Melee Attack with Fists
- Thread starter Chi
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Shovel bash. Or better jook away with a commando knife that appears in your hand shortly after you throw/drop your last weapon. I wouldn't want it included in your normal weapon cycle though.
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fists are fine i think.
shure, you can't kill a guy with one swing, but you can stun him so you can run away without getting extra ventilation-holes. maybe you could get a bigger chance to trigger the "weapon shot out of hand" event on you enemy when fighting with fists.
i don't understand how so many people can say that it will be unrealistic. if you run around in your trench and all of a sudden you bump into some enmy who sneaked in there, you both fire, you miss, he hits your gun (and you are realy close), nobody would run away. you turn around-he bolts and shoots you. you surrender-he bolts and shoots you and commences with the attack. you jump at him-he might shoot you, kick you away while charging, stab you or just knock you out with his rifle butt, but at least you have a fighting chance.
shure, you can't kill a guy with one swing, but you can stun him so you can run away without getting extra ventilation-holes. maybe you could get a bigger chance to trigger the "weapon shot out of hand" event on you enemy when fighting with fists.
i don't understand how so many people can say that it will be unrealistic. if you run around in your trench and all of a sudden you bump into some enmy who sneaked in there, you both fire, you miss, he hits your gun (and you are realy close), nobody would run away. you turn around-he bolts and shoots you. you surrender-he bolts and shoots you and commences with the attack. you jump at him-he might shoot you, kick you away while charging, stab you or just knock you out with his rifle butt, but at least you have a fighting chance.
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Ok its pretty much a settled, no matter what weapon, be it fists or spade or rubber duck, we want it to be a last ditch weapon. Not selectable in the weapons scrolling, only usable once the player has no weapons (grenades aside) as to cut down on the newbism that would follow, with unorganized boxing matches at the spawn and such. (ya hear that devs?)
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Oh no.
not this thread again...
It's dead! It's deeeeeaaad, leave it alone!
A situation, like the one you guys are talking about, is sooo rare that if I were a dev - I wouldnt even entertain the idea - given the time needed to make animations and run bug testing and so on.. It simply isnt going to add anything to the game.
This weekend, while haunting my favorite map (Danzig), my bolt was shot from my hands by another boltie. Both of my nades had already been used, so I literally had no weapon. I ran. He chased. I took him on a nice little tour of some building interiors while he unsuccessfully tried to hip me, over and over. I kept him in tow all the way back to my teammates.. who then shot him. I grabbed all of his gear and continued on.
Usually, if you dont panic and lose your head... you can manage to get another weapon - Not always, I agree, but often enough as to make shovels or punching, and the amount of required work for them to be realized, quite unnecessary.
Devs, if you decide to add punching or shovels - dont forget the Benny Hill music
not this thread again...
It's dead! It's deeeeeaaad, leave it alone!
A situation, like the one you guys are talking about, is sooo rare that if I were a dev - I wouldnt even entertain the idea - given the time needed to make animations and run bug testing and so on.. It simply isnt going to add anything to the game.
This weekend, while haunting my favorite map (Danzig), my bolt was shot from my hands by another boltie. Both of my nades had already been used, so I literally had no weapon. I ran. He chased. I took him on a nice little tour of some building interiors while he unsuccessfully tried to hip me, over and over. I kept him in tow all the way back to my teammates.. who then shot him. I grabbed all of his gear and continued on.
Usually, if you dont panic and lose your head... you can manage to get another weapon - Not always, I agree, but often enough as to make shovels or punching, and the amount of required work for them to be realized, quite unnecessary.
Devs, if you decide to add punching or shovels - dont forget the Benny Hill music
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i hear brass knuckles, truncheons or num-chucks and a throwing spear were standard issue during ww2. i still secretly crave a 3stoogies 2finger in the eyes move, but wont hold my breath waiting. those wise guy devs dont know what they're missing.
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hey, calm down. by saying that it was settled I was only stating that according to the people who actually want this implimented, they have come to a more structured opinion.
If you don't like this idea then I suggest not reading a forum about it, this is a space for those who are interested to share their ideas, and trying to make them feel bad wont change anything.
I don't understand why there always seems to be a jerk patrol going around every forum telling everyone why they are wrong, we are just sharing ideas here, we are not hurting anyone, breaking any laws or anything.
