Server Problem Players

[Floyd]

It appears that as the popularity of RO has grown, so have the number of "problem players". I know this has been kicked around quite a few times, but perhaps it is time to come up with a way to conveniently share ban lists.

Lets get a few givens, assumptions and/or knowns out of the way:

• I think we all agree that every server owner/admin has their own idea of constitutes a bannable offense. That idea may or may not coincide with yours.
• Every server is the property of the owner/renter and how that owner/renter chooses to operate their server is their business.
• There are admin/owner's who have similar values and opinions concerning what makes a good server.

How would server admins feel about the format for sharing bans that follows?
A forums where admins could join.
Proof of server (and perhaps website) required?
Private forum area for the admins where each admin would have a thread with his name (or server) as the title. There he would make one post with the following info:
Name, GUID, IP, why banned

Admins could choose to use the lists, portions of the list, or ignore another admins list all together.
There would be no public discussion about the bans. If you (as an admin) wanted more information, you could PM the appropriate admin.

Do-able?
More trouble than its worth?

 

[ButchCassidy]

I for one would be willing to submit the 50 player list to a shared community list to be stored in a secure forum as I am sure most RO Admins would not want those players that we are banning from this server going anywhere near their own servers.
Failing that we will gladly share the list providing we have proof of server and a website where the Admins name can be checked against the membership.

We are seeing a huge amount of new players to the game join this server and that does bode well for the longevity of the game (Not to mentions TWI's coffers allowing them to build an even better New Game) but on the downside we will as a community have to suffer with people who want to do nothing more than spoil the "RO experience" for the overwhelming amount of descent gamers.

The most effective tool we will have is a global ban list that will ensure the worst offenders are kept out.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

The most effective tool we will have is a global ban list that will ensure the worst offenders are kept out.

I have well over 75 ID's & names on our list. Frankly, I'm reluctant to participate in a global RO ban list thing until such time as I am comfortable with knowing we have no "Admins" inserting names that shouldn't be there for whatever reason(s).

I've seen too many vendettas played out and a number of spiteful retributions. I'd gladly share with you Butch as I know and trust you. I'd also share with a few other Admins I know well but to "blindly go where no man has gone" in the RO community and have someone hold a mallet over the heads of everyone in the community... that's scary. Not a good thought.

We've seen the ugly politics that comes from this sort of thing before. Who doesn't like you for whatever reason.. and is the current person in charge of the ban list suddenly either boots you out of the group strange "things" begin happening because you said something they didn't like.. or quietly, a name disappears from the ban list because a "friend of a friend" was owed a favor.

Those of us who know and trust each other can privately share, but a formal ban list with the usual aloof, overly officious governing body and all its accompanying warts? No thank you. Been there - done that.

 

[Nagels]

A global ban list might very well work if everything was agreeable and universally acceptable.

The perceived unconstitution of same would no doubt be raised by those who would defend those unable to access servers (think incessant lobbying and longwinded whiny posts)..........I think it would merely transpire as an exercise in futility, albeit with noble and righteous intentions.

Players are a mixed bunch.....some just more mixed up than others

 

[Floyd]

My suggestion was not a global ban list, but a list posted by each server/admin. Each admin would be free to choose among the admins they "trusted" and make up their own list. If the reasons were given, too, then each admin could further fine tune their own ban list.

For instance, I may choose to ban players for excessive use of foul langage. Another admin may care less about the language used on his server and may choose not to add those to his list.

At least this way, hopefully at least the worst offenders (and to some degree the general population) might sit up and take notice.

Logistically though, I guess each admin would have to continually edit his posted list in the forums. He would also have to be sure to include only those that were banned for infractions on his server. Otherwise, perhaps add a field of "banned by the xxx server" to distinguish where the ban was initiated.

Floyd

 

[blkmgc]

We'd be interested in this as well. We've seen a number of blatant exploiters, teamkillers,and just plain disruptive jerks in general. Would be good , as administrators to be able to look at a long list of folks banned from other servers to see if they were banned from somewhere else for the same reasons before making a decision to ban someone, or to confim that it was a good decision if it were already done.

 

[ButchCassidy]

This subject has been kicking around for some time and I do believe that this site was put up as a test http://roadmins.cobra200.net/.

It seems to me that joining such a site would be a beginning to at least sharing banlists in an ordered way.

Whilst I agree that with many of the points against some kind of outside body controlling a global banlist I still feel that sharing a banlist with other Admins and allowing them to make an informed desicion upon whether or not to use it in part or whole is something that would benefit many.

These are our servers and whether we use the lists would be entirely each Admins choice.
In fact if it was any other way I myself would not consider it.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I am not a server admin 'for RO' (darn my clan for playing COD2 )

Mike and Floyd make some good points. Mike for ".......knowing we have no "Admins" inserting names that shouldn't be there for whatever reason(s)......" etc etc and Floyd for his mentioning of the different standards that different Admins use on their servers.

