If Americans were in RO...

[Afterburner]

At what levels were the BAR, m1919 and mg42 distributed?

I dont see the Mg42 at a squad level, but I do see it at a platoon level. Same goes for the m1919

But I dont see the BAR as a platoon level weapon, I see it as a squad level weapon, you know, like a Squad Automatic Weapon.


If its set up that way, one American platoon would have 3 BARS, a m1919, and an assortment of weapons, whereas a German platoon would have one mg42 and an assortment of weapons?


So really, what were weapon structures for squads and platoons?

I'm fairly certain that at the platoon level a German platoon would have two MG42s, and then an assorment of Mp40s and Kar98ks, mostly. Unlike int he American army the MP40 was distributed fairly widely to troops besides squad or platoon leaders, especially later in the war.

 

[EvilHobo]

The MG was a squad level weapon in the German army. Every squad was issued one, if I recall correctly.

 

[BeserkWraithlor]

I also recall that Germans had better SMG's than Americans, (American Soldiers replaced there Thompsonswith captured Mp40s, because it was more accurate, and had less recoil), and the STG44 must be the best weapon overall, but does the M1 Carbine have any competition?

 

[Afterburner]

I also recall that Germans had better SMG's than Americans, (American Soldiers replaced there Thompsonswith captured Mp40s, because it was more accurate, and had less recoil), and the STG44 must be the best weapon overall, but does the M1 Carbine have any competition?

Replacing Thompson with Mp40? Most defintly not. Generally speaking the Americans stuck with their own weapons because it was incredibly hard to find ammo for German weapons. The Thompson wasn't designed to be accurate, it was basically another supression weapon, used to throw up as much lead as possible, and it was damn good at it too. I never hear anything but praise from American soldiers for all their guns.

 

[Bat Guano]

BAR is definitely not in the same category as STG. BAR would be more equivalent to the DP but a little handier and with a smaller magazine - only 20 rounds. In RO I could imagine the BAR being like the DP but allowing some kind of undeployed use - it could be deployed like a DP but you could fire it undeployed with some kind of penalty, like the MG34 and DP can be hip fired with penalties both to movement and accuracy.

The M1 carbine would actually be a pretty close equivalent to the STG but without full auto capability. The round it fired is only a little less powerful. The M1 carbine round is closer in power to the STG round than the STG round is to the standard rifles. Both fill a niche between SMGs and full power rifles.

 

[Alyosha]

The MG 42/34 was most certainly a squad level weapon, it was in fact squads backbone. German squads were usually composed of between 10-14 men, with the usual number being 12. Of these 12, 1 was an officer with an SMG, one an NCO with a Kar98k or occasionally an smg (later the G-43, if it was available). Two men crewed the MG 42, with the officer directing fire. Everyone else had a bolt and took up positions on the sides of the mg. This was the typical set up throughout the war, and was rarely altered (one reason germans were so adverse to urban warfare was the necessary dissolution of the mg based squad system and creation of ad-hoc formations).

Concerning the STG44, very very few were ever sent to the Western front. Somewhere around 85% went to the eastern front. Also, the BAR was the american equivalent of an lmg.

Hope this helps. Soviets are the ones with really interesting squad organization, though

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

Replacing Thompson with Mp40? Most defintly not.

most def.

Ammo for the mp40 was abundant back then and the gun was more accurate and I believe more reliable. I've heard quite a few stories of soldiers dropping their weapons for mp40s. I'm sure there are plenty of pictures. And who cares if the thompson was for "supressing" because it wasn't, the BAR was for supressing. The thompson was for closing in on the enemy, it had two advantages over the mp40, it fired faster and had a larger round. The larger round could down the enemy faster and since you could shoot faster you can get more lead out, but you sacrified accuracy and the gun occasionaly jammed. The mp40 balanced all factors; weight, rate of fire, caliber, accuracy. In the end it all came down to personal preference.

