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Scrubs

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Ullis

Grizzled Veteran
Nov 18, 2006
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#1
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm

There are a lot of these guys around. I can spot at least two:

1. the scrub who won't do something because it's unrealistic (see the tactics thread on MP40 vs MP41).

2. the scrub who only plays for "fun" and claims that he doesn't care about points.

I have to admit I'm number 1 myself, but I feel no shame. I've always suspected that the numbers twos are those who can't play RO too well and hence can't score high (compare with those guys who claim that size doesn't matter).
 
#2
yes, RO is full of scrubs ... I heard so many many times how it is lame to run & gun, how it is lame to use something "that mapper did not intend to create", how it is lame to camp spawn exit... how it is lame to kill anybody from any position any time...

I never understood that because first mapper has to correct his maps, if he does not do that after 3 years of playing (kaukasus, Krasnyi, ...) that than he want it to stay there (I am talking about jumping up the terrain to get to some "strange" positions) - especially when we have STEAM for all... too many thing to describe... i just say... thx for nice article ;)
 
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#4
So what this article says is that say in a boxing match, it would be a fair move to kick your oponent in the balls(Comeon that protection gear their wearing cant stop that! Can it?) because its an innovative and highly effective move?

MILK said:
yes, RO is full of scrubs ... I heard so many many times how it is lame to run & gun, how it is lame to use something "that mapper did not intend to create", how it is lame to camp spawn exit... how it is lame to kill anybody from any position any time...

I never understood that because first mapper has to correct his maps, if he does not do that after 3 years of playing (kaukasus, Krasnyi, ...) that than he want it to stay there (I am talking about jumping up the terrain to get to some "strange" positions) - especially when we have STEAM for all... too many thing to describe... i just say... thx for nice article ;)
Click to expand...

As these tactics can be used by the other side aswell, but the "scrub" would refrain from useing these tactics because of trust in their implied agreement that some tactics are lame and should be refrained from. So in the end your not exploiting glitches or mapbugs but your opostions trust. Basically if your gonna kick someone in the balls dont do boxing, but join the UFC thingy or wherever that is allowed.

And to quote the eight "I rather you didnt" of his noodlie appendages "Eight I Rather You Didnts"

8.
I'd really rather you didn't do unto others as you would have them do unto you if you are into, um, stuff that uses a lot of leather/lubricant/Las Vegas. If the other person is into it, however (pursuant to #4), then have at it, take pictures, and for the love of Mike, wear a CONDOM! honestly, it's a piece of rubber. If I didn't want it to feel good when you did it I would have added spikes, or something.
 
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#7
I remember this was a big argument when dolphin diving was still a problem. The users of the exploit called it a "feature", the opponents called it "cheating". For the most part, good (nice, skilled, not necessarily highest scoring) players, shied away from the bug as it was unrealistic and unfair. On the other, many players decided that if it's in the game, it's obviously meant to be exploited.

So who were "right"? The "innovators" or the realism "scrubs"?
 
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#8
spraduke said:
Maybe the concept of sportsmanship is dead?
Click to expand...
Sportsmanship. That's the word that wins every discusions about exploits and unfair tactics in an instant. The argument "its in the game" doesn't count!
Even a hack is "in the game" after you hacked it into it. No one could possibly believe that using exploits was meant that way.

I agree that some players are too "scrubby", for example those who complain about people who climb the building at the Siegess
 
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#9
this topic is just controversial ... I am not protecting any kind of glitches or cheat using - but jumping against terrain that will let you get to place where you would usualy got without problem if RO would not have totaly f*cked jumping is imo not glitching. Also the only argument was always that "mapper did not intended..." thats BS ... mapper had many years to correct it and he did not do that.

Regarding your boxxing example I will stay with analogy and tell that it is rule that boxers do not kick. 2M never use above mentioned jumping during official games. This i realy would like to highlight - I do not agree with considering that bug, but I am not using it since it is agreed rule... hope it is clear.

I am more competetive oriented than historical-accuracy oriented, so I realy do not care that dolphin jump was to gamey or other gamey whatever... on the other hand I never try to win at all cost. This is realy not black&white...
 
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#10
Oh thank god this forum is still how I remember it.