I am sure you would all only have the most severe repeat offenders 'globally banned' I imagine.

Just an outsider's thoughts....

 

[blkmgc]

This subject has been kicking around for some time and I do believe that this site was put up as a test http://roadmins.cobra200.net/.

It seems to me that joining such a site would be a beginning to at least sharing banlists in an ordered way.

Whilst I agree that with many of the points against some kind of outside body controlling a global banlist I still feel that sharing a banlist with other Admins and allowing them to make an informed desicion upon whether or not to use it in part or whole is something that would benefit many.

These are our servers and whether we use the lists would be entirely each Admins choice.
In fact if it was any other way I myself would not consider it.

Only problem I see there right off the bat is that when registering you have to make your email address public to anybody...and there is no way I'm puting my home phone number out on the net anywhere.

 

[ButchCassidy]

This was the oridinal thread http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15227 and you'll find the site makers name somewhere in there.

I am sure that he would tailor the site to suite the needs of RO Admins if requested to do so.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

We ban at this time for only two reasons;

• All manners of Deliberate and Excessive TK'ing (Self Explanatory)
• Obscene and/or Disruptive Behavior (foul language done purposely to offend, either typed or voiced for all to hear on a repetitive basis - destroying the usefulness of VOIP - flaming/baiting other players either voiced or typed)

I'm certain there are more but in general, these two categories of offenses fit pretty much everything we are concerned with. VAC takes care of the idiots so there is little left to worry over.

Further....

Since we do not suffer from rampant cheaters/cheating. The idea and concept of "global bans" is relatively moot. I've given this matter a great deal of thought and the fact remains - - the most we deal with is unruly, disruptive behavior.

I believe we can all share our ban lists for informational purposes only and share ban lists for use with those Admins we deem above reproach on a personal and private basis. (That's called TALKING to EACH OTHER via PM's, ETC.)

Banning disruptive half-wits and unruly brat kids (of ALL ages) must be on a server by server basis. After all, that's all we are really forced into dealing with. Else, I fear the intro'ed problems of ban list administration will become a bear with escalating distrust of the validity of accusations becoming an insurmountable problem.
​

After experiencing the outrageous abuses and international concept clashes in other platforms (which shall remain un-named) Grand Poo-Bahs with dictatorial powers over Global Ban Lists and all players is NOT for me. Guys, you had better think twice before initiating this VIGILANTE thing.

I'll gladly share my ban list with any Server Admin I know to be a straight forward, above reproach Administrator. Setting up a Unilateral, Control Freak Heaven over all RO players is a BAD IDEA. It will ultimately do RO a disservice.

 

[ButchCassidy]

Some valid points Mike But I see no difference in sharing my banlist with you as to sharing my banlist in an Admin only forum.

It is the TWB banlist as yours is the RGN banlist and if we feel the need to add others onto it whose names have been passed on by other Admins that is surely our choice the same as it would be yours.
If others feel they want to add names from our list to theirs then that again that would be their choice.
An Admin forum would allow admins to make an informed choice and add to their banlist at their discretion.
We have already added names given to us by other Admins and will continue to do so in an effort to keep out those who simply want to spoil the "RO exprience" for the vast majority of descent gamers.
We do not add all names I might add as we have found that some players banned on other servers visit ours and are very well behaved.
Again I think choice has to be key and it has to be an informed one which is why I think it is very important that reasons for banning would have to be included.
But ultimately the choice of who to add or whether to add anyone at all would be upto that particular Admin.

I do not advocate a global banlist that all RO Admins must use as i think for the same reasons you do that it is inherantly bad for the overall community and would have a detrimental effect by offering to much to one body but I would like to see an ROAdmin forum where not only banlists but other topics such as basic hardware server setups, RO.ini configs, map rotations, server innovations, mutators and match play settings could be discussed between Admins.

I would not see it nor wish it to be some secret underground forum with a hidden agenda filled with "Control Freaks"moreover as a place for Admins to discuss the technical end of running RO servers along with the day to day humdrum stuff.
The game has suddenly had a shot in the arm and appears to be growing again in popularity
I think an Admin forum would help a great many RO Admins as you and I know it's not the easiest game to setup servers for.

 

[Tripper]

Can we at least agree to ban-list munchnutters who grief and then post the results on YouTube?

VAC takes care of cheaters more or less, and most griefers don't play the game. The only reason we need an organized campaign to synchronize our ban lists is due to one or two people who are part of an organized griefing society. Most of the decent servers have blocked these folks, but I still see them here or there on backwater servers.