 

[Sasha_Suvorov]

Unless I'm horribly misinformed, I believe the MkIII and its variants (specifically the StuG versions) were the MOST produced armored fighting vehicles of the war by the Germans. Pretty early on they realized the economy of producing turretless tank detroyers and churned them out by the thousands, equipping some armored units almost exclusively with StuG's. Even older versions of the StuGIII were more than a match for most American and British tanks; only the difficulties of keeping them supplied led to their eventual defeat. The MkIII series itself was produced pretty much from the beginning of the war through to the end.

The STG wasn't put into production soon enough or in enough numbers to really give the Germans enough of an advantage IMO.

 

[Afterburner]

most def.

Ammo for the mp40 was abundant back then and the gun was more accurate and I believe more reliable. I've heard quite a few stories of soldiers dropping their weapons for mp40s. I'm sure there are plenty of pictures. And who cares if the thompson was for "supressing" because it wasn't, the BAR was for supressing. The thompson was for closing in on the enemy, it had two advantages over the mp40, it fired faster and had a larger round. The larger round could down the enemy faster and since you could shoot faster you can get more lead out, but you sacrified accuracy and the gun occasionaly jammed. The mp40 balanced all factors; weight, rate of fire, caliber, accuracy. In the end it all came down to personal preference.

Care to back this up? I mean I know the MP40 is a good gun but I have never seen a picture with Americans fighting with any kind of German weapon(I seem to recall seeing one sort of "vixtory pose" picture taken at the end of the war where one American had a MP40, but no combat photos), or provide a reliable first-hand account, as I've never read about an Americans dropping their weapons and using German weapons instead.

The main reason is why should you use aa foreign weapon that you might not be able to get ammo for, when you have millions upon millions of rounds of ammuniton being produced for your domestic gun.

 

[USMC_Recruit]

Unless I'm horribly misinformed, I believe the MkIII and its variants (specifically the StuG versions) were the MOST produced armored fighting vehicles of the war by the Germans. Pretty early on they realized the economy of producing turretless tank detroyers and churned them out by the thousands, equipping some armored units almost exclusively with StuG's. Even older versions of the StuGIII were more than a match for most American and British tanks; only the difficulties of keeping them supplied led to their eventual defeat. The MkIII series itself was produced pretty much from the beginning of the war through to the end.

Sasha, I'm talking about the Sturmgewehr44, also called STG44 or MP44. Not the Stug.

@ Snayperskaya, Let me rephrase what I meant. The Americans (and I should add the British as well), bombed the Germans into submission, therefore greatly helping out the Russians. That's what I meant by "Air War," I should have stated it better.

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

The main reason is why should you use aa foreign weapon that you might not be able to get ammo for, when you have millions upon millions of rounds of ammuniton being produced for your domestic gun.

First off the ammo for your thompson isn't always going to make it to you, for instance the trucks carrying the ammo in your area get bombed, or the roads are icey and they can't make it. However the mp40 ammo is already there and the mp40 was an abundant gun, and as stated before many soldiers were equiped with it, so after over running an area the ammo would be there as well, not to mention you can get it off dead bodies.

I watched a show on the history channel about the MP40 and they interviewed men who said they along with others dropped their tommy for a mp40. They provided lots of pictures and even a video. This is a little snippet from wikipedia

American soldiers often switched their Thompsons and Grease Guns for MP40s. Since the rate of fire was low, the recoil of the weapon was more manageable, making it more accurate.

 

[Sasha_Suvorov]

Ahhhh I stand corrected- the thought proceses of a tread-head are evident!

BTW, USMC_Recruit...ARE you going into the Marines, or have you been in? I ask because I myself am a former Marine having served from 81-84 at Lejeune and in Okinawa (Field Artillery- Corporal); following that I was in the Army from 86-92 at Ft Lewis, Fulda (Germany), and Ft Polk (Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Warfare Specialist- Sergeant).

