Beta Map RO-Gorlitz Beta 3
- Thread starter FlashPanHunter
- Start date
nah, I dont have any problems with smoke at all. It's great on some maps... but you have to admit it changes the complexion of the fighting that takes place. Speaking for myself, I'll be jump throwing 4 smoke nades down the Gorlitz streets and take large chunks of map quickly... instead of fighting tooth and nail for every small pile of rubble. The latter type of fighting is more enjoyable not to mention more challenging, but thats a personal opinion.
...and you're right. The tanks will no longer be heavily relied upon - the smoke will be the main tool, because if it's there... why use skill and hard effort when I can just peek around a corner and throw my big grey blanket on everything (charge and spray). Also the German MG's (one of the main defensive tools) become severely hindered when a couple of smokes are popped, further decreasing their defensive abilities. I just think balancing can be done in other areas than to simply drop the smoke onto the problem as a fix or 'balance'.
...and you're right. The tanks will no longer be heavily relied upon - the smoke will be the main tool, because if it's there... why use skill and hard effort when I can just peek around a corner and throw my big grey blanket on everything (charge and spray). Also the German MG's (one of the main defensive tools) become severely hindered when a couple of smokes are popped, further decreasing their defensive abilities. I just think balancing can be done in other areas than to simply drop the smoke onto the problem as a fix or 'balance'.
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Interesting, this has been your experience with beta 3? I've been trying to get online to try it out and see how the smoke works in game but most of the servers, the populated ones at least, are still running beta 2.
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i dont think smoke will save the gameplay. I prefer you add more cover spots here and there, especially on the 2 bridges part.
I love this map. But work on the building textures and details before you finalize it. It's dull and i dont think i would like to play it several months as it is.
I love this map. But work on the building textures and details before you finalize it. It's dull and i dont think i would like to play it several months as it is.
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I agree with your premise wholeheartedly. There's only one drawback.. I think its a serious one for such a good map.. if there are not enough players to flesh out the classes, the way things are now.... the map is totally unplayable.
That's heart breaking... think of it. You can play the other bigger maps with less than three players per side and its workable. Not so here. I think the classes of players need to be better equipped, that will allow for low player count game play.
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We have beta 2 still going on our server, and I must say the map has high potential! I would add in comments coming from players on our server, and ourselves, to add the following:
1. equip all classes of soldiers a bit better with full weapons kit and grenades
2. have smoke grenades available
3. give the Germans some type of transport, if only two half tracks!
4. flesh out the buildings, as most all look alike, one thing we noticed were the "blank" signs on every building
5. tune down the tank ambient sound, but leave it ingame
6.finally, change the US marked universal carrier to Russian markings.....
Overall, a he** of a map so far......
1. equip all classes of soldiers a bit better with full weapons kit and grenades
2. have smoke grenades available
3. give the Germans some type of transport, if only two half tracks!
4. flesh out the buildings, as most all look alike, one thing we noticed were the "blank" signs on every building
5. tune down the tank ambient sound, but leave it ingame
6.finally, change the US marked universal carrier to Russian markings.....
Overall, a he** of a map so far......
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WHAT?? Am I reading this right?
nothing breath more apocalyptic air of chaos and urgency than a well placed smoke grenade.
I remember my days in the army, drills with live smokes added so much to the way you felt...running through it and all...felt like a movie.
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We're not talking about 4 smoke grenades at one time here, are we? We're talking about 1. And to prevent it being used, you could always, you know, shoot the squad leader.
I'm prepared for Rez to be proven correct, but I need to see the smoke in action before I'll concede anything there.
I'm prepared for Rez to be proven correct, but I need to see the smoke in action before I'll concede anything there.
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I wont lie, this map is built for a full server. There are only so many tools that I have as a mapper, and providing class availability by proportion is not one of them. As a result, I try to optimize gameplay, class avalibility, etc for 16 v 16, which may not be the best conceivable scenario, but I believe it is the best possible one.
Regarding adding german vehicles, I'm not sure if people advocating this have really thought it out, but for the german vehicles to move at all, it would require either that the germans destroy their own barricades or that the barricades be removed from the map. Neither of these really works.
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If its going to demand a full server than I, as an Admin will be forced to take it OUT of rotation. Which is something I do not care to do as I love the map but detest the complaints about playability. Even worse are the demands being made by experienced players wanting better playability - "who should have this and who should have that" and best of all, "why can't I fit through doorways and holes in the walls?"
I fear that your "full server only" design is overly ambitious in that few servers, very few, are full most of the time. It certainly is not conducive to garning the support of serious Admins in the RO community. Bots are also out of the question.
I'm not so sure of that, if the Tanks were capable of destroying the barricades, fine.... end of problem... also, The German Tank(s) could easily defend deeply into the map without having to resort to barricade destruction all. (Truth) We played (toyed) with the map for the better part of today.. I am not asking out of imagination or fantasy... we worked the areas and discussed the possibilities and potentials.
I cannot tell you enough that you have the workings of a great map here... just make the map enjoyable for all levels of servers... Admins and players.
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Then it won't be Gorlitz anymore. It is truely unique and imo I would love to see it stay that way. Adding "Everything" to this map will simply destroy the game play when it is a full server. Its a grind it out, down and dirty map and imo thats what makes it enjoyable.
No comment on the smoke yet though.
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There are a couple more maps that need full servers, like Tractorworks and Berezina.
btw, did you used the real map of Gorlitz for this map?
btw, did you used the real map of Gorlitz for this map?
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I love this map but...
Fix the classes. I'm not sure why you have to meddle with them, but not giving the russians a mosin is just criminal.