I joined and posted on the Company Of Heroes forums for about a week. Bad mistake. The place was infested with little kids and

"If itz in t3h gamez th3n itz g00d t0 m3 LOL!"

and

"Realism and gameplay dont mix" <--- that one made me go into seizures...

Some people play for fun, some people play to win, I like to do both but not at the expense of a fair game.

Moral of the story is, dont go to the CoH forums. You'll yank all of your hair out.
 
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#11
MILK said:
I am more competetive oriented than historical-accuracy oriented, so I realy do not care that dolphin jump was to gamey or other gamey whatever... on the other hand I never try to win at all cost. This is realy not black&white...
Click to expand...

I consider myself to be a competitive gamer as well. I like to win. Who doesn't? But to me, personally, it's not really winning if I have to exploit a bug or a mistake on the mappers part to win. If I'm not winning fairly, then what's the point? To be "one of the good players"? To be "serious"? I never used dolphin diving because I thought it was an exploit and unfair. I developed counters to it (not so hard), but I never used it, and I still had a blast and usually won anyway.

(Thought I should mention that this next paragraph isn't directed at you, just "win at all cost" gamers in general)

In the end, it's a game. Contrary to the author of this piece, games are supposed to be fun. And is playing with the sole intention of beating the other players at what ever cost really all that fun? It's not fun to the other players, that's for sure, and if your fun comes at the expense of others, then doesn't that make you a bastard?
 
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#12
The way I see it is that if one's attitude to playing RO is to win by using every glitch and unsportsmanlike conduct known to man you are in for a lot of perm- bans and surely any decent admin will not allow players deliberately exploiting gamebugs/features and/or play with openly unsportsmanlike behaviour. Playing in such a manner is to show a total lack of respect for the other players and tell a lot of the person doing so.
 
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#13
I understand your point milk but as a mapper myself there is always going to be somewhere/something that can be abused on a map that you didnt think of or intend and that doesnt always get back to you so you can remove it.

Common sense can tell you what is allowed and what is abusing the map (or feature). Unfortunatly common sense is open to interpretation :p.
 
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#14
Then lets TK snipers and grab their weapon and double or triple the numbers of our snipers ftw,because it is in game ,lets use the glitched spots where you can kill and cant be killed or seen ftw,if we manage to cheat or hack without being noticed lets keep cheating hacking.In the end all is better than being "scrubs".
This article is bull**** imo...
 
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#15
I play within the game's boundaries, or more simply, the way the mapper intended the game to be played. In other words, glitches or exploits just seems to be a petty thing to do. I'm pretty sure that mapper didn't intend me to get stuck inside a book-shelf where I can't get hurt, though I can still fire outwards, and yet get out with no issue.
 
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#16
"Realism and gameplay dont mix" <--- that one made me go into seizures...
Click to expand...

For Company of Heroes, this is true-short of redesigning the game, they could NOT make it realistic. Granted, when it doesn't hurt balance/gameplay, realism is nice.


It depends, really. If something is in the game and working as intended, then there's nothing wrong with using it. If it's a bug, though, like Dolphin Diving, then exploiting it is tantamount to cheating.
 
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#17
MILK said:
this topic is just controversial ... I am not protecting any kind of glitches or cheat using - but jumping against terrain that will let you get to place where you would usualy got without problem if RO would not have totaly f*cked jumping is imo not glitching. Also the only argument was always that "mapper did not intended..." thats BS ... mapper had many years to correct it and he did not do that.
Click to expand...

Sometimes code changes change the way a map works. Kaukasus has been rechecked, because new exploits emerged that were not there before, and a fixed version will be in the next update so these exploits are rendered useless.
Also sometimes a spot that shouldn't be accessible, and nobody knew about for a long time (or at least apprantly me), only gets fixed later on.
 
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#20
Demonic Spoon said:
For Company of Heroes, this is true-short of redesigning the game, they could NOT make it realistic. Granted, when it doesn't hurt balance/gameplay, realism is nice.


It depends, really. If something is in the game and working as intended, then there's nothing wrong with using it. If it's a bug, though, like Dolphin Diving, then exploiting it is tantamount to cheating.
Click to expand...

No, they werent even talking about CoH, they were talking about gaming in general. I realized after playing that CoH wasnt realistic at all... its pretty much warcraft 3 with WW2 skins.
 
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