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Realistic Weapon Switching

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#61
Maybe 2-3 seconds when switching to nades, but it's far more when switching to a sidearm, panzerfaust or something big. You have to sling your weapon, then unsling the other and bring it to your view, which takes a good time.

Of course, unless you abort slinging and throw away your weapon :)
 
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#62
Rak said:
I have suggested this with the opening of "old" ROMod forums, which I think it gone unnoticed :)

I think we should have longer weapon switching times. Which is one of the weakest "realism" point of RO.

My system have two choices;
1)Normal shouldering
2)Emergency situation or if you are in hurry switching.

1)It should take a while to shoulder your MG and switch to pistol,shoulder your rifle to take grenades, shoulder your SMG to switch to pistol,grenades etc . . . Basically you have to think about 5-6 sec of "shouldering" time,when you switch from your classes main weapon.

2)If you have been catched by enemy; and you have to switch to your grenades quickly,there's someone coming from your back and you're an MG'er . . . This is the procedure for you :)

You take the normal procedure of switching by using mousewheel. BUT then you click fire button once, and the animation interrupts. Then your character THROWS what he got in hand and quickly switches to the desired weapon.


Pros/Cons of this system:
+It's not easy in real combat,so it will not be easy in the game.
+"Continous" nade spam will be cut, because of the switching time.(still can't help round start nade spams)
+++The overral combat will be alot more tactical,because of switching time again.No more switching to nades quickly and throwing it to that "badass" MG'er or sniper,or whatever you like :)
You have to think about your actions.
+Encouraging of main class weapons.

-New players can find it hard,because of those rambo,arcade games :)
--We will need proper switching animations,but first person ones not really needed as I think we can live with a blank screen while switching :)
-Moaning of rambo,frag maniac RO players.
Click to expand...

Im a total fan of your idea.... as im striving to brainwash every Gamer in the world to enjoy tactical realism hehe

There is a few points though regarding quickdraw of weapons.
I agree with the slow a) shoulder primary b) draw secondary
But I think the quick draw can be simpler.

When I am using the MG I sometimes reload heads up.
If someone fires at me, I have assiged the "drop weapon" key to the keypad enter. Once I hear a shot comming, I instantly bang enter and dive to the ground...

What Id like to see, is that when you drop your weapon you should be emty handed..... THEN you can select another weapon...
Once your hands are emty you can do a quickdraw.

So practical example:
You emty your G41 at one enemy and starts to reload... you spot an enemy rushing you... If you do a normal shoulder, you'd be dead so you smash "weapon drop key" and then select pistol and draw it really fast.

This idea is really simple to implement...
All you have to do is to make weapon draw quicker as you are emtyhanded...
and increase weapon sholdering on all weapons..
 
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#64
Regarding pistols, you could probably draw them one-handed, and all the two-handed pistol stances are a relatively new thing (around the '60s, I think). If anything, there should be a "draw sidearm" key.

Grenades...meh. I just wish your character wouldn't fish out a second one after throwing the first, and would just return to whatever he had out earlier.
 
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#66
I wanted to start same thread but there is another already :)

I agreed that waepons should swith slower. Hate when sniper quickly select his pistol and shoot you. (Not realistic) And when someone select grenade to kamikadze in close combat (as last hope)

1. It should depend on what weapon currently selected: Pistold switches faster, rifles slower - esp. semi autos because they have more lengh (and weight)


2. Players in PRONE position change weapons slower that in crouch or standing positions - pronind players limited in moves also it made game more realistic (try to put your rifle on shoulder when you prone), balanced and add variety to tactics . People will start think - what position to use - prone or crouch. In trenches it 'd be better to use crouch.

3. Moving players should change weapons slower. Though it should apply not on all weapons.

4.Please, TWI, DISABLE weapon autoswitching when previous shot from hand or when you drop gun. When you shot sapers' SMG, he automatically select (in 0.25 secs) his satchel charge then just drop it at you.

5. Wounded hands should influence on weapon switching.
Though wounded left hand should not influence when you switch to pistol and grenades.

6. If you want to change weapon faster, you should drop cuggent gun. But, again, NO AUTO SWITCH plz :(
 
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#69
My only issue with weapon switching is when someone drops theirs from being shot at, they instantly have a grenade or something in their hand instead. Change that and I'll be a happy camper.

Other than that the system is fairly realistic as is. It doesn't take long at all to sling a rifle and take a grenade from your belt, or reach back and grab a panzerfaust or something. It may take a little longer for things like that or the PTRD or the MG's, but it's so small a difference it's probably not worth spending time on.
 
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#70
Reise said:
My only issue with weapon switching is when someone drops theirs from being shot at, they instantly have a grenade or something in their hand instead. Change that and I'll be a happy camper.

Other than that the system is fairly realistic as is. It doesn't take long at all to sling a rifle and take a grenade from your belt, or reach back and grab a panzerfaust or something. It may take a little longer for things like that or the PTRD or the MG's, but it's so small a difference it's probably not worth spending time on.
Click to expand...