If you don't like this idea then I suggest not reading a forum about it, this is a space for those who are interested to share their ideas, and trying to make them feel bad wont change anything.
I don't understand why there always seems to be a jerk patrol going around every forum telling everyone why they are wrong, we are just sharing ideas here, we are not hurting anyone, breaking any laws or anything.
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My problem is that if no one stands against these types of implementations then they might just get added to the game. For a WWII simulation I personally think it has no place. I understand your view on it, but the situation requiring such an addition happens so rarely that it can't be considered necessary.
Remember, a soldier values his life, and therefore would not charge an armed opponent with their fists because of the slim chance that they could kill them and take their weapon.
There are also other options. You could run into a covered area, lose them in a building, call for help from nearby teammates, hide until someone dies near you and take their weapon. All I mean is that there are ways to stay alive long enough to gain another gun, and there is no NEED to create a boxing code for the 1 out of 100 times that you die this way.
Remember, a soldier values his life, and therefore would not charge an armed opponent with their fists because of the slim chance that they could kill them and take their weapon.
There are also other options. You could run into a covered area, lose them in a building, call for help from nearby teammates, hide until someone dies near you and take their weapon. All I mean is that there are ways to stay alive long enough to gain another gun, and there is no NEED to create a boxing code for the 1 out of 100 times that you die this way.
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I appreciate that. There are a lot of things ppl here have discussed on these forums that will never be in the game.
But I can't leave it alone.
I want to jook Russians with a knife like that one in RTCW, or smack Germans in the chops with a shovel, should i have no other option.
I want these items to appear in my hand when my last slug-thrower is dropped, either by being shot out my grasp or deliberately (i drop my pistol cos it's empty). Pick up a weapon again and it's gone.
I have no problem if the attack is made weak or inaccurate, and I know will probably get killed still but at least i had a go and might wound my killer with my dying efforts. Obviously if it couldn't be dealt with realistically then i wouldn't want it at all.
It's a pipe dream i know but that's just how I feel.
I might as well tell you lot cos my wife just doesn't get it.
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I can see where you are coming from stebbs, but I also agree with dogbadger in that there are some points where you are given 1 choice currently which is the let the enemy kill you. There will always be a place for running, and also not saying that Id do a bayonet charge with a shovel.
In my opinion there are just some times where in the game where you have no other option but to just let the enemy kill you (unless some close combat was implemented) and I'd rather go down beating some joker with a rock than just submit.
and I also in agree with dogbadger in that if It couldn't be put in game realistically, then I wouldn't want it at all (I don't want any CSS knife spinning)
In my opinion there are just some times where in the game where you have no other option but to just let the enemy kill you (unless some close combat was implemented) and I'd rather go down beating some joker with a rock than just submit.
and I also in agree with dogbadger in that if It couldn't be put in game realistically, then I wouldn't want it at all (I don't want any CSS knife spinning)
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REZ, a shovel was used and still is. During my time in the army I was taught how to fight with hands, bayo, rifle, rifle with bayo, shovel, helmet, sticks and stones. And yes, a shovel is an amazing weapon!
I too can see where you are coming from Stebbs, but it's not unrealistic at all... it's just dependant on the situation. Bolt vs bolt 2 metres apart? I'd throw my rifle after the first shot and charge the guy for sure. He wouldn't have time to get a good blow with the butt/bayo and I would have a good chance of survival. On the other hand if it was vs an SMGer, I'd throw my hands up
I too can see where you are coming from Stebbs, but it's not unrealistic at all... it's just dependant on the situation. Bolt vs bolt 2 metres apart? I'd throw my rifle after the first shot and charge the guy for sure. He wouldn't have time to get a good blow with the butt/bayo and I would have a good chance of survival. On the other hand if it was vs an SMGer, I'd throw my hands up
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it is wrong at this moment that when you have "all" your weapons away = granades trhown, gun shot out of your hands, than there is nothing you can do... only run or pick some gun on the ground BUT thats wrong... I am not saying what action should be there available (fist fight, showel, helmt, surender, sepuku, harakiri... whatever) but some definately should be there because than it is far more easier to type "suicide" in console than play... the point is that the some command (suicide) typed in console must not be more effective than action done ingame... and that is not good for gameplay...
just imagine situation where 3 players without gun cannot do anything to player with rifle... in RL these three could jump on him and punch him (maybe one would be shot but not all of them... one by one) but now they can only look and run.. thats wrong!
just imagine situation where 3 players without gun cannot do anything to player with rifle... in RL these three could jump on him and punch him (maybe one would be shot but not all of them... one by one) but now they can only look and run.. thats wrong!
