could google up (if you're too lazy, I could giveyou links tomorrow) issues with "non-citizenship" there, also, changes in educational system (I'm talking about national minorities schools) and you could probably check ratio of their parliament - it's not equal to ratio of the population in these countries.
 
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#33
Kurds dont get independance from turkey because:

Eastern turkey has nice economic resources.
There isnt a clear cut majority in the area's they want.
By far most kurds in turkey dont want independance.
Turkey doesnt say you are kurd you are turkish etc they say everyone who lives in turkey is a Turk.
 
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#34
Bolt said:
Russian minorities in Latvia and Estonia, which are states of EU.
You could google up (if you're too lazy, I could giveyou links tomorrow) issues with "non-citizenship" there, also, changes in educational system (I'm talking about national minorities schools) and you could probably check ratio of their parliament - it's not equal to ratio of the population in these countries.
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It is a problem of Integration then.
Of course it does not justify use of extensive force against any ethnic group (to get back on the intended topic of the thread)
 
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#36
but thats the point, nobody is ever wrong or right, nobody holds the divine right to own a land or anything, everyone just fight for what they want to get or hold, thats how its always been in history and in nature.

thats why I never take sides in this kind of conflicts, the only ones I'm against are the religious extremists, I just can't stand the stupidity of religion and I don't accept it as an excuse to fight.
 
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