• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

So, i bought this game about 30 days ago...

kess

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 23, 2006
3
0
seems like a very fun game, but i have two questions for the company that created it.

#1. When was the last time the VAC security was updated to circumvent the hackers?

#2. When is the next scheduled update for VAC?

after playing day of defeat and BF1942 for a numer of years (16 year gamer here), and watching how after 3 or 4 months the hackers figure out how to work around the anticheat software unless their thrown off by another update, and now over the last month watching the hacking reach epidemic proportions on a number of RO servers, id like to know did i waste my money here? or will VAC be getting an update soon?
 
VAC is rarely needed for RO, I'll bet. Good admins are the key.

Plus, no one (to my knowledge) hacks in RO.

ya as far as I know there are no hacks in ROOST. The upside to being a very small community is that hackers arent generally drawn to it. Most events that appear or mioght look to be a hack can be explained in a few simple ways.

1. There bots, the bots have super amazing aim that no real player could have. So if you getting shot and it seems to good to be true, they might be bots.

2. A real player using an exploit. An exploit is not a hack but a error in the map of the game itself which allows players to do things a real person could not. The best example is clipping through walls when leaning or hills or something like that.


So yoy say the hacking is out of control but I and I think most players havent seen this hacking yet. So take screen shots, videos. Collect proof of what the hack is doing and show TWI that there are hackers and there is a need to update VAC. Without this proof is all rumor and you cant make a patch or update VAC to combat a hack based on a rumor and since you wouldnt know what to update it with.
 
Upvote 0
I doubt Valve would say when they updated VAC anyway; It makes you think that it's continually updated...

There's been discussion on a similar topic with Windows Updates; Microsoft explains what the patch or fix is designed to prevent, but in doing so, they're also publicly declaring the exploit or bug in the code. I've not suspected anyone of hacking in RO. Many times, they're just hidden in a good spot.
 
Upvote 0
VAC is rarely needed for RO, I'll bet. Good admins are the key.

Plus, no one (to my knowledge) hacks in RO.



heheh, no offense bud, but thats extremely niave, in just over the last month ive seen speed hacks, wall hacks, aim-bots, radars, recoil/breathing removal hacks, pretty much the usual fair that was present in DOD and BF1942. punk buster worked very well for BF1942, at least when it was regularly updated, once they ceased with the updates it turned into a circus.

so then, my next question would have to be, what the hell is VAC for then? a hollow/false assurance sales tool? i mean punkbuster did its job, it was there and it performed its intended function (if only for 3 or 4 months after its last update). Why would the RO people bother mentioning this VAC setup if it serves no function whatsoever?

and yes, some wall hacks can definately be explained as just exploits, BF had similar exploits. Of course then there are the wall hacks where people come bailing around the corner and open up on you as they are turning the corner hitting you dead on in a specific part of a room, as if they already knew exactly where you were at (Ive seen that one a fair amount from certain players). theres a video on you tube of a guy sniping the crap out of people on danzig, the funny thing is, if you look past the sniping part, you realize hes staying in iron site mode for some long periods and yet is not having to deal with the breathing swaying.... hell i can shoot every bit as acurate as that, if i didnt have the breathing to contend with... anyways, the funny thing is its a dead give away of a hack in use (if youve actually played RO, otherwise its just some nice shooting to those not in the know).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
heheh, no offense bud, but thats extremely niave, in just over the last month ive seen speed hacks, wall hacks, aim-bots, radars, recoil/breathing removal hacks, pretty much the usual fair that was present in DOD and BF1942. punk buster worked very well for BF1942, at least when it was regularly updated, once they ceased with the updates it turned into a circus.

Speed hacks: PROOF, we need it. I have heard the rumors but have yet to see a video of it.

