Panzer IIC: The Axis T-60

[Solo4114]

I think the tank would also make a good anti-infantry platform. Not as good as, say, the Pz IV F1, but still good for a smaller map. The 20mm cannon is decent for taking out lightly armored vehicles (IE: APCs, UCs, clown cars), and the MG would be good for mowing down soft targets.

Obviously the main guns on the KV-1S, T-34/76, and Pz IV F1 are better suited to anti-infantry work than the MGs (especially loaded with HE rounds), but the Pz IIC and T-60 are both useful for those purposes.

 

[Gunwing]

I think the tank would also make a good anti-infantry platform. Not as good as, say, the Pz IV F1, but still good for a smaller map. The 20mm cannon is decent for taking out lightly armored vehicles (IE: APCs, UCs, clown cars), and the MG would be good for mowing down soft targets.

Obviously the main guns on the KV-1S, T-34/76, and Pz IV F1 are better suited to anti-infantry work than the MGs (especially loaded with HE rounds), but the Pz IIC and T-60 are both useful for those purposes.

I agree that if we have the T-60 we should have the Panzer 2C. I would perfer the F model though as many more of those were made and saw combat. But It would have to be on maps like Hedgehog, and Bondevro. It would make those maps much more fun for Russians as they would be finaly on par with the Germans for the types of tanks both sides have. It's kinda odd that the Russians have 2 T-60s and the Germans get 4 Panzer3s. Not realy fair or fun for the Russians on that map sense the Germans have the upper hand in armor and some times even tactics.

 

[Peter.Steele]

I agree that if we have the T-60 we should have the Panzer 2C. I would perfer the F model though as many more of those were made and saw combat. But It would have to be on maps like Hedgehog, and Bondevro. It would make those maps much more fun for Russians as they would be finaly on par with the Germans for the types of tanks both sides have. It's kinda odd that the Russians have 2 T-60s and the Germans get 4 Panzer3s. Not realy fair or fun for the Russians on that map sense the Germans have the upper hand in armor and some times even tactics.

You get a couple guys that know how to drive T60's on Bondarevo, and we'll give the Germans absolute fits. If the terrain is good, with plenty of places for cover & concealment so you can get into knife-fighting range, and I'll match T60's against equal numbers of any tank in the game other than a Tiger or a JS-2.

 

[engineer]

I agree that if we have the T-60 we should have the Panzer 2C. I would perfer the F model though as many more of those were made and saw combat. But It would have to be on maps like Hedgehog, and Bondevro. It would make those maps much more fun for Russians as they would be finaly on par with the Germans for the types of tanks both sides have. It's kinda odd that the Russians have 2 T-60s and the Germans get 4 Panzer3s. Not realy fair or fun for the Russians on that map sense the Germans have the upper hand in armor and some times even tactics.

C's for early war, C's and F's for mid-war, Luchs for late-war.

 

[sumway]

What would be really interesting would be a 221 vs a BA20. Both are armoured to withstand small-arms fire, so they cannot engage each other effectively...making them ideal for a small-map/unit engagment, where infantry support is vital. In later recon/small-force engagements (mid 42 onwards) the BA64 could be used, as the BA20s had stopped being produced, and were relegated to other duties.

The primary MG weapons would also mean that these units could be used for scouting on larger tank maps, as the operators would be discouraged from engaging anything with bigger guns than their own.

These two vehicles could be good additions to Ostfront or even future games/mods.

 

[engineer]

Bump

Still supporting this 100%. The IIc would balance out early war maps as well as provide the Germans a nice light tank for anti infantry and recon that saw use for the length of the war.

 

[monster]

because the first 6 months mostly involved russians being encircled almost effortlessly into pockets and then herded off to concentration camps in their millions. not a lot of balanced battles you can model into fun gameplay for both sides

There are MANY accounts of Soviet formations holding firm in the face of the German assault, and also accounts of "interesting" developments- the opening of the "Red packets" being one of them.

There are plenty of opportunities for excellent early war maps.

