Respawning is not realism

[dktekno]

There is no reward for staying alive. Only that everything is more hard. There is nothing to make you want to stay alive, everybody are like suicide bombers and martyres, and considering both the soviets and the nazis were very much atheistic, there would be absolutely no reason for volunteer for a suicide mission as there is no heaven for the one who kills the enemy by paying his life.

So respawning should be abolished completely!

This would, of course, limit the concentration of battle, as everybody would be too cautious.

To solve this problem, let us introduce the same thing into the game, that helped the soviets and nazis making their people run into combat:

When the squad-leader places a rally point, every soldier has a duty to get to that rallypoint within 20 seconds.
The rally point will have to include a sphere, or area, like the cap zones have.

If anyone, after entering the rally-point leaves this area, they will die immediatly.

This means the squad-leader gets alot more power, and thus can order an attack on a specified location.
You CAN die if you attack, but you WILL die if you don't.

One may ask:

"What happens if the squad-leader dies?"

- well, the answer is: We don't know. And this adds realism to the game: If you manage to kill your enemy's squad leader, the enemy will be unorganized and thus easier defeat.

 

[[=KAS=]doomed]

Err..... No.

 

[Nagels]

Then we get a campy game with lowlife type gameplay.....camp out and defend with a heavy mg everyone gets whacked.....no thanks!

 

[Gomer Pyle]

...considering both the soviets and the nazis were very much atheistic...

Whatever gave you that idea?

Consider this scenario:
Map: Odessa, start of round
German commander: Everyone defend Headquarters now!
Team: But we're supposed to defend Apartments and Square.
Commander: I don't care! Get to Headquarters now!!
<German team dies and/or loses>

 

[Solo4114]

It's a video game, dude. Unless you hook car batteries up to people to deliver lethal shocks when they die in the game (or at least very painful ones) they won't fear death no matter what you do.

If you give everyone one life, this game becomes a better, WWII-focused version of CounterStrike. I don't personally want that, but if that's what you want, nothing's stopping you from making a mutator that does this (someone may have done it already).

Basically, I think folks need to stop trying to find ways to make other people play the way they want them to. Play the way YOU want to yourself, and forget about other folks. People also need to get past the notion that this is a realism game in the sense of it replicating reality. It's got realistic aspects but it is still a video game nonetheless. this is not an area of the game that needs enhanced realism.

 

[odin1899]

Trying to take over Stalingrad with 16 soldiers while 16 others defend isn't realistic either. RO isn't a simulation, it's a game with some realistic features.

-edit- Erm, yes, basically I reiterated what Solo typed =).

 

[slyder73]

There is no reward for staying alive. Only that everything is more hard. There is nothing to make you want to stay alive, everybody are like suicide bombers and martyres, and considering both the soviets and the nazis were very much atheistic, there would be absolutely no reason for volunteer for a suicide mission as there is no heaven for the one who kills the enemy by paying his life.

So respawning should be abolished completely!

This would, of course, limit the concentration of battle, as everybody would be too cautious.

To solve this problem, let us introduce the same thing into the game, that helped the soviets and nazis making their people run into combat:

When the squad-leader places a rally point, every soldier has a duty to get to that rallypoint within 20 seconds.
The rally point will have to include a sphere, or area, like the cap zones have.

If anyone, after entering the rally-point leaves this area, they will die immediatly.

This means the squad-leader gets alot more power, and thus can order an attack on a specified location.
You CAN die if you attack, but you WILL die if you don't.

One may ask:

"What happens if the squad-leader dies?"

- well, the answer is: We don't know. And this adds realism to the game: If you manage to kill your enemy's squad leader, the enemy will be unorganized and thus easier defeat.

The re-inforcement you spawn as is not the "same" guy. It represents a different soldier, think the total number of soldiers your team gets with all the reinforcements, I'd guess a thousand or more individuals. This is realism, representing the strength of perhaps a depleted unit/company/battalion on the Eastern Front.

NOT having respawns would mean the fights would take place between 32 soldiers. That would NEVER have happened.

 

[Thorpy]

Look...

Its not a bad idea - maybe some tweaks

But yea, its a game, no1 listens to the squad leader, no1 cares, they JUST want to play an awesome game.

Thats just the way it is.

 

[Zetsumei]

respawning is not realistic yes.

But fighting a war over a few blocks of a city with 16 men aint realistic either.

Thats why reinforcements were added.


The problem i say there is, is that respawns and dying are not a bad thing. Nobody cares that much if they die.

That is what truly should be found an answer to, never you'll get a true fear of death. But there must be ways to end up that players will play realistsic maybe a compromise in respawns or whatever.

Remember that playing a new round after you died last round is just as unrealistic as just respawning only difference is the time interval.

Because everytime you respawn you're a new solidier. Just like every round you're a new soldier.