Be my guest if you can switch to Panzerfaut after slinging MP40 and fire all 3 fausts all in less than 7-8 seconds IRL. It's obvious that this matter have not been thought on, and classic Unreal Tournament weapon switching is what we have now. And I wouldn't call something from UT "fairly realistic" :)
 
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#71
Rak said:
Be my guest if you can switch to Panzerfaut after slinging MP40 and fire all 3 fausts all in less than 7-8 seconds IRL. It's obvious that this matter have not been thought on, and classic Unreal Tournament weapon switching is what we have now. And I wouldn't call something from UT "fairly realistic" :)
Click to expand...

That too then, who seriously fires 3 panzerfausts like that anyway? Like I said, there are a few things that need to slow down a little. And UT weapon switching is far faster, I don't know how you can say that it has the same switch speed as RO. I've played each UT since they were released, so I have a bit of an idea of what I'm talking about.
 
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#72
Phoenix-D said:
And..you still have problems doing all that one-handed, so the point stands. :p
Click to expand...

As one here, being a Marine IIRC, has allready mentioned it is possible with todays weapons. And I doubt that the people back than were more clumsy than the people today or that the grenades were that hard to use.

@Rak you can throw grenades very precise even with holding a weapon in your left hand, less precise than without holding a weapon, but well, it is not like shot-put. :rolleyes:
And don't forget, this is supposed to be war. You're ****ing fast are you are dead ****ing fast. Your time suggestions look like WW2 veterans are doing it now. You won't need 5 seconds to switch to your pistol.
And if you are a MGer it takes you 1-2 seconds to switch to your pistol if you are prone.
Exercising is there for a reason, not only for your Sergeant's amusement.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cjOTS38SuYw around 1:50
 
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#74
The_Countess said:
but would everybody take the time, all the time, to actualy put the gun on their backs?
if i'd need a nade quickly i'd just let the gun hang of my shoulder as it is and get the nade out. or place the gun on the ground or something
Click to expand...

We have a winner in the contest of ideas.

Theres no way you can accurately model the ease at which a normal person can manipulate objects with a keyboard and mouse.

Forcing a player to wait a "realistic" time is stupid. In real life if im in the middle of putting a rifle on my shoulder, i can easily reverse that action and shoot with my rifle. It is NOT realistic, to have you either drop your gun on the ground or wait 5-6 seconds while you finish an animation you have no control over while you are being shot at.

By keeping the weapon switch time short, we minimise these interface errors. Untill we have neural interfaces where we can see, hear and feel everything as in real life, then sacrifices are always going to be made in terms of gameplay.

Should we have 3 seperate buttons for reloading?
Should we allow player to control breathing? After all, the regulation of breathing is pretty vital, and maybe you want more oxygen in your system. Maybe you want to hold your breath so you can aim faster or make less noise.

These things arent good to have in a GAME.

you cant force realism when you have a pc screen and a keyboard and mouse. You arent REALLY in world war 2, deal with it.

theres no way a game can account for the detailed intricacies of human body manipulation. Having such a long weapon switch time is infeasable for a game which is essentially about KILLING.

If you want realism, why dont you have to eat drink and sleep all the times you arent fighting.

You arent for realism, your for your brand of realism. Everyone makes sacrifices for gameplay. Saying people want Quake 3 style gameplay just because they dont agree with you makes you look like an idiot.

Sure, you think yours is reasonable, and would add to gameplay and realism.

But, you are wrong.
 
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#78
I'm just saying what we have is wrong and something has to be done. Either this way, or another way.

RO's strong points are "realism" and "immersion", and this will ADD to BOTH. I don't see the point in retaining "obvious" features that harms the RO's main points and gameplay.

I've already listed the "pros/cons" in the first page, and calling all the pros "unnecessary" is going a bit too far. Also, why not come and contribute and try to improve this idea, rather than "attacking" it and even calling me "stupid" for a word I haven't said?

You have a good point on "reversing the process", then why shouldn't the animation play backwards when you want to reverse it? Just try to contribute, and improve it.

And if you have nothing constructive, but rather destructive, please don't post in this thread.
 
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#79
If you're going the realism route, I'd work on the tanks and AC instant crew bailout first. I find that way more distracting than a quick weapon switch. While the weapon switch may not be realistic I don't find it adds gameyness into RO (like the jump ability did in CS with bunny hopping). The instant bail does, with clowncar instant bails and sachel charges, instant exits and house assaults or trench assaults etc.. Those are killers as on some maps makes the rifleman useless as he's either facing an AC he can't do anything against, or 3+ assault troops that's going to own his butt and nothing inbetween.

You would also want it fixed first as otherwise the instant bail, lugering the guy with the pfaust/sachel and going back into the tank before the poor AT guy is 1/2 way through his weapon change is going to look even more gamey ;)

T.
 
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