Making Kaukasus balanced

[{Core}Steven]

Making Kaukasus balanced:

I have played in a number of clan wars on this map, and its great fun,
but the map really is one sided towards the Allies. It doesnt take too much organisation from the Allies to setup
an almost indestructable defence on this map.

The Allies have the height advantage almost all the time and can sit tight and pick off the Axis guys.
One area that is particulary bad is between the Back Route and Tower.
This is generally a massacre here (albeit very fun when your allies).

Suggestions:

Not all to be used, but things that might improvement balance:

1. Don't allow Allies to shoot from CY into BR area (high walls, remove paths etc)
2. Area between BR and TR more covered
3. Don't allow MG's for Allies (oh how this would change the map lol)
4. Increase the Mortars cap zone to the bottom of the hill. This would force the Allies out of hiding.
5. Same goes for Tower Area. Have some of the capzone lower down to smoke the Allies out from hiding.
6. Sniper for Axis... This might easily fix most of the balance issues?

 

[[5thW]Rehakles[TRO]]

mmmm, I lost on Kauk in a clan-match, so I know it is possible

my suggestion would be: Remove Steven from the opposite team...

Seriously, it can be pretty frustating to play as axis, I would like to see the changes first before I decide if I like them or not.....But yea, the Germans should have at least one approach that cant be covered from above...would make a change, I guess....

...and while we

 

[worluk]

mmmm, I lost on Kauk in a clan-match, so I know it is possible

my suggestion would be: Remove Steven from the opposite team...

Seriously, it can be pretty frustating to play as axis, I would like to see the changes first before I decide if I like them or not.....But yea, the Germans should have at least one approach that cant be covered from above...would make a change, I guess....

...and while we

 

[MILK]

kaukasus would maybe need some balancing, but instead of changing this good map new one, more balanced, would be nice

 

[Sgt._Geist]

Kauakasus is VERY balanced... it comes down to your clans strategy and working together... and the only things the Allies have an advantage on is reinforcements.. they have some more men..

Kaukasus is balanced because I can play both sides and win the map....

Now if your playing on a ****ty map like Rakowice.. I could understand about it being unbalanced because the allies blow on the map... and it is near impossible to win allies on it...

 

[slyder73]

Making Kaukasus balanced:

I have played in a number of clan wars on this map, and its great fun,
but the map really is one sided towards the Allies. It doesnt take too much organisation from the Allies to setup
an almost indestructable defence on this map.

The Allies have the height advantage almost all the time and can sit tight and pick off the Axis guys.
One area that is particulary bad is between the Back Route and Tower.
This is generally a massacre here (albeit very fun when your allies).

Suggestions:

Not all to be used, but things that might improvement balance:

1. Don't allow Allies to shoot from CY into BR area (high walls, remove paths etc)
2. Area between BR and TR more covered
3. Don't allow MG's for Allies (oh how this would change the map lol)
4. Increase the Mortars cap zone to the bottom of the hill. This would force the Allies out of hiding.
5. Same goes for Tower Area. Have some of the capzone lower down to smoke the Allies out from hiding.
6. Sniper for Axis... This might easily fix most of the balance issues?

I have played both sides and won and lost both sides about equally as much. I think the map is one of the most balanced maps there is. The indestructable wall of defense you mention is possible only if the Allies have good teamwork and the Axis do not.
This map requires good teamwork and coordination, and it's fine for either side. Even that Mortar approach from the bottom Axis spawn ravine. Last night again the three of us Allies who had the indefensible wall set up were overwhelmed by good teamwork. The Germans laid smoke in a consecutive line to cover the distant approach then at the bottom of the path they'd grouped up and waited...then all rushed at once with more smoke, though spread out so as not to get all naded. The usual group of riflemen up top could not stop them. The suggestion to move the cap into the bottom would just allow the Axis to cap from smoke cover without a lot of threat or effert. As the map is, it takes a lot of work to cap a point. This is good.
When this doesn't work, the Back Route, then the Tower is easy to get if the Axis coordinate.
Last night I was playing on the Allies for a while and the teamwork was so bad at one point when I tried to use VOIP to organize a retake of the Back Route when it was capped, I was told by one guy that "I"m just here to shoot people, you do what you want and I"ll do what I want." I instantly switched teams and as the Germans we totally overwhelmed them and won that round.
The map is perfectly balanced, and winning does not depend on map conditions, it depends on the amount of teamwork demonstrated by both sides.