 

[Colt .45 killer]

well just a few things to say, Darkest hour 1944 is a mod based on the normandy beaches with canadians , brits and americans. come by the websight sometime ( http://www.darkesthourgame.com/ ).

about tossing weaponry for enemy weaponry, that was more of a nam thing, due to how finicky the m16 was. ive never heard a story about american soldiers deliberatly using german guns in ww2, perhaps in a desperate situation while running low on ammo, a soldier would pick up an enemy weapon while keapin his own.

seeing as our mod is based on realism, i dont think this problem will arise as much. the distances will be nice and large, leveling off both rifles, when it gets up and close though, one bullet does as much as the next, however; for one person theres a bolt to action, the other, puling the trigger again.

 

[Jhaxavier]

If it we had today's mindset and pitted the Americans against the Germans, we'd lose. The Americans would lose 1000 men then chicken out and run, thus letting the Germans beat the hell out of them. Attrition ain't like what it used to be

Annnyway, in terms of weapon balance they'd probably do just as well as they did in the Western front. They'd probably excel in closer-range combat (semis), but their tanks, of course, fail at their job.

 

[USMC_Recruit]

Ahhhh I stand corrected- the thought proceses of a tread-head are evident!

BTW, USMC_Recruit...ARE you going into the Marines, or have you been in? I ask because I myself am a former Marine having served from 81-84 at Lejeune and in Okinawa (Field Artillery- Corporal); following that I was in the Army from 86-92 at Ft Lewis, Fulda (Germany), and Ft Polk (Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Warfare Specialist- Sergeant).

Thanks for your service Sasha, we need more people like you.
I'm going to MCRD San Diego in December, I'm not technically a "Recruit" i'm a "Poolee" but when I was setting up my account I figured "USMC_Recruit" sounds way better than "USMC_Poolee," and I got a letter in the mail from the Department of Defence and the attention written on it was to "Recruit [my name]".

Right now I'm just trying to get into as good of shape as I can get into and studying my General Orders. I can do 20 pull ups, but the sit ups and running are what I need to work on.

 

[crash]

The M1 Carbine was intended to be used by troops who were not issued rifles such as artillery crews, tankers, etc. Though the M2 carbine was select fire, it still wasn't much of an assault rifle. Given the choice, I'd rather than an StG44 simply for range and penetration.

Don't get me wrong, I love my M-1 carbine. It's great fun, but I'm under no illusions that it's anything but a hopped up pistol.

 

[Alyosha]

I've seen numerous pictures of american troopers carrying MP40's instead of thompsons, often with troops carrying thompsons right next to them. Also, I've talked to one veteran of Bastogne, a BAR man, who mentioned that he had a buddy who prefered the MP40 (he also always carried a guitar on his back, until it was run over by a halftrack). Also the M3 smg was largely modelled after the MP40, and as evidence of the abundance of 8mm parabellum rounds, was fitted with a reciever for german parabellem cartridges. So there was obviously alot of ammo lying around.

 

[Letum]

Just a little trivia....

The BAR was heavier than the MG42.
I would guess that this would make it hard to fire underplayed.

 

[SnozzFartz]

The M2 Carbine wasn't around until after WW2.

M1 Garand is accurate out to 2000 meters, and the BAR with it's longer barrel is even more accurate than the Garand. As far as I'm concerned, allies have the advantage on the squad-level with semi automatic and fully automatic firearms that are just as accurate as the German rifles. Germans do have the advantage with the light machine guns though.

Letum, not sure where you got your information but the BAR is most definitely NOT heavier than the Mg42.

 

[Ranari]

When I first began playing DoD:S, the MG42 would supress enemy infantry due to its fearsome sound file. But, as time went on, people realized it was just pixels and began ignoring it. It still does a pretty decent job of keeping infantry under cover, but only now, they've learned and fight back.

One thing we are forgetting here though is the technical superiority of German tanks over American tanks during the second world war. If we were to have RO:American Style! (tm), then I really don't see Shermans standing much of a chance against the more heavily armored and bigger gunned German tanks. I mean, we're talking players playing them - equal #s on each side and equal skill involved. Just doesn't seem like it'd be much fun.