Wall Hacks: I have never suspected anyone of wall hacking, maybe there just good players. But it could also and is most likely clipping.
I would also like to add something that could disprove the wall hack idea: Ok when we think of call hacks we may think of the guy with a rifle tracking you through a wall from across the map and shooting you through that wall. Well that cant happen in ROOST and no hack or mod or program can change that (well unless its on the server). ROOST doesnt have bullet penitration so bullets hit a surface and stop, doesnt matter if its 1mm thick or 10in thick Bullets cant pass through objects. So if your so convinced of a wall hack, then why. did someone can out and know exactly where you were (if you can think of the spot so can someone else and someone else has most likely already done it. I would imagin you were getting shot through walls and you assumed wall hacker. No, its clipping, part of your body was sticking out of the wall and another player was using this exploit (not hack) to kill you. He shot the part of your body that was explosed. This is a game error and exists in almost all FPS games to different degrees

aim-bots: Good player or a bot, I would put my money on the second one

Radars: huh, i dont really understand this one but I have an idea and that idea leads me to believe its just a good player who knows the maps and where to check when clearing a room or searching. You said you have only played the game for 30 days, well some of the maps are from teh mod and some are from release. So a vet player could have been playing these same maps for 9 months to several years more then you.

Recoil/breath hacks: These are errors in the game which the player has no control over. The no recoil think happens when certain players are running low FPS and there is a mod which servers can run out there that does the same thing. and breath hacks, this seems more like another error then a hack.

Also punkbuster didnt work that well but the idea of it made people believe they were safe from hackers and thats why its so popular. If someone called you a hacker with PB running then you just say, well I cant be PB is on this server. But PB only worked by stopping existing hacks. meaning a hack is developed and released, players use it, a good player or PB employee notices the new hack and they develop and release a fix to prevent that hack from being used again. Then repeat the again and again and again. So PB was always a few weeks behind the hackers. (I dont know if thats how VAC works)


I think people in general are too quick to declare that there are hackers out there. Many people seem to forget that it could be an error, there a good player, I screwed up, maybe I'm really not that good and they just know the map or something else. I mean most of what you suggest sounds like things that are not hacking but bots on high settings, good players who know the maps and know where people hide, clipping (this means part of your body was sticking through a wall and all the others players could see where you where, they could also shoot the part of you sticking through the wall), or errors in the game.

The only thing that could be a hack is the soo called speed back but I havent seen thing and no one has provided proof of this, it could even be a bug, lag or any number of things. We need to stop suspecting the worst of ever situtation and start rationally viewing events.

Kess: I am sorry if I sounded like a jerk in this post, that was not my intention but many new players claim people are hacking which out looking into the situtation looking at the most likely cause (bots, game errors or good players).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Nobody hacks in RO. You are witnessing any one of 3 things; a bug, an exploit, or a lag induced anomaly.

For instance, I have a very flaky piece of crap wireless connection that likes to give me connection interruptions on a regular basis. As a result my character will be stationary for upwards of 5 seconds, and then teleport roughly 30 meters or so. Not a speed hack, just lag.

I play RO very very avidly and have not witnessed a hack once.
 
Upvote 0
Kess, I have never seen a hack in RO and I have been playing since its out.

Do not call people naive.

As someone else said, the recoil is a bug.
There is a clipping issue sometimes exploited without even knowing you're exploiting...
I have not had a big problem against it.

The WORST thing that I see is a poor individual with a tiny brain that likes to TK for his sad idea of fun...

Yet its not as bad as other games.
 
Upvote 0
RO is pretty well clear of hacks IMHO. Honestly, I haven't run into anything that couldn't be explained objectively.
If there are hackers in the game, then they're not showing off very much. Which either means that they've changed their attitude drastically (not likely, check HALO, COD, BF-#whatever )...or we're being left alone.
I think it's the latter, whether it be due to VAC or a smaller community; we're beneath their radar...for the moment.:cool:
I really want RO to get more of a following, but I know that the damned cheats will be right behind any mainstream popularity that they attain.
It's inevitable for any online game.:mad:
 
Upvote 0
Seen no clear examples of cheating either.

Most of the issues you bring up are lag related or are inherent "bugs" in the UT2.5 engine, or (most probably) just really good players.

Hell I've been accused of cheating on a number of occasions, and it's mostly due to a combination of skill and luck. Someone once screamed that I was cheating "Arete cheats!! He has 100% accuracy in smoke!!" when I just hosed random shots into the smoke with the MG. Same thing when doing those "lucky" hipshots when entering a room where an ambushing SMG is waiting in a corner and I manage to get that perfect hipshot on them before they can fire.
 