 

[{Core}Steven]

My opinions are based for Clan Wars only.

Public play is completely different in my experience.
The easy way to show its not balanced is when weaker clans can defend against the better clans on the map without breaking a sweat.

 

[[5thW]Rehakles[TRO]]

Lyez can be won by both sides, far easier than Kauk imo.

off topic, I know: I wasnt saying that Lyes is unbalanced, only that its the worst out of the 15 stock-maps. It just feels like Cod2 with differant graphic, Spray and Pray at its best....

=>Kaukasus might be unbalanced, but its one of the best maps in RO imo, coz you have some range to use your rifle, and it doesnt play like any other shooter out there, it feels kind of "unique" (well, I hope you know what I mean...)

 

[{Core}Steven]

Yup Kauk is a real classic.
Just suggesting a few small tweaks to level it out for clan play.

 

[Crusher]

I think Kaukasus is one of the best balanced maps I know for RO. Although a sniper for the axis wouldn't hurt

 

[Fu. Svedberg]

Now if your playing on a ****ty map like Rakowice.. I could understand about it being unbalanced because the allies blow on the map... and it is near impossible to win allies on it...

WOHA! Rakowice is well balanced as long as the allies attack the objectives and communicate. (I have probably seen the allies win slightly more then axis even)

To get back on topic I tend to agree with worluk that the biggest problem on Kaukasus is the courtyard when you play as germans. But meh I have also seen both teams win.

 

[BeserkWraithlor]

Germans need a sniper for Kaukasus, and I agree with number 4, but thats about it, I won Kaukasus with Germans plenty of times, mostly by sneaking into the tower, sniping all the Russians, and win by capping!

 

[AKA]

As long as each side plays equal time as each side then its always going to be balanced, for clan matches at least.

I dont mind playing the disadvantaged team, in fact i usually prefer picking the underdog.

 

[melipone]

Doesn't smoke in the valley make attacking the Tower pretty easy? Just do suicide runs as the commander, always putting smoke in the valley. Never played in clan wars, but would have thought that with smoke it would be quite balanced. Now I agree taking the CY is probably nearly impossible againsts decent campers, but smoke in the right place will even things up again I think. To start with you need to get it so they can't shoot you from the walls - so 1 on covering the right side wall, one on the left and then attack (maybe suicide for more smoke first?), then choose an entrance and spam smoke in there. I reckon the little hole in the right and left are the best places - enough smoke in the CY covering the right hole should allow you to just sprint straight through into the tower.

I think Less nades would help though on that map for both teams - no nades for rifleman would really improve the gameplay imo.
​

 

[Ristus]

As always, unless the map is harder for the soviets, it's not going to get modified.

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

My opinions are based for Clan Wars only.

Public play is completely different in my experience.
The easy way to show its not balanced is when weaker clans can defend against the better clans on the map without breaking a sweat.

its like playing soccer on rainy days, its always a advantage for the worse team.

Some maps will always be harder to win for the one or other team. Kaukasus is alright how it is, by times a hard job for germans (as you say, particularly in a clan match), but its really not that anyoing if you ask me. Just a bit harder.

 

[Maus]

The maps fine now. Although a sniper would be a nice addition... it really is a devastating offensive weapon.

 

[slyder73]

Yup Kauk is a real classic.
Just suggesting a few small tweaks to level it out for clan play.

It's more important for a map to be good play and balanced for full 32 person servers than for 8 vs 8 mathces (I'm assuming thats what you mean).
That being said, Kaukasus is fine for that too. Again, in clan play, it will also be the most organized clan who will win. The one whose plan is practiced, exectued by everyone together with different stages. Well organized clans with a plan can win as both sides.

As for the addition of a sniper rifle I've seen peopel suggest. I think people just see a big open map and think that they'd love to snipe on it, or they might be good snipers and like to get the rifle but don't think how the sniper rifle would cause the map to be unbalanced. Think of how much power and control over the narrow routes a sniper would have, or how a sniper could clear defense that is bunched up a narrow route. The hard won fights for cap points would disappear into a snipe fest and eveyrone else holding back in the courtyard or not able to advance at all if the Russians had one.

 

[Silky_Slim]

I think kaukinass is supposed to be favored for the russians, seeing as they have the high ground.

It's still can be an easy win for the germans, it's all about teamwork.

 

[BeserkWraithlor]

Yup, what he said. Too bad everybody likes to be on the defensive, and they start team stacking. (especially Danzig and Kaukasus).