Things like limiting reinforcements, incremetal reinforcement, only reinforcing after x people died, eating up weapon slots if you die, max lives per class, max lives per playere, some classes eating more lives than others etc.

There are lots of ideas out there, i just hope that the devs put in some of them as server options so ppl can decide how they want to play. You can't give everybody what they want but with more server options different types of servers can cover a broader community.

And for publics don't make 1 class seriously controll all players. Some clan servers perticularily realism ones are bad enough already with the adminning and commanding everybody that joins.

 

[dogbadger]

The re-inforcement you spawn as is not the "same" guy. It represents a different soldier,

think agent smith in the matrix
But yeah - nothing wrong with a Last man (or team) standing scenario and I imagine very easy to implement. That POW train crash map by Penguin has a very low re-inforcment number already. Just have to make sure the map itself prevents camping by virtue of short timer, objectives or size whatever. Otherwise the dead get bored.
But nice idea in a server rotation, to add variety.
That said generally I epic battles with many reinforcments, with quick respawns at that, to create the illusion of a busy battlefield when you only have 32 ppl involved. RO is recreating the biggest battles and costliest front in the history of warfare- not a fracas down the local pub car park.

 

[Nimsky]

Respawning is very realistic actually, it's the only way to simulate a big battle. If there would be no respawning, everybody would just be sneaking around like a bunch of SWAT dudes. Besides, you suggested something that is not only unrealistic but also quite rediculous: anyone who doesn't follow the squad leader dies within 20 seconds. WTF? That would be a pretty good way to make everybody stop playing the game.

For once and for all, people:

THERE IS NOTHING UNREALISTIC ABOUT RESPAWNING

You could give people OTHER bonusses if they follow the squad leader though, like more accuracy for example.

 

[MtnMan01]

The re-inforcement you spawn as is not the "same" guy. It represents a different soldier, think the total number of soldiers your team gets with all the reinforcements, I'd guess a thousand or more individuals. This is realism, representing the strength of perhaps a depleted unit/company/battalion on the Eastern Front.

NOT having respawns would mean the fights would take place between 32 soldiers. That would NEVER have happened.

^^Ditto

 

[Zetsumei]

@ nimsky

respawning is unrealistic its just that its not more unrealistic than 1 life every round.

But something to give people more fear of death (you will never get a true fear of death but just enough to make people play more realistic) would be the thing to do.

 

[REZ]

If you play the game to win then you have fear of death. There is the clock, and your reinforcements - so if you dont care about dieing and you waste those... you lose. Playing in a match with a really good opposing team, you cant waste anything - clock or bodies - because you need every bit of them. Thats where the fear of death is.

It appears, on the pubs, that there is no fear of death, and that is because most dont care to play to win.... they'd rather kill. Nevermind bothering with capzones. The fact that there even is a clock forces people to take risks that they wouldnt in real life. You have to move and accomplish things or you'll blow the clock. Jeez people... it's a game. Even in games with one life per round people dont fear death. I think staggered (sp?) spawns simulate a large group of soldiers moving through an area quite nicely.

 

[Sichartshofen]

There is no reward for staying alive. Only that everything is more hard. There is nothing to make you want to stay alive, everybody are like suicide bombers and martyres, and considering both the soviets and the nazis were very much atheistic.

No, there is a reason the German belt buckels said "Gott mit Uns" on them.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

" ****, i never noticed"

 

[_MB_]

Until a realism junkie provides video evidence they have a full sized k98 lightgun, hook up a treadmill to the PC in order to move and situate the whole thing in an earthquake simulator I'm going to remain dubious of their intentions.

 

[Reddog]

Respawning is realistic when you are trying to depict action between too sizeable forces much larger than the 32 people a server can hold.

It's certainly more realistic than some 32 man 1 death per round CS jack-off excuse for a battle.

 

[panzerknacker]

LOL he complains about something not being Realistic. Then thinks there should be a moving bubble 20 meters wide that everyone would be forced to be in at anyone time or they would be struck down instantly by an angry god.

Is it just me or do these Realism nazis come off as always wanting to have total control over everyone on the server. Lets say they have eyewitness accounts of some battle, and lord have mercy on ROPlayer's immortal soul if he is not withen an inch of Private Boris' position at exactly 13:32:56 in Real stalingrad on the day of the Real battle or wham instant banhammer!

And who might be this All Powerful Squad Leader with his magic bubble for "Total Realism!" might one ask? None other then DKtekno, or whoever the Realism nazi de jour is today. While the rest of us saps must scurry to their every whim or be cast forever from the realm.

 

[Lt_Kettch]

I didn't take his suggestion serious at all. I think dktekno is making a big prank. Aiming to say something like: "Stop complaining guys. RO is good the way it is. The devs will tweak what has to be tweaked and not what little Johnny wants to"

I'am I right is this thread irony?