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Some modest wishes...

Gerstenmann

Member
Jul 25, 2006
11
0
... for future patches.

I love RO:OST. It is the best WWII-Shooter since DoD b3.1 (hate DoD v1.0 and DoD:Source). RO ist much more realistic and has a vehicle combat.

But nothing is perfect, so I have some small wishes, especially for the LMGs and exceptionally the LMG42, because I was machinegunner in my squad in the (german) Bundeswehr. I used the MG3 what is very similar to the MG42.
So I begin with

PART ONE
THE LIGHT MACHINEGUNS

#1: Tracers:
Tracerprojectiles were used in the 2nd WW and are used by all armies on the modern battlefield. Not only in night-combats. So far correct in RO. But the presentation of the tracers in RO actually, is not correct. They are very thick and very bright. They look like laserbeams for me. In reality they look quite unimpressive. Such as flying, thin, mealy yellow noodles. :)
They do not glow, or shine, or something (I speak from tracers in daylight). This is one reason they enemy can clear up your firing position extreme fast in RO. This is simply overdone.
Second point is, that there are too much tracerprojectiles in the belt/drum for a light machinegun in a dayfight. Estimated 1:5. The half amount would be better. 1 Tracerprojectile in ratio of 10 normal projectiles. So you can fire off short (MG42) burst without an tracer round and hide your firing postion longer.

#2: Limited sight:
You cannot get out of the ironsight-perpective when your mg is deployed. This makes your line of sight pretty limited and this is a essential thing for every soldier: a good view of the terrain which lies before him.
The possibility lifting up your head and watch over your mg is missing (like the mouse-wheel-function to free look over the shield in the Halftrack).

#3: Ammunition and suppressing fire:
The tracers beside, the LMG34 is a good balanced weapon I think. Indeed it has only a belt-drum with 50 rounds, but you can fire single-shots and use it for "Sturmschiessen" (hip-shooting). Also it is more accurate on long ranges. So the the MG34 is the "Sniper-MG" in RO, but this is absolutely ok.

But the LMG42 is quite clearly underpowered. Not the horrible "Hitlersaw", feared by the allied forces.
Even every short burst sets a tracer off, so your position is exposed after a few bursts. And you have only 100 rounds without reloading, what is few for an MG42. Even when I ignore the wrong rate of fire (the MG3 has 1200 rpm, not the MG42 - with about 1500 rpm), it is not enough. And 100 round belts were not common in the Wehrmacht, too. In the Bundeswehr whe used a plastic-box with 150 rounds. And as I said, the MG3 is slower than the MG42. The Wehrmacht used generally a metal-box with 5 or 6 50-round-belts, which were clipped together. So they had 250 - up to 300 rounds for their LMGs. To balance this out, the MG42-gunner should start with an 250 roundbox and no other in reserve. But he can be resupplied with (only) one further 250 round box in reserve. So he can carry a maximum of 500 rounds. These are only 100 rounds more than the actual amount, it is more realistic and he can lay down an effective suppressing fire. Also the reloading speed could be slowed, from 5 up to 10 seconds. Even the MG34 needs 5 or 6 seconds.
Thus will make the MG42 the feared "Hitlersaw".
Two more points for the visual appearance:
I.) The barell of the MG42 has an graphic-defect: It has no - errr - catridge chamber? Cartridge bearing? Hmmm I dont know how you call this. I mean the "Patronenlager". There is no texture for its backside, only a smudgy surface. The barrel looks like sealed by welding.
II.) The sight of the MG42 is set on 1000 meters or something like that. This does not look good, for someone who knows this weapon. This is a value for an HMG, but not an LMG. It should be set on a lower value (the sight-pusher moved in direction of the player), like 200 meters.

Compendium:
1.) 1 tracer round in ratio to 10 normal rounds for all LMGs.
2.) Scale down and shade the tracers. No more glow on daymaps.
3.) Add a head lifting function (maybe over the mousewheel) for all machinegunners.
4.) Change the amount of MG42 rounds in a box to 250. Only 1 reserve box allowed.
5.) Fix the graphicbug with the MG42 barrel, and adjust the MG42 sight range.

PART TWO
THE HANDGRENADES

I try to shorten the next parts.

