Same. As I said the Tiger should rape the T-34s at anything but really close range, where it's slow turret speed comes into play. At long range it should pretty much be God.
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Tigers
- Thread starter RoclorD
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Same. As I said the Tiger should rape the T-34s at anything but really close range, where it's slow turret speed comes into play. At long range it should pretty much be God.
No it isn't, not in this game anyways.
IMO the way the panther's front armor is now is how the tigers should be (or at least be close to it). Anyone else agree?
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Not in the game it isn't. Atleast not as far as I've experienced. At range the armor seems to be about the right strength. I've seen a Tiger take as many as 15 or so hits before finnally getting knocked out. But the 88 rounds should rarely bounce off a T-34, unlike now how they commonly do so.
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I don't think that 88 round should bounce off that T-34. The T-34 was the Sherman of the Russians, when the Tiger and Panther came out.
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The T34 was one of the most revolutionary tanks of the war, if not all time. The sloped armor, powerful gun makes the T34/85 more than a match for the Tiger. I really don't think comparisions to the Sherman are at ALL legitimate. The Sherman was originally under-gunned, and under-armored all to hell. The T34 is neither.
I have a soft spot for the tiger, if only for reputation alone, but deep down I know that, all things (crew skill, etc) being equal, the T34/85 beats the Tiger out. All considered, it was a better design.
I have a soft spot for the tiger, if only for reputation alone, but deep down I know that, all things (crew skill, etc) being equal, the T34/85 beats the Tiger out. All considered, it was a better design.
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Keep in mind that one of the reason German armor is viewed in such a great light is there training and radios. Germany often had worse tanks but was still able to win because of there training and on the eastern front there communication.
Should the Tiger penitrate a t34, sometimes but not always. Its a good gun but the gun isnt everything, you can just roll into a fight and expect to win, tactics thats how its done.
That said I also agree with Crim that the Sherman has a bad reputation but it really was a good tank overall. It had to go up against a very high number of Tigers and Panthers in France which is where it got the bad reputation
Should the Tiger penitrate a t34, sometimes but not always. Its a good gun but the gun isnt everything, you can just roll into a fight and expect to win, tactics thats how its done.
That said I also agree with Crim that the Sherman has a bad reputation but it really was a good tank overall. It had to go up against a very high number of Tigers and Panthers in France which is where it got the bad reputation
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I know that. But read some of these memoirs of German tankers who fought in Tigers and you'll read that the Tiger's were knocking out the T-34's with single shots. When I made the comparison to the Sherman, I didn't mean it literally. They did have large production numbers and that is primarily how they won.
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HAHAHAHAHA! I love the pseudo tank experts.
1. The T34's armor is only 45mm thick on all sides. That is only difficult for a 37mm gun or a low velocity 50mm and 75mm.
2. The slope of it is irrelavant against a 75mm or 88mm APCBC round that is designed to chew through sloped armor.
3. The Sherman had more frontal armor then the T34.
4. 1 on 1 the Tiger would completely dominate the T34/85. The Tiger can knock out the T34 well past 2000 meters. Long before the T34 can get into effective range.
5. The 85mm gun was tested on russian steel, which varies in quality. Quality control was poor in the red army. The Tiger had the highest quality armor of WWII. Is there proof that the 85mm can penetrate a Tigers frontal armor at 1000 meters besides ballistics charts that don't take armor quality into account?
6. Like the sherman the T34 had numbers on its side. A lone T34 up against a Tiger is dead meat. There is a reason why German heavy tank battalions achieved kill ratios as high as 16-1 and that isn't just against T34's.
7. German tankers were trained better then the russians through the entire war. The russian tank training did get better as the war progressed, but it never reached the level of the Germans.
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"Sloped Armor" on the T-34 against the Tiger.
Yeah.
Kinda of like me sloping some cardboard while shooting it with a rifle. The bullet will just "bounce off".
Yeah.
Kinda of like me sloping some cardboard while shooting it with a rifle. The bullet will just "bounce off".
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your statement that the tiger has 200mm front armour disqualifies you for further discussions about tanks...
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The Tiger had UP TO 100mm frontal armour, and 80mm on the sides.
The IS-2 could penetrate the frontal armour of a Tiger 1 at ranges over 1000m.
The T34-85 could penetrate side armour of a Tiger 1 at 1000m on the side, frontal armour at around 800m.
The '76 was useless against a Tiger (Is there a map in RO that actually puts the '76 against the Tiger?)
To be honest the German tanks advantages lay in their use of tactics, and fighting at range. A Tiger could easily defeat a T34-85 when engaged at range. Something which isn't portrayed in RO at all.
The IS-2 could penetrate the frontal armour of a Tiger 1 at ranges over 1000m.
The T34-85 could penetrate side armour of a Tiger 1 at 1000m on the side, frontal armour at around 800m.
The '76 was useless against a Tiger (Is there a map in RO that actually puts the '76 against the Tiger?)
To be honest the German tanks advantages lay in their use of tactics, and fighting at range. A Tiger could easily defeat a T34-85 when engaged at range. Something which isn't portrayed in RO at all.
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And that's actually the problem: On Orel I have seen Tigers taken out from the front by T34/76s (iirc the T34 on Orel is the 76er version) while their own shells bounced off. And that is on ranges of at least 500m.
