Adrenaline Boost

[Isaak Johnson]

I'm really liking Nimsky's idea, because I've played a lot of paintball too, and even though it isn't a real war, I have never had to stop running cause I was too tired.

Maybe running too much could also affect recoil, I've seen a few videos online of people shooting Thompsons, MP40's and PPSH's just standing up in the open and having almost no recoil, one person was a 10 year old kid. (Search in Google under video)

So if your stamana bar is empty you would have the strength to hold the gun down better to prevent it from climbing, but when your tired and breathing heavy the gun would really start to get some air when you pull the trigger.

Would that be a good addition, or would somthing different be better?

 

[Murphy]

EDIT: do we really need the little guy in the left of the screen? Audio cues are enough for "stamina feedback".

As far as I know you can turn him off somewhere in the menu.

Operation Flashpoint had a nice stamina system. Basicaly you could run/sprint forever but you were getting slower and slower until you weren

 

[azazel998]

I hate to counter a friend, but I know for a fact that with up to 60lbs of gear mostly on the back, and that would be full gear not weapon etc, the average soldier can walk/hump about 18-22 miles, and properly trained can then run at least 2 miles after, not neccesarily sprint those last couple of miles, but definately run them. I've done it before where we'd walk about 18-20 miles a day and some of us would run the last couple of miles then do 100 pushups with our gear on before setting up camp.

Also a valid point is, when you go into combat chances are you aren't carrying with you all the same gear you were marching with. Guns, ammo, combat webbing, a couple canteens, etc. All this would prolly weigh about 30lbs at the most, or 15 kilos of combat gear. Take into factor adrenaline in combat, plus being in prime physical condition and age, and the average soldier would be able to sprint around for at least a half hour or so before A: Adrenaline leaves you and you begin to crash physically, or B: you've begun to sweat so much that all your energy is spent. Either case the idea of sprinting around a battlefield is not a great idea.

Another good point would be that German soldiers were probably in better physical condition than most Russian troops during the war. SS troops would have been in even better physical condition. So a lot of factors come in to play, but in all fairness it's roughly the same thing. And paintball is a good example of what combat is like as long as you are in the correct mindset. Throw on some combat gear and combat boots and a expensive paint marker with a full tank of nitrous plus gear, say even a few paint nades is prolly a couple lbs. or 1 or 2 kilos less than the average soldier carried into combat.

Having said all this........Sprinting forever would make the game lose it's tactical flavor imo. The idea of crawling around the battlefield and then standing for a quick sprint across enemy fire is very realistic. The fact of the matter is...Any real soldier in combat wouldn't be sprinting around the battlefield unless it was PFC Gump. A majority of combat in ww2 and present day is done with tactical maneuvers coupled with short sprints to gain position on the enemy. Therefore I think the way RO is setup for it is done well, and provides the SHOEBOX feel of what open field combat is like. If they had maps the size of bf2 maps I'd prolly change my opinion. Probably one of the reasons I hated playing ww2online was that you could only sprint for maybe 1/8th of a mile. (roughly 1/4 a kilometer).

 

[melipone]

Adrenaline boost should be posible for every action in the game..reloading, getting up from prone, going to iron sights, BUT it needs a good reason for people not to do it all the time while remaining realistic. Not sure on the best one but a cap of one adrenaline boost every minute wouldn't be too overpowered I think. I know my average life expectancy ingame is probably a minute or so (2 if i'm lucky ). Another idea would be that you can use adrenaline boost whenever you want, but the more you do it the higher the likelyhood of you fumbling your reload, messing up your iron sights (raise it too quickly/take longer to line the sights up) etc. So you do it once theres a 10% chance of cancling the action you tried and having to wait a second or 2 before you can do anything except melee, do it again just afterwards and theres a 80% chance you mess up. After say a minute the chance goes down to 40% or so and stays there until you die or use it again. This would mean you only use it when you really are about to die because theres a chance that you will put yourself in a worse situation than if you never used the boost at all.