 

[Reddog]

The battle outside Moscow was early war (me wants remake of Moscow Highway)

 

[C-Unit]

yea, you should add a few of them

 

[Gunwing]

The battle outside Moscow was early war (me wants remake of Moscow Highway)

that map was fun but it was way too small and had no vehicles to make the gameplay anything but a nade fest/ sniper map.

If they remake it they should add the Panzer2C, and then have it and a panzer 3 for the Germans, while the Russians would get a T-60, and a KV-1S. Then give the Germans one APC and it would be a much better showing of what the battle was like. IE the early war tanks, and finaly make the map bigger and add a huge trench system for the Russians to defend and make it so visability is no more than 200 yards IE for the dead of winter setting. Then you should have the City of Moscow as part of the sky box in the background, and huge clouds over head. Oh and not to forget we need lots of wind sounds and snow blowing at 25 MPH. I would love a map like that! with the newly added Adaptave bloom, and anti-aliasing it would look killer sweet!

 

[engineer]

Bump, again. I still think the IIc/l is a viable light recon/anti-personell tank that would probably be quite useful in early/mid-war maps. Especially with AP and HE ammo for the 2cm gun.

 

[Aeneas2020]

if i were you i'd look to marenostrum ...but thats all i'm saying

 

[engineer]

I already look forward to Mare Nostrum. Smelly!

 

[TT33]

The Marenostrum Panzer II model which is excellent btw, is actually the much more numerous Panzer II Ausf. F (its mislabled as a C), look here:
http://www.marenostrumgame.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=295&start=15

Yeah I also look forward to the Afrika Campaigns!

Panzers blazing across burning sands-( to borrow a line from Cod2) "Got dust in your eye commander?"-

 

[Teufel Hund]

Panzer II? Nah...

Sdkfz 222!!!

It'd be freaking awesome on Orel. Reconnaissance etc.

I would love to have the SdKfz 222, but I think it would be much easier to include one of the many variants of the SdKfz 251. The basic model is already in the game, would just need to add the appropriate weapon on top. There were versions mounting 20mm MGs, 3 15mm MGs, 75mm guns (both short and long versions), and 81mm mortars.

I think more of these light armored vehicles should be included. They're perfect for the small scale combined arms engagements which RO models best.

Check out the thread I started a few months ago on this...

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14338&highlight=sdkfz

 

[mlespaul]

I have pictures of the reticle for the gun for the Panzer II/TZF 10.

 

[Maxdeth]

I too was surprised to see the T-60 included in this game and the Panzer II not. After all, during Barbarossa they made up a quarter of the tanks in each Panzer Division Panzer battalion.

In any case, there are many pictures of Panzer IIC's with the round Panzer IIE/F turret cupola, IIF turretbox and extra plates on the driver's front hull plate. These are uparmoured IIC's to coincide with the newer IIF's in service because they retain the IIC wheels. The IIA/B's were phased out before Russia because of their bad engines. Panzer IIF's stopped production mid-war in favour of the Luchs which was a complete re-design specifically built for recon.

I also noticed someone in this thread mentioned some Panzer I's at Kursk. These were not the models used to attack Poland. Like the Luchs, they are complete re-designs and they were heavily armoured to resist mines and satchell charges for close-in street fighting (no luck at Kursk, heh).

 

[K Rohm]

My 2 pfennig's worth- why not go for a healthy dose of 38t's? Otto Carius himself crewed one during the opening stages of Barbarossa before moving to Tigers.

 

[worluk]

My 2 pfennig's worth- why not go for a healthy dose of 38t's? Otto Carius himself crewed one during the opening stages of Barbarossa before moving to Tigers.

you mean those?

 

[koalorka]

Yes, the Panzer 38(t) and 35(t) were more common than the Panzer II, but all three saw service well into 1942. The Panzer II's automatic cannon was a great anti-infantry weapon and was effective against early Soviet light tanks and armoured vehicles. I'd love to seem these included eventually.