#1: Grenade spam
I do not call this thing "grenade spam". But many others call it like that, so I choose that name.
There are definitive too many classes with grenades and some with too many grenades. This is not only annoying, as well unrealistic. The supporting classes have in reality no use for the assault - and defensive weapon of the handgrenade, because they stay back in combat situations or carry to heavy gear. Why should a russian sniper carry 2 grenades, when he is crawling 400 yards behind the front line and when those things hamper him, while moving smooth, sneaking through the underwoods and gliding on the ground?
Why should a german machine gunner cart 2 stick grenades (nearly 1 kg), when he already carts a 12 kg heavy weapon, 1 or 2 boxes of (I tell you that) heavy roundbelts, a sidearm with ammo, binoculars, a reserve barell, a reserve bolt and some tools (and has no use for it)?
But this concerns maybe 6 players (4 german/russian machinegunners, 2 snipers on both sides) on a 50 player server.
Fact is that first and foremost the regular infantry/storm troops needs handgrenades. I would prefer the system DoD b3.1 discussed the grenades (see compendium).

#2: StG39:
I've never heard of that. I know the Stielhandgranate 24, the Eihandgranate 39 and the Stielhandgrante 43. Also know the "geballte Ladung" and the "gestreckte Ladung" and the "Splitterring", to improve the splinter radius. But never heard from a Stielhandgranate 39. I think meant is:
"Stielhandgranate 24 mit Brennz
 
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How does there being no sound when the grenade hits the ground account for grenade spam? In a grenade spam, with 5 or more grenades flying through the air, which are quite easily seen, and with grenade spams often being used in the most obvious places (chokepoints) I don't see how grenade sounds cound stop that. Take the start of Krasnyi Oktyabr - when I'm a German, running through one of the two exits from the first spawn towards the Petrol Yard I know that grenades are going to be landing. This is pretty much the same in the middle of a match too - if lots of grenades are being thrown, you know that you are in the danger area without needing a lot of clunks. Unless the enemy are hidden, then suddenly release enough nades to be called a grenade spam in a coordinated throw (all the grenades in the air at once, none cooked or thrown early), AND the player doesn't see this huge barrage of grenades flying towards him I don't see how the clunk sound could eliminate or dumb down the nade spam. I know that I don't need a clunk sound to know that 10 or so nades are flying at me and exploding around me.
 
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Of course you are right. This sound cannot help you to be saved from an heavy grenade assault. Especially within a firefight you cant hear a grenade bouncing beneath you. But when you are in cover, no shot is fired at the moment and a grenade lands to your left only 1 or 2 meters - you should hear it, right?

I mean these missing sounds boost the frustration instandly killed by grenades only.
 
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PART ONE
THE LIGHT MACHINEGUNS

Check out RO-Kriegstadt for your MG42 ideas, feedback has been generally favorable. Working on implementing over-the-sights views for MGs (MG42, MG34, DP28) for Beta 3.

Tracers are fired at a ratio of 1:8 in my MG42. Stock settings are 1:4.
Each ammunition belt is 250 rounds, with none in reserve. MGers can have at most one reserve belt via resupply for a total of 500 rounds of ammunition.
Changes to the actual sights/barrel cannot be done via code and therefore cannot be done by me. But as for rectifying the tracer situation and making the MG42 more potent/feared, I have dealt with that.

Additionally, the PaK-Soldat-SS was changed to Panzerj
 
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The are grenade landing sounds, they are faint, but once you know what it is, you hear it every time. As for the others, yeah they would be decent fixes. Especially the tracers.

Yes, sometimes you can hear them. But make the test by yourself:
Start practice mode, deploy to Odessa, or another map with streets and choose your side. Then throw a grenade straight into the air, it will be drop only a few meters before you. You can make some steps into that direction and the grenade will drop right before your feets. I heard nothing on Odessa and Zhitomir1941, neither with stick grenades, nor with the F1s.

@ EvilHobo:
Very cool - I will check the map out. Thanks for your post and your approval.
 
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But the presentation of the tracers in RO actually, is not correct. They are very thick and very bright. They look like laserbeams for me. In reality they look quite unimpressive. Such as flying, thin, mealy yellow noodles. :)

This is my only hangup with your post (the rest is quite good), because im not sure it is correct!