Optimize, my comp isnt low end or anything but parts of this map are unplayable for me
Fix the classes. I'm not sure why you have to meddle with them, but not giving the russians a mosin is just criminal.
Optimize, my comp isnt low end or anything but parts of this map are unplayable for me
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yeah, I don't really look at things as who's right and who's wrong, so I wanna be clear that I dont have a 'butting heads' attitude toward this. Really we want what is best for the map, and I've even said to Flash that I think it's great he is trying out smoke nades in his map.. because you should always try lots of combinations of all the available options given in order to have an idea of what works best.
I'm getting too wordy now but paralleling what I was saying earlier, here he has gone and created all these wonderful defensive positions, support tanks, juicy medium to long range engagements, and so on, only to be shrouded in smoke and turned into a close up affair. Smoke, out in a field or between two covering objects or in an open plaza, is one thing (for movements sake), but then use those two smokes in a tight closed street and now you've just got STG's and PaPa's meeting head-on in a hail of bullets only a couple of feet apart. We have Lyes Krovy for that stuff.
How can he add smoke sparingly? Is there a way to give the Squad Leader only one smoke nade, and then somehow adjust only his class's spawn time... elongate it so he doesnt just come back and throw another right away. (Thats what I meant about 4 smokes.. you throw out your two, overlap them a little... get yourself killed, and then come back and throw two more just a bit behind those overlapping as well, and now you've got a huge volume of smoke)
Or, is it possible to have a single spawning smoke nade in a crate that has a really long respawn timer? Place it out in the open part of the map, or near the one objective that seems to be hard for the Russians to overcome, and have only one of these in the map. Something like that might work if it's possible.
..though, I still prefer it when a subtle balance is achieved through the physical shape of the map, loadouts, reinforcements, clock etc.. as opposed to smoke
I'm getting too wordy now but paralleling what I was saying earlier, here he has gone and created all these wonderful defensive positions, support tanks, juicy medium to long range engagements, and so on, only to be shrouded in smoke and turned into a close up affair. Smoke, out in a field or between two covering objects or in an open plaza, is one thing (for movements sake), but then use those two smokes in a tight closed street and now you've just got STG's and PaPa's meeting head-on in a hail of bullets only a couple of feet apart. We have Lyes Krovy for that stuff.
How can he add smoke sparingly? Is there a way to give the Squad Leader only one smoke nade, and then somehow adjust only his class's spawn time... elongate it so he doesnt just come back and throw another right away. (Thats what I meant about 4 smokes.. you throw out your two, overlap them a little... get yourself killed, and then come back and throw two more just a bit behind those overlapping as well, and now you've got a huge volume of smoke)
Or, is it possible to have a single spawning smoke nade in a crate that has a really long respawn timer? Place it out in the open part of the map, or near the one objective that seems to be hard for the Russians to overcome, and have only one of these in the map. Something like that might work if it's possible.
..though, I still prefer it when a subtle balance is achieved through the physical shape of the map, loadouts, reinforcements, clock etc.. as opposed to smoke
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Yoou misunderstand the point of maps and games.... if it all were designed to satisfy the few as opposed to the many.... there'd be no success stories to speak of.
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I'm not so sure about that... they're playable with a few players as well as many players and of course, with full servers. That's as it should be. We've played and enjoyed both Berezina and TW with as few as six players.
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![[TW]Ramm-Jaeger](/data/avatars/s/0/2.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
Not to pick on Mike here, but almost every official Tripwire map is designed around playing with 32 poeple. For a larger map like Gorlitz 26-32 has to be goal, otherwise he's got to make the map MUCH smaller. Thats not to say that a map CAN'T be fun for smaller player counts and be fun for 32 as well. But certain map layouts and sizes lend themselve to different player counts. 6 on 6 in Danzig is pretty fun, while 6 on 6 in Kaukasus is not that fun (At least for me). Depending on scale, some maps just need to be close to full to be really fun.
I'm also not too fond of server admins being "bullyish" saying "if you don't do this and don't do that then I won't run your map on my server", etc. It's really up to the fans. If the fans like a game, or like a map, server admins will run it. Server admins input is important of course, but they shouldn't try and be bullies. I can STILL remember way back in the mod days, a whole server hosting company was running a bunch of RO servers. They wanted us to make a bunch of changes to the game to make it more arcadey (including adding crosshairs), and they threatened to pull all thier servers if we didn't. We of course refused, and the pulled all thier servers. The owner of the company sent me a lot of nasty messages, etc saying that we (the devs) were stupid, that noone would ever play a game as hardcore and realistic as we were trying to make. They said RO would never go anywhere I guess they were wrong ...
I'm also not too fond of server admins being "bullyish" saying "if you don't do this and don't do that then I won't run your map on my server", etc. It's really up to the fans. If the fans like a game, or like a map, server admins will run it. Server admins input is important of course, but they shouldn't try and be bullies. I can STILL remember way back in the mod days, a whole server hosting company was running a bunch of RO servers. They wanted us to make a bunch of changes to the game to make it more arcadey (including adding crosshairs), and they threatened to pull all thier servers if we didn't. We of course refused, and the pulled all thier servers. The owner of the company sent me a lot of nasty messages, etc saying that we (the devs) were stupid, that noone would ever play a game as hardcore and realistic as we were trying to make. They said RO would never go anywhere
I guess they were wrong ...
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Played several maps of Beta3 with 6 players, 24 and 32. All of them were fun.
The balance was pretty good. On the full servers the Russians got to the last objective but ran out of time and another time won with 47 seconds left. The battles were very fluid. The "gameflow" mentioned before is finally there.
The balance was pretty good. On the full servers the Russians got to the last objective but ran out of time and another time won with 47 seconds left. The battles were very fluid. The "gameflow" mentioned before is finally there.
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