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I certainly never said that shovels werent used or that soldiers werent trained to use them in certain situations..
but there is a big difference between using them in a close 'trench' situation where shooting your weapon could injure or kill your fellow soldiers, and whipping the thing out in the middle of a street somewhere only to go on the offensive with it..
Listen, I know I'm not far off of the mark when I say you guys enjoy the realism this game brings. But what I'm hearing is 'when your gun is shot from your hands, the shovel will be there for you to use' ...which sounds frighteningly close to how snipers and squad leaders magically *pop* have a blazing pistol in their hands after having been disarmed of their main weapon. Or how about when a nade magically replaces a persons firearm and they kill you because of it. This, I'm afraid, is so damn unrealistic and insanely frustrating that it bothers me you would even suggest such a thing.
I mean, could you imagine everytime you have the jump on somebody, even a lowly rifleman, and you are able to disarm him - he instantly and magically k'ocks your arse because a shovel *pop* appeared in his hands!? Could you imagine every single soldier on the field with this capability?
First, your arm(s) or hand(s) must be grossly injured from having your gun blown out of it. Then you're gonna tell me that you're gonna try and punch an armed enemy? or better yet - with your injured self, you're gonna fumble with the two belt buckles holding your shovel to your waist and then ready the spade for offensive use - all the while there is an enemy soldier armed with a loaded firearm right there? Cmon... its just a bad idea. This isnt Hollywood.
Hey, if the devs want to add a 5-8 second delay while the avatar tries to free his spade.. fine. I'll take that anyday because it would be closer to reality (actually it would take longer than 5 seconds to undo the straps and ready a spade when your hand or arm are injured) but then why have it at all? You're dead in that amount of time.
You cant always be on the offensive... to me, one of those grey shades of skill that makes a good player is not panicking when posed these types of situations... the good player, if possible, would escape and find another weapon on the battlefield. The good player isnt so totally focused on attack that he expects several levels of weapons or means of attack to fall back on so he can keep killing!!1.. sometimes you have to use your head and think outside of the box.
but there is a big difference between using them in a close 'trench' situation where shooting your weapon could injure or kill your fellow soldiers, and whipping the thing out in the middle of a street somewhere only to go on the offensive with it..
Listen, I know I'm not far off of the mark when I say you guys enjoy the realism this game brings. But what I'm hearing is 'when your gun is shot from your hands, the shovel will be there for you to use' ...which sounds frighteningly close to how snipers and squad leaders magically *pop* have a blazing pistol in their hands after having been disarmed of their main weapon. Or how about when a nade magically replaces a persons firearm and they kill you because of it. This, I'm afraid, is so damn unrealistic and insanely frustrating that it bothers me you would even suggest such a thing.
I mean, could you imagine everytime you have the jump on somebody, even a lowly rifleman, and you are able to disarm him - he instantly and magically k'ocks your arse because a shovel *pop* appeared in his hands!? Could you imagine every single soldier on the field with this capability?
First, your arm(s) or hand(s) must be grossly injured from having your gun blown out of it. Then you're gonna tell me that you're gonna try and punch an armed enemy? or better yet - with your injured self, you're gonna fumble with the two belt buckles holding your shovel to your waist and then ready the spade for offensive use - all the while there is an enemy soldier armed with a loaded firearm right there? Cmon... its just a bad idea. This isnt Hollywood.
Hey, if the devs want to add a 5-8 second delay while the avatar tries to free his spade.. fine. I'll take that anyday because it would be closer to reality (actually it would take longer than 5 seconds to undo the straps and ready a spade when your hand or arm are injured) but then why have it at all? You're dead in that amount of time.
You cant always be on the offensive... to me, one of those grey shades of skill that makes a good player is not panicking when posed these types of situations... the good player, if possible, would escape and find another weapon on the battlefield. The good player isnt so totally focused on attack that he expects several levels of weapons or means of attack to fall back on so he can keep killing!!1.. sometimes you have to use your head and think outside of the box.