Like the folks above said, there's lots of room for abuse, and there's lots of opinions on what should be bannable, but the list I envision has less than 10 people on it.

Imagine those few guys, trying to get on any RO server and booted from every one. Every time they buy a new license, bang, they're on the list again after a few weeks. It might make them say, "My God!"

 

[Nestor Makhno]

Mebbe a database of global ID's sorted by the number of servers that each ID has been banned from (with details of which server and why upon drilling down).

Even if you are a very tolerant admin, you might ask why 1 person has been banned from 5 other servers (obviously you should have the option to ignore those bans which happened BECAUSE OF the player's ID being on the list).

Just a thought as it is a long time since I had the time to admin an RO server.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Mebbe a database of global ID's sorted by the number of servers that each ID has been banned from (with details of which server and why upon drilling down).

Even if you are a very tolerant admin, you might ask why 1 person has been banned from 5 other servers (obviously you should have the option to ignore those bans which happened BECAUSE OF the player's ID being on the list).

Just a thought as it is a long time since I had the time to admin an RO server.

Nestor, our site already supports Admins and their servers... I discussed this with Butch and he suggested that I delve into the possibilities of participation on the part of Red Orchestra Server Admins if I dedicate a RO SERVER area incorporating both an open forum for helping admins with server trubs and a closed Admin forum for the sharing of Ban List info.

Those Admins permitted in the closed area would be verified RO Server Admins.

The Admin Help Area is open. If the participation is there... we'll move forward on setting up the Closed (private) area.

 

[Floyd]

I would have gladly offered one of my forums, but they are phpbb2. Need I say more?

Thanks for offering your vbulletin server, Mike.
With regards to a Global Banlist, I think most of us are in agreement that this is not something we want to participate in. Too much room for manipulation.
Being able to conveniently check a problem player to see if he had been banned by other admins might confirm an intuition and save a bit of future aggravation.
Even if only a handful of popular servers participate, the RO community as a whole should benefit and perhaps a few of the troublemakers will see the error of their ways.

Floyd

 

[Mike_Nomad]

I would have gladly offered one of my forums, but they are phpbb2. Need I say more?

Thanks for offering your vbulletin server, Mike.
With regards to a Global Banlist, I think most of us are in agreement that this is not something we want to participate in. Too much room for manipulation.
Being able to conveniently check a problem player to see if he had been banned by other admins might confirm an intuition and save a bit of future aggravation.
Even if only a handful of popular servers participate, the RO community as a whole should benefit and perhaps a few of the troublemakers will see the error of their ways.

Floyd

You are very welcome.
I agree completely with you. We must preserve the outstanding integrity the RO platform enjoys. A Global Banlist with all its inherent warts is not for me either. The forum is set up and running... To all the RO Admins, stop by and say hello.

Click on my Sig Pic to get there from here.

 

[TWB*CalamityJane]

Well the NO.1 RO Problem Player has been on a massive T'king & Spamming campain again tonight. I know of at least 3 servers including ours he has visited impersonating the poor <RTR> guys yet again.
I have 5 banned guids for this guy already but it looks like he has been & bought another copy. A thumbs up for Tripwire as its more money in the coffers, but a nightmare for all the server admins & the playing public that have to tolerate him in game. If any server admins would like the guid pm me & I will pass it on. Hopefully it will be another copy that will end up in his trash can.

 

[Floyd]

One thing I have started doing is building a database of GUID's and names of people that visit my server. (I guess I could do IP's too, but I did not think about that.)

My database programing and parsing days are long gone so what I'm doing is very rudimentary, awkward and manual. It would be nice if someone with those skills would be so inclined as to put together a program similar to what OrangePeel did with CoD and his AliasFinder programs.

My method simply involves creating player logs (the way UT creats logs could use some work, imo ), then using a batch file to append all of the log files into one, then take this file and parse it with MS Access into a database. From there it can be sorted as needed.

I did this as part of the security of a tournament we were putting together and to keep an eye on smurfers.

OrangePeel had a pretty nice (though hard to comprehend) program that could actually monitor people that joined and alert players to their past aliases as they were playing. His database files could even be shared between users of the program.

Floyd

 

[GrossKopf]

It would be nice if SteamBans could include ROOST. Perhaps someone with time and the motivation could contact the guys over there and see if ROOST is something that could be added. Normally SteamBans is for Steam games like Half Life and Half Life 2 (And their mods), but they do use steam ID to ban confirmed cheaters.

If that's not doable, what about a resource like PunksBusted, where there are forums that possible cheat screenshots are submitted and voted on by server admins. However, I don't know if there's a way to do forced screenshots on a server with ROOST.

This is a little different from the "Bad players" banning as this would be banning actual confirmed cheaters....