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Iron Europe

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#21
Rifle grenades are actually pretty complex to use, so I don't know how they'll be exploited. To fire you have to load a blank into the rifle, put the grenade in the cup, prime the grenade, then place the butt of the rifle on the ground (the recoil was enough to crack the stock)
They were pretty common to, for example, one man in every US squad had a grenade cup and rifle grenades.
 
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#22
Just watch the course of the frontiers over those 4 years and you'll see that they didn't move that much. And if you stay at the same place for a long time you've got enough time to build trenches. And trenches make small charges without any artillery bombardment useless if you don't have any transports.
And guess what? The things which offered mobility either were outdated -ever read any accounts about cavalry charges against MGs?- or weren't as efficient as they are nowadays -tanks/armored cars.
WWI was horrible because it was trenchline warfare whith massive losses for a few hundred meters. It was trenchline warfare in the Alps -quiet interesting to read about by the way- it was trenchline warfare in France and it was trenchline warfare in Africa. Prolly not in the dessert or at the Russian Turkish frontiert but I'm quiet sure about the rest. At the beginning there might have been some open battles but at the end both sides were dug in and just tried to get an advantage by throwing more material -guns and men- into the battle or using new technologies like tanks or gas -well gas is actually not a new technologie.

Yes, marching across no-man's land would make a horrible videogame - except, given the size of a standard RO infantry map, there is no need. Even on the first day of the Somme, the emblem of the waste of WWI, you could find plenty of villages or defended points which the Brits did capture, even if they were thrown back, which would be a suitable size and have enough points of interest/cap zones for a RO map. to say nothing of the eastern front or the later stages of the Western Front (storm-troopers who have reached enemy lines successfully and now must disrupt the enemy defences, perhaps?). WWI was not all "those that die as cattle" and there's more than enough there for a few paltry maps. I myself shall look forward to the mod with anticipation.
 
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#25
Helmchen said:
Did I claim that in any way? All I said was that the war was pretty static and reaching the next trench with compareable high losses is nothing I would call a great movement of the frontier... Of course there were slight advantages but they basically were about the same, getting into trenches and melee/nade spam the enemy.
The problem of that war was that both sides didn't have any idea of how to get past the new weapons and the massive amounts in which they were used as there never was a compareable war before.
Click to expand...
Fighting in Stalingrad was pretty static. The Germans made small gains for very high loses, and the front hardly moved at all. But yet Stalingrad has appeared in pretty much every war game since the original call of duty.
 
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#28
Why have rifle grenade to take out tanks, when German soldiers were equipped with K-bullets to take out tanks. The K bullet was capable of piercing early tanks armour - obviously not intended for annihilating the tank like in RO where they xplode, but, instead, to kill the crew.

EDIT: I hadnt read the whole convo - now I have, I retract my statement - but, if there are gonna be tanks, K bullets are a necessity, considering theoretically all German troops were equipped with about 5 each.
 
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#29
Tanks aren't planned for the first release. The way I want them done would probably be too much work for us right now.
Rifle grenades are more for taking out defensive positions out of reach of a hand thrown grenade than an anti tank weapon.

Positions are still open, modelers and mappers are needed most right now, though texture artists coders and animators will be needed soon to. Feel free to apply in this thread, via pm, or in our application forum at http://forums.darkesthourgame.com/
 
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#31
I absolutely have to disagree on rifle grenades here. I have never heard them mentioned before in WWI, and while they could have certainly existed, this in my eye means they either weren't common, or were not all that good.

Furthermore, rifle nades are just exploited so horribly in game. At the very least I hope they are fuse, and not impact, based. Impact based just turns them into long range accurate artillery from the hip, from everything I've seen. Even fuses would probably not alleviate that. One of the main uses in RO atm is they are one of the few weapons where one can take out an enemy without sacrificing mobility for a limited time (every other weapon except melee you cannot sprint and fire, and often you have to find cover/place to rest your weapon, go into IS, and kill the person.) The main disadvantage of this is that 1) Grenade ranges are not all that long, 2) to get an accurate grenade throw one has to often be sprinting in a straight line for a second or two, and 3) having grenades out are risky, if somebody appears suddenly you are often screwed, and with the german nades you have to also watch the fuse.

None of these disadvantages are in rifle nades, they have longer range, and I'm guessing they will be fairly accurate.

If they are to be in game, at the very least, limit it to one person, in a specialist role similiar to sniper or MGer.
 
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#32
Already said as an example one man in every American squad had a grenade cup, and rifle grenades. I believe the British and French had a similar system. Don't know how the Germans organized it. (they dropped the rifle nade program in the middle of the war, but had it brought back towards the end)

What games are rifle grenades exploited so much in? I've never seen a rifle grenade in any WWII or I game before.

They will be fuse as I believe most versions were, but I'll have to look into it.

They cannot be fired from the hip as I already stated above.

I'm not really sure how accurate you can be with the butt of your rifle placed on the ground, wiggling the end of your rifle around trying to get the right angle to lob a baseball sized object within a 10 foot or so radius of a person 200m away. But thats just me
 
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#33
They have appeared in MoHAA multiplayer, and they were positively disastrous. You could fire them from the hip to get instant, surprise kills around corners or in tight streets. People just jumped on that weapon and used it for easy kills. Even with the longer ranges in RO, it would still be used as a camping/spamming/Ramboing weapon.

If the "impact" (against what?) can shatter the butt of the rifle, what good does putting it into the ground do?
 
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#34
MoH doesn't strive for realism so using it for a basis as how rifle grenades will work in a completely different game is pointless.

@merder
The butt of the rifle had been known to crack from the recoil against solid ground after a decent amount of use. If it could do that then shouldering the weapon would probably result in a broken collarbone, while hip shooting I could imagine a broken hand.
 
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#36
I might give you an advice how I see the things:

First you should have a website with a forum and webspace to show your stuff and advertise for your mod.
Talk to the other mod lead developers (I would suggest worluk he is a nice guy most of the time ;)). You can learn from their experiences and follow their hints and I guess they can tell you many things about developing a mod for RO.
Help the other mods with beta testing and wherever you can (so they have to help you in return :rolleyes:)
Find a clan which supports you (they will serve you well as betas and maybe you can share webspace?).
Nearly all ppl whith modding skills are occupied with their own projects so you have to wait for them until they have more time or you search the net for manpower (lots of people know how to create content for the UnrealEngine or at least they knew).

Hope I could help you.
 
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