I think something like this is needed because theres no way I would reload my gun in exactly the same amount of time whether i'm safely hiding somewhere or when theres a nasty looking German charging at me with a bayonet (although there should also be the option to cancle reload as well). So its realistic but it might make the game a bit easier..but if its got a decent negative aspect to it you will only use it in moments like a nade landing right at your feet (so without the boost you would die anyway). As long as its not overpowered I don't think it would be bad for gameplay.

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

Problem with such a boost is that in reality, you have no control over it. Thus, having a button-doperated adrenaline pump is not really what I call realistic

 

[melipone]

I would say its more realistic than having a uniform speed though..If you know its a life or death situation I doubt you would casually get up from prone or carry on reloading your gun at the same speed.
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[Murphy]

The real solution? Jog around the battlefield, and when "imminent danger/death" comes, THEN you sprint...

Best answer so far.
Where is the point in limiting the stamina when you get new power whenever you need because of a nade, and enemy, a bajo pointed at your ass, your car parked wrong, whatever.

It would be a great change if the stamina would work like in Operation Flashpoint. The player has unlimited stamina there. You can sprint as long as you want, but the sprinting speed is reduced gradually and when you run around too long you can only jog.
It wouldn't solve the initial problem where you would need the "adrenalin boost", but it would be great to see.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

The real solution? Jog around the battlefield, and when "imminent danger/death" comes, THEN you sprint...

i agree. its all a matter of planning and tactics. shouldnt have tired yourself out.

as for the operation flashpoint idea by murphy, yes that is a good system. but i think RO's maps are to small for that, and IMO the current system is the best once by choice

 

[Zell]

I'd say that your average rifleman could sprint half a mile if they were gear-less, well-fed from mom's home cooking, generally healthy, and was able to get 6+ hours of sleep in a bed. You gotta remember that these soldiers have been dealing with these conditions for months and years and they are not magically teleported from Germany to the front healthy, rested and ready to rock and roll.

I think it's fair that 17 seconds of sprint is fair considering the conditions they were faced to bear with.

Sounds fair, but that really needs to be shown in-game. Right now it just seems like your character is a tough-looking soldier with the lung capacity of a mouse. There needs to be some way for players to know that these soldiers are malnourished, tired, etc.

 

[Velcro Warrior]

I think the real solution would be to put little rotating pills around the map, or at least for the germans, and it would be like a Meth boost...

 

[Murphy]

You could have an adrenalin bar that fills up whenever you kill someone and once its full you can "activate" your adrenalin and you have unlimited ammo, double-damage and infinite health for a short period of time.

WAGH! Medal of Honor European Assault was soooo bad.

 

[MILK]

I would say its more realistic than having a uniform speed though..If you know its a life or death situation I doubt you would casually get up from prone or carry on reloading your gun at the same speed.
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since one agree and another do not agree (I also think it is ok as it is) ... only devs' opinion will be what decides here... and since it was already decided than you can very hardly expect this to be changed in actual RO game... I suggest you to think more about how to handle this in-game than trying to change it via comments on forum... but just IMO

 

[melipone]

since one agree and another do not agree (I also think it is ok as it is) ... only devs' opinion will be what decides here... and since it was already decided than you can very hardly expect this to be changed in actual RO game.../quote]

Yeah I know, if you reload in the middle of a fight or not in a safe place then you should be punished. I'm just trying to say that a uniform speed for everything is not very realistic. I'm sure if I was in some of the situations that happen ingame I would act quite differently to the options available to my character i'm controlling. For eg. I would not carry on reloading if I was about to be stabbed. I would either try to rush the reload or stop and use the bayonet..Or if a grenade landed right next to me I would drop my gun and leg it much faster than I can ingame.

I don't know what you mean by "it was already decided"..does that mean that everything ingame is not open to improvement? Its just an idea..its not like I expect the devs to implement everything they read here Or have they already commented somewhere on this and said it was a bad idea?

I suggest you to think more about how to handle this in-game than trying to change it via comments on forum... but just IMO

Its just an idea..sure we can play the game as it is, but the whole point of the Ideas and Suggestions forum is to add your ideas..I bet if it was never suggested that you have to click twice to reload your bolt that it would never have been implemented and if I suggested it now you would be like "well don't shoot if someone's about to stab you then you won't die while rebolting". That was added because its something you would do IRL (you wouldn't automatically rebolt the gun), just like you wouldn't automatically carry on putting in a stripper clip at the same speed when your about to be killed as when you're safely hiding somewhere. I like the game as it is though, but there are times when you feel you can't really do anything about the situation you find yourself in, but you could IRL.