Upvote 0
in RO there are regulary WTF!? moments
but if you think about it there is allways a reason
either the guy who ran around the corner allready shooting:
heard you, saw your weapon stick around the corner, saw your shaddow clip throught the wall, got it told by a teammate in TS or in ingamevoice, just pure luck or sense,....
sometimes i end up saying: WTF!? this just isnt possible but as i watch myself playing i do the exact same thing 10 minutes later

its allways easier to search the faults by other players or hacks than by yourself
 
Upvote 0
Right.
You have been playing RO for a month and you've "seen" all kinds of hacks...
Yet I've been playing since January and I have seen none...
Post a demo of someone hacking and I *might* believe you...
Keep in mind that some people that play RO have been playing since 1.0 of the UT2003 mod which is a long,long time...
 
Upvote 0
OMG y0u 4lL H4X, b00nzorz!!"!!!111!!!!eleven!one

Playing Red Orchestra for, well, about 2 1/2 years IIRC, I encountered numerous cheaters. In fact, in that span of time I encountered so many cheaters that I almost run out of fingers on one hand to count them.

Honestly: even if there are cheaters, they have so little impact on the game that you don't notice them anyways. So why panicking?
 
Upvote 0
Ive been playing since the mod at a competitive level against quite simply the best players in the game.

In all that time i was suspicious once and that was in our second match and we got owned! I've yet to see anything that cant be explained by good team comms, sound setup (for locating where shots are fired from), or knowing your there because your gun is poking through wall/window (happens more than people think. Not forgettin good old fashioned fluke.

Numerous times ive pulled off "impossible" shots just because the sheer amount of time played.

Also as a ladder supervisor i even checked for the availability of cheats (too see what i was up against) and the closest thing i got to a cheat was one forum someone asked for a hack and most replys said "no1 plays that game so theres no point" (or words to that effect).

After 30 days your still a newbie (no offense ment) but untill i see proof i stick by my no known cheats stance.
 
Upvote 0
the wall hacks where people come bailing around the corner and open up on you as they are turning the corner hitting you dead on in a specific part of a room, as if they already knew exactly where you were at (Ive seen that one a fair amount from certain players). theres a video on you tube of a guy sniping the crap out of people on danzig, the funny thing is, if you look past the sniping part, you realize hes staying in iron site mode for some long periods and yet is not having to deal with the breathing swaying.... hell i can shoot every bit as acurate as that, if i didnt have the breathing to contend with... anyways, the funny thing is its a dead give away of a hack in use (if youve actually played RO, otherwise its just some nice shooting to those not in the know).

How about getting some evidence before accusing people? Get a video making program and add suspects to your buddy list. Then change your name if you want (for paranoia purposes) and spectate them. You'll see they aren't 100% perfect. They just know the basics of the game, most of which is common sense or can be learned other fps's, and remember some people have played FPS's for a V long time:

*Look in the corners/usual camp spots as soon as you enter a room
*If you see theres someone in the cap zone with you (its not a full bar of your teams colour) get more cautious
*Learn the maps so you know where people camp at
*Reflexes are V important for getting the other guy first (obviously), even if he saw you first or was camping as you entered the room
*Know whats best to do in every situation..you can't get this until you played the game for a very long time
*Know when you have time to go to iron sight or a quick hip shot is needed or a bayo stab or nade
*Listen for enemies breath, footsteps etc (headphones are great for this).
*You would know this one from watching the training videos or reading the manual - you can rest your weapon to remove weapon sway..
*If you think there may be someone in a room, try to lean in first quickly to get an idea of where he is
*Also it helps to have a good mouse and mousemat of course

Now add all this together (and lots more probably) and theres no reason to assume a guy is cheating. Cheaters from my experience in other games aren't particularly bright and do it V obviously. Its way different looking at a cheat compared to a decent player. You will see good players doing all the above stuff. A cheat will usually spend some time looking at and shooting at walls and do things decent players won't do (like run straight into a room without looking in the corners). I can honestly say i've never seen a suspicious looking guy in RO since it went retail in March. And if there were cheats not all of them would be good at hiding it. Some would be blatently cheating.

So rather than assuming no one can be better than you in a game you only played for a month, practice more and learn from your mistakes, and remember some people just spend far too much time playing PC games :D so they are bound to end up good at them. Can you remember any names of "cheaters" btw?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0