IS 2 Versus M1 Abrams

[JudgeMental]

Disabeld means destroyed in tank vs tank combat. 80% of all tanks in any conflict are just disabeled. At least in a proper conflict like WW2

Oh dear.
Disabled in modern combat means, just that disabled. Destroyed means just that. In the UK army when one of our tanks is disabled we will send out our REME callsigns (Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers) in their 432's, Warrior repair vehicles and CRARRV recovery vehicles. We will either fix it, (often under fire) or recover it using CRARRV 24C callsign again often under fire. In some cases with the crew still in the vehicle fighting back and covering us. And as for 'proper' conflict...
Mate I was in the first Gulf War (Op Granby) and the second one (Op Telic) and they seemd pretty real and 'proper' to me.
I was in REME and involved in that sort of stuff. Jeez its amazing how many civvies are experts.

 

[Tomcat_ha]

You misunderstood what i ment. I ment a disabeled tank is not anymore usefull than a destroyed tank.

 

[[TW]schneidzekk]

Well if it is still able to shoot, it is kinda usefull imho

 

[BuddyLee]

Also, I wouldn't talk about crappy tanks when your tank with british armor and german gun falls prey on mere 70s-era RPG rounds.

Um... shoulder fired 70's era RPG's cannot destroy an Abrams maybe blow a track, or set the engine on fire... but the crew would certainly survive.

You must be referring to the larger truck/tripod mounted RPG, one of those could seriously damage any tank.

Soviet Tanks however fell prey to Shoulder Fired RPG's in Afghanistan.

 

[Johnny_Zarathus]

You must be referring to the larger truck/tripod mounted RPG, one of those could seriously damage any tank.

Truck mounted RPG? Do you people just make this stuff up as you go along?

 

[BuddyLee]

Truck mounted RPG? Do you people just make this stuff up as you go along?

Here you go, intarnOOb.

 

[Johnny_Zarathus]

Here you go, intarnOOb.

Well pardon me for not realizing that you were confusing recoilless rifles for rocket propelled grenade launchers. The recoilless rifle you've pictured, BTW, appears to be a Warsaw pact OG-9.

 

[{YBBS}Sage]

Ahem, not the MOST diplomatic reply matey

QFT. The reason: Mr. RSS takes every opportunity he can think of to US-bash. I'm personally sick of it.

Call me a cowboy all ya want. I do like to carry loaded guns.

@ Buddy: Yeah, I knew what you meant as soon as I read it. Vehicle-mounted RPG? Recoilless rifle... Pretty similar in how they work, though.

 

[Rss]

Um... shoulder fired 70's era RPG's cannot destroy an Abrams maybe blow a track, or set the engine on fire... but the crew would certainly survive.

You must be referring to the larger truck/tripod mounted RPG, one of those could seriously damage any tank.

Soviet Tanks however fell prey to Shoulder Fired RPG's in Afghanistan.

I've never claimed that old warheads of RPG-7 would totally destroy M1, only disable it (track blown off, engine kill, gun penetration ect.).

But yes, recoilless guns are very potent, especially with tandem HEATs. Rather easy to conceal, decent range and with good rounds, lethal. Not in the class of late soviet/russian ATGMs though. BTW, that's SPG-9, not OG-9. OG-9 is HE round for SPG.

 

[Bolt]

Taking over the country was run-over and keeping it "as they want" is even more easier. Talibans will never rise again.

Read some info about the situation, you will be surprised. If even NATO generals admit that it's a pretty screwed situation, that i think it REALLY is.

The most senior British military commander in Afghanistan today described the situation in the country as "close to anarchy"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,,1826303,00.html

Afghanistan currently has about 30,000 soldiers in its army and 60,000 lesser-equipped police. Its defense minister believes a Western plan to increase the army's size to 70,000 is insufficient and that at least double that number is needed.

NATO's top commander on Thursday urged allied nations to send reinforcements to war-ravaged southern Afghanistan, where resurgent Taliban militants are inflicting heavy casualties on foreign forces and captured a remote town from police for the second time in two months.

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2...hehindu/holnus/003200609071654.htm&frame=true

 

[RedGuardist]

"Major difficulities" lol.

Taking over the country was run-over and keeping it "as they want" is even more easier. Talibans will never rise again.

Yep. This is not talk of a man who knows something about the situation.

And sadly Taliban grows stronger everyday. You know they pay twice as good salary as the governements army and police does.

And ordinary people are ready to support everyone, who can guarantee food and safety. Even if that someone orders women to wear burghas and says that listening music is a sin and from satan.

Sad but very understandable, if you are hungry and cold.

This was very of topic. Sorry.

 

[BSE|Vietcong]

I have heard, that many M1 drive with the gun pinted at the back (i.e. reversed turret) to avoid damage to the gun barrel. The then exposed back of the turret is weak and can be penetrated by a low-tech RPG.

Can somebody confirm this?

I also heard about an Abrams, that was penetrated by a 7mm projectile, that entered and left the vehicle with ease. DER SPIEGEL, a german magazine, mentioned that it could have been a railgun, judging from the projectile and the needed impulse.

Has somebody pieces of information on that?

 

[Tomcat_ha]

I can guess that the turret being slung back is taken from how abrams are when being shipped.

And there was a story of something going right through the abrams. What it was nobody knows. It does seem to be true.

 

[{YBBS}Sage]

I can guess that the turret being slung back is taken from how abrams are when being shipped.

And there was a story of something going right through the abrams. What it was nobody knows. It does seem to be true.

Turret is slung back when shipped, maybe slung back for other transport, but it's always forward in a "hot" area.

Yep, I've seen the report on that, too, long ago. Went in from the side. IIRC, it still didn't produce a casualty?

I don't remember it going all the way through, though. IIRC, it only punched into the interior, messed some equipment up, and that's about it.

Very mysterious.

 

[BuddyLee]

Link plz. I want to read it.

 

[Elysium]

A rail gun? Has that been invented yet?

 

[BuddyLee]

A rail gun? Has that been invented yet?

I believe they have one in Livermore, but the power supply is so huge, and power consumption is so high, that they can't make it portable. They fire a tungsten bolt iirc.

 

[Elysium]

I believe they have one in Livermore, but the power supply is so huge, and power consumption is so high, that they can't make it portable. They fire a tungsten bolt iirc.

Had the Germans had more time I'm sure they would've invented it.

 

[JudgeMental]

Had the Germans had more time I'm sure they would've invented it.

And equally certain, Hitler would have insisted it could not be used operationally until it also made the firer an ersatz coffee and turned his bootlaces to gold.

 

[Tak]

Rail guns are around. The energy required to make them work though means that they're not practical for military purposes. All of them I've seen have been either mounted to trains (with one car holding the gun, another holding the powersupply) or fixed in one spot. My friends and I made a small one out of some metal pipe, a nail with the head clipped off, and a battery charge station. Awesome science project as it demonstrated the principles behind it, but the naily only kind of 'poofed' out of the pipe a few feet. Fearsome weapon
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