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I totally get what you guys are saying, but i have a couple of problems with the fist/shovel idea.
1st: How often is a weapon shot out of your hands? It happens to me maybe once a round, if that. When it does happen i am either far enough away from the shooter to reclaim my weapon or too close to even think about anything else but to try and get away, but before i can even move I am either stuck with a bayo or quickly finished off with another shot. So I just don't see the need for another weapon for a situation that happens so rarely. If this happened every other time I get shot I would probably feel differently, but it's ususally just a lucky shot by someone.
2. Even if it was put in the game, how many strikes would it take to kill someone? 8 or 9 fist strikes? 4 or 5 shovel strikes? Also, since a bayo can strike from around 5 feet away, the idea of charging someone with either seems a bit farfetched. I'm not saying it's not or hasn't been used as a weapon, but I don't think that in real life it would be your first reaction. Since we know that we will respawn in a matter of seconds, we don't value our soldier's life, which actually encourages a lot of reckless behavior as it is, which seems to me to stand in opposition to the idea of a simulation, vs a gamey run 'n' gun where everyone just charges blindly into the fight.
I doubt that's what anyone wants this game to become, and that's what I fear these types of additions would do.
1st: How often is a weapon shot out of your hands? It happens to me maybe once a round, if that. When it does happen i am either far enough away from the shooter to reclaim my weapon or too close to even think about anything else but to try and get away, but before i can even move I am either stuck with a bayo or quickly finished off with another shot. So I just don't see the need for another weapon for a situation that happens so rarely. If this happened every other time I get shot I would probably feel differently, but it's ususally just a lucky shot by someone.
2. Even if it was put in the game, how many strikes would it take to kill someone? 8 or 9 fist strikes? 4 or 5 shovel strikes? Also, since a bayo can strike from around 5 feet away, the idea of charging someone with either seems a bit farfetched. I'm not saying it's not or hasn't been used as a weapon, but I don't think that in real life it would be your first reaction. Since we know that we will respawn in a matter of seconds, we don't value our soldier's life, which actually encourages a lot of reckless behavior as it is, which seems to me to stand in opposition to the idea of a simulation, vs a gamey run 'n' gun where everyone just charges blindly into the fight.
I doubt that's what anyone wants this game to become, and that's what I fear these types of additions would do.
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Rez + stebbs - well reasoned arguments with good valid points , you are both right.
Knives it is then!
Knives it is then!
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I just put that number in there to compare it to the bayonet, which kills in 1 or 2 strikes, but that's exactly what worries me. If this were put in at such strength, what would keep people from dropping their primary weapon to go charging around the battlefield with the shovel raised above their head? Because you know that's exactly what would happen.
Thanks Dogbadger, i appreciate your even handed response, and if alternate weapons could be put in without taking away from the original intent of the game (mainly teamwork and capping objectives) then i would be ok with it. But I really worry about the negative consequences.
I also agree with REZ that it's not always about going on the offensive; sometimes you have to retreat, and sometimes you lose your weapon by sheer dumb luck. It doesn't mean (at least to me) that there should be an infinite number of other weapons as backup if it happens, and that you should be able to attack no matter what.
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I agree with having a melee weapon. Much too many times have I either ran out of ammo, lost my weapon and had to leave in a hurry with no replacement firearm, or was in a position to subdue the enemy and the butt of an MP40 just doesn't do the trick all the time.
I vote for either bayonet, trench knife, or shovel...and not as a last resort weapon. A melee weapon that can be used at anytime. It was realistically used, albeit not all of the time, but there were occassions as there are in-game when the need arises for such things. If there are repeated Rambo knifings without a propensity towards teamwork or squad-based tactics, boxing matches as one person put it, or otherwise...kick them!!!
Just my 2 cents worth
I vote for either bayonet, trench knife, or shovel...and not as a last resort weapon. A melee weapon that can be used at anytime. It was realistically used, albeit not all of the time, but there were occassions as there are in-game when the need arises for such things. If there are repeated Rambo knifings without a propensity towards teamwork or squad-based tactics, boxing matches as one person put it, or otherwise...kick them!!!
Just my 2 cents worth
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