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Beta Map The Blackest Day of July - PreFinal

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#21
Solo4114 said:
I just got done playing a round of it. I don't know if this was an issue with the team or what, but with 25 minutes left, the Germans were down to something like 18% reinforcements. You may want to take a look at the total reinforcement count for both sides and make sure they're enough that you can actually have a decent battle. Germans ran out of reinforcements with the Russians at about 83%.

Some of this may have been due to poor German teamwork (they didn't manage to hold a single objective), but in this round at least, the balance seemed to have tipped heavily in favor of the Russians. I'll have to play again with a more competent team to tell for sure but it struck me as REALLY odd that the Germans could lose reinforcements THAT quickly.

Question: does a Tank Commander count as 1.5 soldiers for reinforcement's sake? If so, that could be your problem right there. There were tons of tank commander positions available and we had at least 5 of them it seemed. Losing them in rapid succession would deplete reinforcements pretty quickly if that's the case. Probably better to limit it to at most 2 per team. The Panzer IIIs and Stugs are already fairly fragile it seems (a lot of them, even angled, were getting killed in one shot), and with people teaming, that's two kills per tank -- or 2.5 kills per tank if a commander is in there (or 3 per tank if two commanders are).

Again, this assumes that commanders count as more both for capping and for reinforcements. It just struck me as really really odd that the Germans would be SO short on reinforcements with so much time left on the clock. I can't imagine this is intentional.
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i like to try this map with my good team if i dont win after 2 rounds i am never going to play this map again. or put panthers on the map
 
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#26
Moz said:
I'm thinking of adding another forward spawn for the germans, once they have all the flanks for attacking the 5th guards line, does anyone thing that might be a bad idea?
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the ruskie spawn points are to near the last 2 flags the germans have to capture, so fresh russain tanks can move to the flags very fast as the t34 is :( sometimes i am in a tiger and there is always 5 or 6 t34s waiting for me. also the second german spawn point has a problem, enemy tanks can camp on the left side and shoot as we come out. the enemy can be right on top of the spawn no no no ;-( i like to go on your map with you and show you
 
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#28
I played this map a few times again this weekend, both as Russians and as Germans.

In all instances, German reinforcements were either completely depleted or were down to less than 8% by the end of the map. The one (yes, one) time I saw the Germans win, they won with about 5-6% left while the Russians were somewhere near 50%. Maybe 60%.

The big issues I see now that I've played the map a few times are as follows:

1.) The Germans run out of reinforcements VERY VERY quickly.

2.) The Russians' speed advantage allows them to eventually push up to the front of the map and kill Germans before they can even get to the first cap zones. In this sense, an additional forward German spawn might help. Or perhaps simply having the Germans spawn closer initially. This might make the initial fight less of a "once and done" fight, and might make the fight be more for the "no-man's land" between the flanks and the forward flanks.

3.) Engagement ranges generally benefit the Russians. The German tanks mostly have weak armor, with the exception of the lone Tiger on this map. Their main advantage is better guns and optics and the ability to engage and kill at far longer ranges than the Russians -- except that's not the case on this map where the engagement range seems to have dropped to about 500-600m as opposed to the up to 800m of previous versions (which let the Germans engage farther out where their armor could hold up and the Russians were still in jeopardy). What's more, the Tiger (which SHOULD be the great equalizer on this map) can't use its primary advantages of armor and the 88 as well when dealing with short-range engagements.


I think this map's got great potential, but right now it's just way too easy for the Russians. The previous version seemed a BIT easy for the Germans, but we've see-sawed well in the other direction with this version.

I think you can still give the map an overall gloomy/rainy feeling while increasing fog distance to around 700m at the high end (or 800m if it's currently at 700m). This would allow the Germans to engage at longer range and give them a fighting chance. That coupled with greater reinforcements for the Germans should do it.

With the reinforcements, honestly, reinforcements should not be a concern on this map. The way I see it, the map should be one hell of a big tank battle that should last the full duration of the round. You shouldn't be able to win it in 10 minutes under any circumstances outside of complete ineptness on the part of the Russian team. You should not under ANY circumstances be able to win by attrition, unless we're dealing with seriously inept and suicidal teams.
 
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#29
Done:
-Moved the Flanks closer to germans.
-Increased German respawns to 350 (was 100)
-Added More Pz4 to german team
-Fixed(?) pink lighting
-Increased view distance (now 40000 units)
-Doubled Tiger respawns.
-Removed many russian radio stations (served no purpose, too many radios caused overhead bugs)

Other secret features are in the works aswell.

server admins:

I'd like to have afew of the more popular servers host a public playtest on the next version so we don't have this horrible german/russian seesaw effect ever version. I also want to test some new experimental features without commiting to a solid release. Im thinking something this weekend.

PM me if you are interested.
 
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#34
I believe it means total number of times players on the team can respawn. Upping the numbers to 350 will mean (hopefully) that it's basically impossible for a team (unless it's really trying) to run out of reinforcements. This means the map will last until the positions are captured or will last the full time.

I'm hoping Moz's change list will balance the map finally. It SOUNDS like it will, although obviously some populated playtesting by public servers will be required. It may be that only some of the changes are needed (IE: the respawn increase and relocation of the flanks, without changing the Tiger/PzIV numbers). But that's something only relatively extensive playtesting will show.

Moz, I'd recommend also finding the forums of the various popular servers (FKMod, RTR, 2Manny's) and PMing the admins there.

WOLF is starting to get its server back in order but we're sorting some stuff out with default settings. Once we get up and running again and start populating the server fairly regularly, we might be up for running the next beta.

I also want to say thanks for being willing to address this stuff. I'm glad that you're committed to making the map a quality map that servers want to play instead of taking a "Take it or leave it" attitude. So....thanks! :)
 
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