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The Ridiculous PTRD...

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American_Psycho

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#1
Just got kicked out of a AFTER HOURZ 50 person server for complaining about the PTRD! The rifle was repeatedly destroying German armor with one shot every time! Front, side, back it didn't matter. I ask is this realistic? I have never heard nor read any accounts of this rifle blowing up armor with one round. The round is not APHE, it is AP with tungsten core. So I ask why the one shot one kill? So say it penetrates the side armor. The round would bounce around and kill the crew, that is realistic. Say you hit the ammo stores. Would it ignite the ammo, possible, but a one in a million shot. Say it hit the engine or tracks, disable, sure. Say it hit the diesel fuel tank, ignite, probably not. Diesel does not flash like gas does and the round is not HE it is AP. The PTRD should be killing the crew if it penetrates not blowing up tanks like a Roman candle. So why the one shot one kill? Oh, and I don't like getting kicked for whining. If I'm whining too much then tell me to shut the hell up, don't just kick me. I was having fun. ;)
 
#2
No worries about complaining, it's a very valid question.

The reason the tanks are destroyed is the same reason that too many shots to non-lethal parts of the human body results in a kill.

If the tank is disabled, either by means of it's turret being unable to turn, or it's crew being killed, then it results in the destruction of the tank to prevent the player crew from sittin gthere in a tank that is unable to operate, or the crew being killed, and the tank not respawning because it's 'disabled.'

Better to have the game destroy the tank and kill the crew and respawn both, than to have tank crew running around in a vain attempt to not get killed, or to have the tank sitting there unusable.
 
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#3
I don't think it's the PTRD, but the tanks. Tanks in general blow up very easily in the game rather than get damaged accurately. Perhaps not very realistic but after all this game is not a tank simulator and I still think tanks are modelled well enough in the game. Also killing a tank with PTRD is not completely trivial task for most people, you'll have to know where to aim, find a good position, know when to reload and when to hide etc.

Transforming the game into a hyper realistic tank sim would probably mean making a whole new game. Also archieving that level of realisms would be very difficult since there are so many different variables involved and modelling their relations mathematically would be a very difficult task. We could be arguing our whole lifes about which round can kill which tank from which direction and range and still be none the wiser.
 
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#5
Tanis said:
No worries about complaining, it's a very valid question.

The reason the tanks are destroyed is the same reason that too many shots to non-lethal parts of the human body results in a kill.

If the tank is disabled, either by means of it's turret being unable to turn, or it's crew being killed, then it results in the destruction of the tank to prevent the player crew from sittin gthere in a tank that is unable to operate, or the crew being killed, and the tank not respawning because it's 'disabled.'

Better to have the game destroy the tank and kill the crew and respawn both, than to have tank crew running around in a vain attempt to not get killed, or to have the tank sitting there unusable.
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Well said
 
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#6
American_Psycho said:
Just got kicked out of a AFTER HOURZ 50 person server for complaining about the PTRD!
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I'm around at After-Hourz since may 2003. Have played several games with that community and to me it's hard to imagine you only got kicked for complaining about the PTRD. I also wonder why you also didn't post this at the
After-Hourz forum. You might be kicked to make room or for deliberate teamkills but not for telling people you think the PTRD is unrealistic.
 
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#8
Drecks said:
I'm around at After-Hourz since may 2003. Have played several games with that community and to me it's hard to imagine you only got kicked for complaining about the PTRD. I also wonder why you also didn't post this at the
After-Hourz forum. You might be kicked to make room or for deliberate teamkills but not for telling people you think the PTRD is unrealistic.
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I don't admin there, but on the server where I do admin, you might get kicked for that IF you kept going on and on about it, spamming the chat, and after having been warned to just drop it and get back to playing.

As for the weapon itself, I think the explanation of "They blow the tanks up as a game mechanic" is about as good as it gets. A PTRD could cripple an early war tank, at least conceivably, and a crippled tank is treated as a "casualty" the same way player avatars are if they get shot too many times in the arm. Basically the tank is rendered "combat ineffective" and removed from the game.
 