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this only happens, cause we have not realistic tanks nor realistic maps in game.
With a "more" accurate setting, you would see that a Tiger can deal with several T34/85 if needed.
The T34/85 is in most cases capable to deal with a Tiger, to penetrate and destroy him, the T34/85 was a updated design in 1944. But the Tiger would have with distance cause of his gun, even though when not so well placed armor-plates a advantage over the T34, we do not haev in game really.
88mm shells do richochet many times from T34 armor, when they should not and even with penetration you need very often a minimum of 2 shoots to destroy the T34. But with a faster reload and short distance (in game, compared to real tank battles), the Tiger loose near any advantage he has over the T34/85. Give the tiger the gun he had really, and you will see way more problems to kill tigers on the battlefield, if the crew is intelligent enough to use distance (if possible) as advantage.
oh and what i forgot to say. If you usethe Tiger without support on his flanks for charging, its YOUR foult when you loose the tiger. The tiger is really not a tank, for charge, not without enough support.
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Yeah, I just realized that I am an idiot for saying that. I was thinking of the Panzerfaust being able to penetrate the Tiger's front armor because it can theoretically penetrate 200mm.
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Are we playing the same game? Or do you mean by "hard" not being able to open up the hatches and hurl nades in and killing the crew firing from the vision slits?
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you have to be joking the tiger tank is now weak i know i always drive one from the day i got this game, they need to roll back to the last patch the tiger tank was ok then
also i most say i can take a t34 out with one shot most of the time, but the t34/76 with this new patch it has killed me with 2 shots to the front of my tiger this is silly ;-(
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Whew this thread stinks.
Red Orchestra does a good job of portraying the Tiger as a old tank and the Panther as the true German super tank. Mappers try their best to put T34/76s vs Tigers, but obviously no one knows how to use them effectively because they read too many books about how a German ace took out a battallion of tanks.
You don't read too many books about the Tigers that fell to simple tactics such as shooting the tracks, optics, and disabling the turret. But we can't have that, the Tiger is a superior tank even by todays standards!
Red Orchestra does a good job of portraying the Tiger as a old tank and the Panther as the true German super tank. Mappers try their best to put T34/76s vs Tigers, but obviously no one knows how to use them effectively because they read too many books about how a German ace took out a battallion of tanks.
You don't read too many books about the Tigers that fell to simple tactics such as shooting the tracks, optics, and disabling the turret. But we can't have that, the Tiger is a superior tank even by todays standards!
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Whew this thread stinks.
Red Orchestra does a good job of portraying the Tiger as a old tank and the Panther as the true German super tank. Mappers try their best to put T34/76s vs Tigers, but obviously no one knows how to use them effectively because they read too many books about how a German ace took out a battallion of tanks.
You don't read too many books about the Tigers that fell to simple tactics such as shooting the tracks, optics, and disabling the turret. But we can't have that, the Tiger is a superior tank even by todays standards!
I'm sorry, but the Tiger I was an infinitely superior tank when first deployed in combat in late 1942. There are way too many people here who base their "knowledge" off Saving Private Ryan and Medal Of Honor. I don't wish to sound smug, but PLEASE educate yourselves before making statements such as: "the German 75mm KwK 42 L/70 (installed on the Panther) was ballistically equal to the Soviet D-5T and later ZiS-S-53 85 mm cannons."
A very accurate resource with armour, cannon and ammunition data can be found here: http://gva.freeweb.hu/index.html
Here's a penetration table for a Tiger I against late-war Soviet armour (1944+). Providing that the Tiger was supposed to be withdrawn by this time, as you can clearly see it's still more than a fair rival even for the IS-2: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm (Go to Penetration Table 03).
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the tiger is not and will never be the "UBER" tank some people want it to be. its a precious peice of high technology( for that moment though) and if used properly it can survive through an entire match. the problem is that many people think its indestructable and so they use verry little tactics and expose themselves unnecessarily. and end up killed. i have experienced battles inside a tiger, that if they were real they would have been mentioned in history books ;p
i was driving one and the commander was a friend of mine, by using a good communication and teamwork we took out more than 15 ruskies and took more than 30 direct hits! here is the key to succes with tiger:
-a good driver that obeys your orders asap
-communication of enemy positions
-never go closer then 1 km to a possible enemy position
-never go in urban zones if avoidable
-driver must reposition tank between 2 shots toward the enemy
-send in smaller tanks to clear terrain, if not possible then don't go in
-expose as little of the tank as possible to the enemy
-when in formation, spread over the terrain. never in row
-think of it as a mobile at gun, long distance and immobility is your best friend
- when driving a russian tank, do the EXACT OPPOSITE as what is mentioned above!!
i was driving one and the commander was a friend of mine, by using a good communication and teamwork we took out more than 15 ruskies and took more than 30 direct hits! here is the key to succes with tiger:
-a good driver that obeys your orders asap
-communication of enemy positions
-never go closer then 1 km to a possible enemy position
-never go in urban zones if avoidable
-driver must reposition tank between 2 shots toward the enemy
-send in smaller tanks to clear terrain, if not possible then don't go in
-expose as little of the tank as possible to the enemy
-when in formation, spread over the terrain. never in row
-think of it as a mobile at gun, long distance and immobility is your best friend
- when driving a russian tank, do the EXACT OPPOSITE as what is mentioned above!!
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