First off, not all tracers are yellow (you may know this, but just to be safe i'll mention it anyway), Germany used yellow and blue tracers in WW2 (blue was used on machine cannon calibers, 20mm for instance), Russia used green tracers, and the USA and UK used orange tracers, and ofcourse, they all used smoke tracers.

But more so, since you where an MG3 gunner, you would have fired modern 7.62 NATO rounds, thease probably wont be comparable to the ammo of WWII, i've heard a few times that the old tracers where brighter than the stuff we use today, so there is a chance that RO may actually have correct tracers, or atleast reasonably correct.
 
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But more so, since you where an MG3 gunner, you would have fired modern 7.62 NATO rounds, thease probably wont be comparable to the ammo of WWII, i've heard a few times that the old tracers where brighter than the stuff we use today, so there is a chance that RO may actually have correct tracers, or atleast reasonably correct.

They may have been a bit brighter than modern tracers, but I garuntee you they weren't like they are in the game. You'd have to have a bullet that was 90% phosphorous to get those laserbeams.:D

To the OP: Agree all around with your ideas. Seconding you check out Kriegstadt for the superb MG changes.
 
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@ Grobut:
Interesting point. But I cannot imagine, that there is a great difference between WW2 and modern tracers. If you have some specific informations, let us know.
It exists a original (WWII) shoot, where you can see lots of tracers fired in the night. Unfortunately I cant find it by now. A comparison with a shoot with modern tracers would be enlightening.
Thanks for your post and agreement!

@ LogisticEarth:
I think we are agreed. :)

About Kriegstadt:
Yeah, that is the style!! :eek:
Its a completely other feeling with the changed MG42. Nice job!
 
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I.) The barell of the MG42 has an graphic-defect: It has no - errr - catridge chamber? Cartridge bearing? Hmmm I dont know how you call this. I mean the "Patronenlager". There is no texture for its backside, only a smudgy surface. The barrel looks like sealed by welding.

I wouldn't start recommending to nitpick something small. I can't help the fact if someone is annoyed over small stuff, and if something's wrong it is wrong. But is it really worth the trouble - especially when it is graphical based?

And don't forget to remember that Gefechtgep
 
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@ Grobut:
Interesting point. But I cannot imagine, that there is a great difference between WW2 and modern tracers. If you have some specific informations, let us know.
It exists a original (WWII) shoot, where you can see lots of tracers fired in the night. Unfortunately I cant find it by now. A comparison with a shoot with modern tracers would be enlightening.
Thanks for your post and agreement!

Unfortunately even that would not be a big help, as tracers never look right on camera, shutter speeds and light sensitivity alone on different camera's can make the same tracers look different (the exact same 7.62's can look like laser beams on one camera, or barely be visible on another).

If anything, we'd have to find someone who has both modern and old tracers who could fire them side by side and film that (same camera, same lighting, that could be usefull for seeing if there is any visible difference), but i doubt we can, as tracers are illegal for civilian use in most countries.


But im just beeing cautious, as quite often people here try to argue tactics/weapons/vehicals from a modern perspective, but we have to remember that this was in the 1940's, alot has changed since then ;)
 
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I agree with pretty much everything you listed.

In fact, I've seen some of the same suggestions made by others, and I've even made one or two that you mentioned.

Problem is, I don't think the devs care. I've seen lots of awesome suggestions that I think would be simple to implement, but I have yet to see any of them implemented, or even acknowledged for that matter by the devs.

About the MGs though, there's a server, I don't remember what it's called, but it runs some mods that addresses a lot of the MG problems you laid out... it's one of the 50 player servers. You'll know when you joined the right one, because they also have some custom sounds in it (which only play while you're in that particular server, so it's not permanent). You should try it out, the MGs are actually pretty effective on that server.
 
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In fact, I've seen some of the same suggestions made by others, and I've even made one or two that you mentioned.

Problem is, I don't think the devs care. I've seen lots of awesome suggestions that I think would be simple to implement, but I have yet to see any of them implemented, or even acknowledged for that matter by the devs.

Yeah, it'd be nice if the dev's actually came and looked in this sector once in awhile, and at least acknowledged the suggestion, then they could still say that they wern't going to use it.

But yeah, they don't care.:(
 
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