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#11
Experienced players know where the ammo is stored on each tank. Just look in the downloads/art section on this website. It only penetrates from the front anything up to panzer iv or from the side anything as long as you're close enough (panther and tiger are the hardest to kill and you have to be quite close from my experience). If there is any angle to any tank then the shell just bounces off so you have to have a flat surface to shoot at, which means the tank driver has to be aware of angling and how it adds to the armour thickness or he won't last long, or the ptrd guy has to be sneaky and flank the tank to shoot in the side. If you miss the ammo box with the first shot then the tank driver has a chance to angle and kill him, but will probably get shot by a tank then :D
​
 
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#12
American_Psycho said:
Just got kicked out of a AFTER HOURZ 50 person server for complaining about the PTRD! The rifle was repeatedly destroying German armor with one shot every time! Front, side, back it didn't matter. I ask is this realistic? I have never heard nor read any accounts of this rifle blowing up armor with one round.
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I was there too but as infantry. That was some pretty spectacular PTRD action. Was he on top of the searchlight building for all of it? Makes me want to try the anti-tank spot for a change.

American_Psycho said:
Say it hit the diesel fuel tank, ignite, probably not. Diesel does not flash like gas does and the round is not HE it is AP. The PTRD should be killing the crew if it penetrates not blowing up tanks like a Roman candle. So why the one shot one kill?
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The German tanks didn't run on diesel like the Soviet tanks but on lovely easily ignited gas thanks to the German tank manufacturers.
 
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#16
ahhh..... I read this thread thinking "wtf? PTRD is a joke to try to use."

But I guess this was on Leningrad? For some reason the PTRD is a super weapon that rakes in hundreds of kills for the AT man on Leningrad. Perhaps the ranges or angles involved - but the PTRD can destroy both German tanks in only a couple shots. All from relative safety.

I wouldnt be too quick to call it unrealistic either? the 14.5mm round was the most powerful anti-tank rifle round, and the PZ3 didn't have all that much to protect against it. But I'm just saying penetration was likely... German tanks could sometimes be penetrated by dozens of anti-tank rounds without being knocked out.
 
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#18
Yeasterday at Elnya I shot at KV-1 from behind with 50mm APCR round somewhere between lower turret or upper hull. Round killed the driver but left the tank intact. That was definately a WTF moment, I had no idea it's possible to kill the crew members inside without destroying the tank. Well, it could be that his head was outside but it still would have been behind the turret. Has anyone done this with PTRD?
 
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#19
Probably you hit the driver's avatar, but the hit didn't translate to the rest of the tank. It's possible in the game, although I think that's pretty rare.

As for the PTRD on Leningrad, well, considering many shots will be firing on top armor (which is weaker than front and side armor, I think), and the fact that the early-war German tanks COULD be penetrated by such rounds, it's not surprising.

I don't usually get 1-hit kills with the PTRD, but I do get kills with it. Leningrad's a map that lends itself to the PTRD because of the close distances to targets, the opportunity for flanking and even top-shots, and the numerous little hidey-holes for an AT rifle to set up. You really need a strong infantry presence combing the area to keep the AT rifles down.
 
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#20
Magnet said:
The German tanks didn't run on diesel like the Soviet tanks but on lovely easily ignited gas thanks to the German tank manufacturers.
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Germans used additives to their petrol to make it less likely to brew up. I've even seen a comment from a Russian tanker saying there was't much difference overall between a petrol and a diesel tank brewing up.

And for the thread. Yes the PTRD is quite ridiculously overpowered compared to its real life counter part. Its ability to consistantly one hit pz4's and lower is totally at odds with reality. I've even seen the PTRD in game damage a Tiger. Yup you heard it.. a Tiger. Quite how a PTRD round can pentrate 80mm of armour I have no idea. I've seen 2 tanks engage one another at point blank range, shot after shot bouncing off each other. But a single PTRD shot from afar and the duel is quickly won. Madness.

But the same can be said for the satchels and the faust. Both are also overpowered in their own ways. The satchel is perhaps even more overpowered compared to real life. A relatively small charge of unshaped explosive designed for blowing up obstacles. Yet ingame stick one 5 metres away from a Tiger or IS-2 and you can blow it to pieces. I can see one blowing a track or disabling an engine if placed directly on the tank, but outright destroying the entire tank and everyone inside? I doubt that was remotely common.

Faust is overpowered also, but less so. The two main flaws are that it lacks the backwash of flame behind it, allowing it to be used in inventive, yet unrealistic ways. The second flaw is you can fire off all three in as many seconds. I highly doubt anyone could get a faust, flip the sight up and fire three times that quickly. Not which they'd carry three of them in battle anyway....

So yeah... IMHO the tank damage system, or more accurately how the damage system is unable to cope with infantry anti-tank weapons, is the biggest issue in Red Orchestra right now.
 
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