I think for grenades landing nearby it would be great for gameplay to have an option to speed up your movements for a few seconds(no not just like sprint, getting up from prone too)..thats a situation you can't really do anything about and you didn't really have any options to avoid the grenade in the first place. Just being able to cancel your reload is probably enough I think..having a speed boost for this as well as being able to cancel isn't particularly important (but would be nice I suppose). The more actions its applied to though the less of a "level playing field" the game would become though so I suppose reloading and movement speed/stance change (getting up from prone) would be enough

 

[Reznor]

Didnt read that much of the thread to be honest, but my few cents:

Imho the stamina-system is fine. I only "run out" of stamina either when I'm way to careless (sprinting towards a combat zone, instead of jogging and sprinting when needed) or when really under stress for a while (bayo-fight can take stamina down quicky ). Oh, and I play without hud!
I never really care about my stamina... I just don't do long sprints (heck, those are "sprints!"). Sprinting from cover to cover, recovering each time a little bit when you secure your next route works perfectly fine.

When I read people saying "they sprinted half a mile", they should not only take into account that their conditions are way better (as said... well fed, had sleep, warm probably, no fear of death in the next few hours etc. etc.) but also the time it takes to recover from such a long sprint.
Red Orchestras stamina system would be way more realistic, if the stamina bar was "more". You can use it up way longer, but it also takes way longer to fill up again...

After sprinting half a mile, could you shoot, concentrate, watch your surroundings and then sprint right again after a few seconds?
You'll probably be exhausted and even if you say you'd be able to sprint again, it will wear you down. And since such a condition (being "really" out of stamina and in need of a short rest up to some minutes to get back to normal) would provoke suicidal actions in RO's short life-time of a soldier just like wounding-effects (shot in leg: only crawl, etc. etc. yalla yalla) the stamina system is just as it is.

The stamina system is not unrealistic or wrong, the scale just matches the (compared to reality) lacking will of the soldier to rest and wait - and actually be glad about not being shot at for a while.

 

[MILK]

....I like the game as it is though, but there are times when you feel you can't really do anything about the situation you find yourself in, but you could IRL....

ok m8, I got the point... discussing does not hurt anybody ... so be it I just had feeling that you blame game for "something" instead of adapting to "system"... I was wrong...

And I totaly agree whit what I have quoted... there are many such things in RO, on the other hand these are only small part of game and it does not damage gameplay (probably only for player converting from other games)... RO is quite limited now in many ways and I just look in possible new TW game to see how they handle all that brainstorming we did here on forums...

 

[Cuddles]

I think that there are mutch importand things to add/improve than a addrenaline boost or a new stamina system.
Anyway soldiers walked and run before they even got into the battlefield. In RO you spawn in to the battlefield but IRL you have to walk for miles and miles and miles before you get to the battlefield and you are tired from all the walk and still you have the strentght to walk.

 

[elak]

In RO, your player becomes too tired to run after 17 seconds. I specifically remember sprinting a half mile when I was in high school, which took me well over two minutes. Now you can make the argument that soldiers were carrying too much gear and were underfed and blah blah blah... But the truth is that they don't carry anything that's unnecessary when they go in to combat. Furthermore, I was never as athletic as a trained soldier, so 17 seconds is just sad.

So, with that in mind, either greatly increase the time it takes to lose your breath, or just get rid of the silly stamina effects altogether.

There is a test in the swedish army where you are supposed to run a kilometer under 5 minutes in full combat gear (loaded weapon, loaded magazines, etc. A few extra kilos all in all). It's not hard to manage it under 5 minutes, but after half the distance we were all walking rather than sprinting. It's not really that you run out of breath as much as you can't get enough oxygene to your legs making it hard for them to carry you. Sure it takes longer than 17 seconds to get to this state, but RO captures it pretty well. You stagger on because you have to, but you're by all means not running.